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 Tunnels

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Fred Flintstone
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 8
Registration date : 2007-03-08

PostSubject: Tunnels   12/3/2007, 19:45

Can somebody please put the "tunnels" rumour to be please?
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soprano54
WOI
WOI
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Number of posts : 159
Age : 59
Localisation : Gloucestershire
Cap Badge : RTR
Places Served : Fallingbostel, Tidworth, Paderborn, Cyprus, Bovington, Hemer, NI, Coltishall, Incirlik, Benson
Registration date : 2007-03-10

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   12/3/2007, 20:06

Fred Flintstone wrote:
Can somebody please put the "tunnels" rumour to be please?

The only tunnels that were there were used for heating pipes, albiet they were big enough to walk through! 3 RTR were there from 79-86 and in one notable incident one of the Sqn's Fitter Sections was broken into and they had a lot of specialist REME tools (hammers - LOL!) stolen. The thieves had gained access to the their hangar by using one of these tunnels, even the SIB were baffled! Very Happy
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plant-pilot
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 22
Cap Badge : R.Sigs/RE
Places Served : Lippstadt, Gütersloh, Herford, Hameln
Registration date : 2007-03-08

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   12/3/2007, 20:17

Fred Flintstone wrote:
Can somebody please put the "tunnels" rumour to be please?

One ex-member of one of the units in Barker Bks, recently told me about the tunnels that supposedly went from there to Sennelager...... but I wasn't convinced.

My doubt came from the fact that he had also sworn on his life that he had seen the Panzer Tank buried just below the turf of the grass area between the two blocks in front of the Bde HQ. The same grass area that was excavated during the construction of a new dinning facility a few years back.... and guess what? That's right, no Tank.

There are 'massed grave', 'buried tank', 'tunnel' and 'bunker' stories for almost every ex Wehrmacht Kaserne that the British (and probably American, Canadian, French and Russian) took over. Very few of them seem to have any basis on fact at all.
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Webmaster Phil
WOII
WOII
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Number of posts : 92
Age : 37
Localisation : Fallingbostel
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Fallingbostel, Bielefeld
Registration date : 2007-03-08

PostSubject: Tunnels   18/5/2007, 09:35

We found a tunnel system at Rochdale (Mossbank) Barracks the other day. On heading down with our right-angled torches, we did the full circuit and found an empty beer can. There was no panzer division to be found anywhere.
Same sketch as above - heating pipes running through the length of the tunnels. I personally think they were made for ease of maintenance of the pipes. Rather than digging the road up every time a 1000 lbs bomb landed on your parade square, you could just head down the tunnel with a 12" adjustable.
However, a local historian friend of mine told me about the tunnels at Detmold. These were different. I'll let him tell the story in the Detmold part of the forum.
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tankie88
Private
Private


Number of posts : 1
Registration date : 2008-01-12

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   12/1/2008, 16:08

As S54 states there are only heating pipe tunnels under Barker.They are indeed deep down part of the old boiler room was in fact under 57 sta workshops.The newer part of the heating plant was above ground behind 57.As my german was quite good i'd often have a brew with one of the eric boilermen.He'd worked in barker since the year dot he informed me there were no underground tank parks and the like only the heating pipe tunnels.Although the far end of the square(where the new officers mess was built) used to be the scrapyard during WW2.While the foundations were being dug alsorts of junk was dug up tiger road wheels,track links and the like.
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   10/4/2008, 04:32

plant-pilot wrote:
Fred Flintstone wrote:
Can somebody please put the "tunnels" rumour to be please?

One ex-member of one of the units in Barker Bks, recently told me about the tunnels that supposedly went from there to Sennelager...... but I wasn't convinced.

My doubt came from the fact that he had also sworn on his life that he had seen the Panzer Tank buried just below the turf of the grass area between the two blocks in front of the Bde HQ. The same grass area that was excavated during the construction of a new dinning facility a few years back.... and guess what? That's right, no Tank.

There are 'massed grave', 'buried tank', 'tunnel' and 'bunker' stories for almost every ex Wehrmacht Kaserne that the British (and probably American, Canadian, French and Russian) took over. Very few of them seem to have any basis on fact at all.

There was a Panzer dug up in Baden-Baden by the Canadians. Some where around the air strip. I believe they only partialy dug it up then reburied. I did see pictures of it, taken by a PMQ brat, her dad was the Base Fire Chief.
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Shep
Cpl
Cpl


Number of posts : 10
Age : 58
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Menden, Paderborn, Soest
Registration date : 2008-07-31

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   31/7/2008, 12:45

I spent 3 years in Barker Bks in Paderborn and had also heard the stories about secret tunnels. It was as far as I´m concerned all fiction, the cellers underneath the Barrack Blocks were huge but there was no evidence of hidden doorways or stairs.
After leaving the Army I was working alongside an old German called Hans Portner, who sold MG/Austin Export Cars. This guy was amazing to say the least, he´d been a Tiger 1 Tank Commander in the second world war and had spent time in Paderborn/Sennelager, the guy was a mine of information.
I had to of course ask him about the Tunnels to which he said that it was indeed all fiction.
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Ian-redcap70
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt
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Number of posts : 65
Age : 86
Localisation : Brisbane, OZ
Cap Badge : RMP
Places Served : Bielefeld, Colchester
Registration date : 2007-08-16

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   31/7/2008, 20:34

Fiction or not, the stories we read on these pages reflect experiences which bring back memories to many of us and no doubt will continue to interest those who did not experience the events themselves!
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Wilf
Lt Col
Lt Col
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Number of posts : 314
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   24/10/2008, 09:50

We would sometimes discuss secret tunnels under Barker Barracks as we drank ourselves stupid in the bar of 53 Ord Coy which is in the attic of one of the blocks in Barker. Some people were convinced of the existence of such tunnels, personally I was always a sceptic. I do remember feint drawings on the outside corners of some of the blocks which supposedly went back to Wehrmacht days.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   13/8/2013, 16:08

Seeing as it's gone quiet I thought I'd throw this in. ( Nothing to do with tunnels!).

When we moved to Barker Bks, 10 HUSSARS were in residence, we got on well with them.
Not long after our arrival a story went around, probably picked up in NAAFI conversation.
The story went roughly as follows.
In the closing days of the war, the Canadians were advancing on Paderborn. Having heard that there was a SS unit in the town, the Canucks, (probably sick of smashing picturesque little towns up), offered to spare the place bombardment if the SS moved out.
The story went that the SS, predictably, refused to leave so in went the attack, only to find that the Nazis had scarpered anyway.
Certainly there were signs of some fighting in Barker Bks. Particularly one of the accn blocks, (2 Bty, Shelldrake).
I've often found that stories like this were based on real events, so I'm not dismissing this one as an "Urban Miff".
I wonder if our Canadian cousins have any info on that stage of the war ?
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj
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Number of posts : 767
Age : 68
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   13/8/2013, 16:59

Hi Brum
I do not do WW2 but studying post May 45 history need to look back to see who was where on VE day…sure our Canadian friends will confirm it was the Yanks not them…the 183 US Inf Div took Lippstadt and Paderborn…thanks to the Canadian Military archives have seen a map "Advance on the Northern Front 23 March to 22 April 1945" they were much further north
All the best
Steve
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1037
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   13/8/2013, 22:08

Having seen the relevant War Diaries for the 2nd Canadian Corps for May 1945 I support Steve's staement that no Canadian unit was in the Paderborn area in the final days of the War. 2nd Canadian Corps was heading for the Friesland Coast between Emden and Wilhemshaven, the APC Battalion , known as the Kangaroos were operating as part of 79 Armoured Division to the south west of Bremen and the Canadian Parachute Battalion was part of 6 Airborne Division whose objective was Wismar and thus creating a blocking force to prevent any Russian advance into Schleswig Holstein

There is an element of truth in the story however, I believe the remnants of an SS Panzer formation did attempt a desperate last ditch defence of the Albertsdorf area just to the north of Paderborn.


Last edited by JPW on 14/8/2013, 09:09; edited 1 time in total
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   13/8/2013, 22:21

Oh dear, it looks like the wheels are coming off this one already !

Thanks Steve, the Yanks were not known for their forbearance when given the opportunity to plaster a target with artillery fire, so it doesn't seem that the story hangs on them.

Thanks to JPW there does, however, seem to be a tenuous link to a real event that gave rise to the story.
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dandc
Lt Col
Lt Col
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Number of posts : 382
Age : 67
Localisation : gateshead
Cap Badge : 15/19H.ARMY AIR CORPS
Places Served : tidworth, fallingbostle, detmold, hongkong, minden
Registration date : 2009-05-22

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   14/8/2013, 16:38

On the welcome page of this site under "links" there was a site called The third riech in ruins, this site gave a link to a german site (sorry cant recall the name) all about underground bunkers/factories/tunnels etc, some of the stories we heard were true the others, well think what you will.
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
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Number of posts : 3001
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   21/8/2013, 12:50

brum wrote:
Seeing as it's gone quiet I thought I'd throw this in. ( Nothing to do with tunnel
Certainly there were signs of some fighting in Barker Bks. Particularly one of the accn blocks, (2 Bty, Shelldrake).


I remember those nights, normally after the NAAFI closed.drunken drunken 
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Pborn3
WOI
WOI
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Number of posts : 134
Age : 70
Localisation : Porta Westfalica
Cap Badge : RA
Places Served : Oswestry, Paderborn, Barnard Castle, Catterick, NI, Bristol, Cyprus, Munsterlager, NI,Sennelager , NI , Rge Control/STC Sennelager/ GSU Sennelager as Civvy
Registration date : 2013-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Tunnels   23/9/2013, 17:14

JPW There is an element of truth in the story however, I believe the remnants of an SS Panzer formation did attempt a desperate last ditch defence of the Albertsdorf area just to the north of Paderborn.

Suspect you mean Augustdorf about 20 Kms N of Paderborn - atop the Sennelager Training Area in front of a gap in the Teutoburger Ridge on the Detmold Road.
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