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 Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)

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arnie
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 9
Age : 51
Cap Badge : Queens Reg
Places Served : 5 QUEENS TA HASTINGS MILAN
Registration date : 2010-12-23

PostSubject: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   29/12/2010, 19:49

Hi All

I have owned my FV432, Reg No. 08 EA 81 for the last 3yrs. I have spent a lot of time and effort restoring it.
I would very much like to find any pictures and /or information of the vehicle when it was in active service.

From information I have currently found I know that it was in service with:

2 Scots Guards from July 1968 at Waterloo Barracks, Munster

1st Bn Welsh Guards. 16.03.70 at Waterloo Barracks, Munster

1 Welsh Guards (R Party), 18.10.71 at Munster

2 Scots Guards, 05.12.75 at Munster

The vehicle is shown yearly at the War & Peace Show in Kent and if anyone has any information or pictures that they can send to me I would be most grateful.

Thanks for your help
Richard
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alan8376
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 380
Age : 69
Localisation : Norfolk, UK
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   29/12/2010, 22:54

Was it a Petrol or diesel model? I was not with the regiment(s), but when I worked on 432's they were Petrol type in the mid sixties!
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1005
Age : 75
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   30/12/2010, 08:49

Richard

What a coincidence!!

I joined 2 SCOTS GUARDS LAD in Autumn 1968 and left the then 1 WELSH GUARDS LAD in May 1971 I must therefore have seen you vehicle on an almost daily basis.

Have house guests staying at present but will come back in due course with more thoughts, memories

Alan
By the late 60s the 4 GUARDS BRIGADE of FV430s was all diesel Richard's is therefore a Mark2 version
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arnie
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 9
Age : 51
Cap Badge : Queens Reg
Places Served : 5 QUEENS TA HASTINGS MILAN
Registration date : 2010-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   30/12/2010, 09:33

HI Alan & Alan

Thank you both for your replies.....I have been trying to get pictures and more information for nearly four years now.

My FV432 would have been a petrol engine in it's early years but has had a upgrade to diesel at some point. It is a Mark II now in it's present state. In 1983, whilst in storage at OD Antwerp, it was fitted for Clansman.

I will try to post some more history that I have later.

Alan, I am looking forward to hearing more of your memories in due course.

Thanks again

Richard
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arnie
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 9
Age : 51
Cap Badge : Queens Reg
Places Served : 5 QUEENS TA HASTINGS MILAN
Registration date : 2010-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   30/12/2010, 18:06

Hi All
Here is some more information that might help you,help me! find out any information on my FV432 08EA81 following on from 2 Scts Guards Munster.

18/05/77 VSD M' GLADBACH

12/11/77 3 ARMD DIV HQ & SIG REGT

07/12/82 4 ARMD DIV HQ & SIG REGT (HERFORD)

23/02/83 VSD OD ANTWERP

16/05/83 OD ANTWERP (FITTED FOR CLANSMAN)

03/08/83 42 FD SQN RE BAOR (HAMELN)

20/02/84 42 FD SQN/35 ENGR REGT (HAMELN)

26/11/92 OP GRAPPLE ENGR FD SQ 2 (BOSNIA)

17/04/95 OP GRAPPLE ARMD RECCE SQUADRON

03/04/95 VEHICLE DEPOT LUDGERSHALL

19/10/95 ABRO BOVINGTON PLANNED REPAIR

22/08/96 CBT ENGR SCHOOL 3 RSME REGT

25/01/01 CBT ENGR SCHOOL QM & MED CENTRE

01/10/03 DSDC ASHCHURCH

21/01/04 SOLD WITHAM(STRUCK OFF,BUT NOT FORGOTTEN.(NOW IN SAFE HANDS!!!!!)

Hope this might jog somebodies memory!!?


Thanks again,

Richard
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   2/1/2011, 22:45

alan8376 wrote:
Was it a Petrol or diesel model? I was not with the regiment(s), but when I worked on 432's they were Petrol type in the mid sixties!

Putting my pedantic hat on for a minute.

Petrol was the B 80 engine (good for igniting unwary cam nets).

Diesel was the K60 engine ""K" indicating Multi-fuel. It was supposed to run on petrol, diesel or (I think) avtur. Before this could happen adjustments were to be made to the FIP. We only ever used diesel on our Mk2/1s, apparently the multi-fuel concept was a non-starter for some reason.

Do any of you REME chaps know the reason ?
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   5/1/2011, 11:44

Those old 432's had some life span Richard.
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PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   5/1/2011, 18:15

brum wrote:
alan8376 wrote:
Was it a Petrol or diesel model? I was not with the regiment(s), but when I worked on 432's they were Petrol type in the mid sixties!

Putting my pedantic hat on for a minute.

Petrol was the B 80 engine (good for igniting unwary cam nets).

Diesel was the K60 engine ""K" indicating Multi-fuel. It was supposed to run on petrol, diesel or (I think) avtur. Before this could happen adjustments were to be made to the FIP. We only ever used diesel on our Mk2/1s, apparently the multi-fuel concept was a non-starter for some reason.

Do any of you REME chaps know the reason ?

That is and interesting question. I've served with many units which had 432's and Bedfords MK's and I've never seen any attempt made to test the multi-fuel capability using petrol.Perhaps it would have worked. Adjustment to the FIP,if my memory serves me right,was just a matter of pushing in a secured pin located on the pump drive. We used to get rid of buckshee petrol and kero in jerry cans, by dumping them in the 432 fuel tank. I am sure that during night time refuelling exercises some 432's were replened with petrol in the same way that Land Rovers were found next day to be running on a mixture of petrol and diesel
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   6/1/2011, 19:41


It never occurred to me that the MK had a multi-fuel capability. That cold start facility was a blessing though.

We used to love that dinky little dipstick on the 432 FIP. I know it was self-lubricating because of the petrol option.

I suppose the multi-fuel idea was doomed from the outset, seeing as the Chieftain only burned diesel (and gearbox oil Rolling Eyes )
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PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   8/1/2011, 00:57

Speaking of Petrol and the 432. The crew of one decided to give the interior a complete clean down using petrol,then quickly afterwards brought it to the LAD to have some welding done in the back. One strike of the arc welding road and the weld was thrown through the rear door and left in a daze.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   8/1/2011, 21:46


We were driving back to Paderborn in a Saracen command post, after an exercise.
It came over my headset that there was smoke coming from somewhere in the engine. When I asked if they wanted me to stop I was told to keep going. Later, glancing over my shoulder, I saw that all the crew had their respirators on, anything but delay getting back to camp !
Eventually flames were spotted and I was told to stop. I checked and saw that the fluid coupling was on fire.
I got back in with two "Pyrene" fire extinguishers (the sort you had to pump like a grease gun) and put the fire out.
Having been dragged out of the vehicle I found that the world had gone white, such was the effect of the fire extinguisher fluid, (which I think may have been Carbon Tetrachloride). In mid-stagger I was grabbed by one of the blokes just as a Woofer went roaring past. Another second and I would have been a very flat soldier. Shocked
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alan8376
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 380
Age : 69
Localisation : Norfolk, UK
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   8/1/2011, 22:37

Of course we know what Carbon Tet fire extinguishers produce when set off at a fire in confined spaces? Yep. you got it correct first time. It is a 'nerve gas!'
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PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   9/1/2011, 15:30

alan8376 wrote:
Of course we know what Carbon Tet fire extinguishers produce when set off at a fire in confined spaces? Yep. you got it correct first time. It is a 'nerve gas!'
CTC, nicknamed Rot Gut, was a standard item issued in the LAD for removing the heavy preservative grease from parts. One of our men decided one Saturday morning when everything was closed down, to to take his car over the inspection pit inside the workshop building, and give it a good clean down underneath,using CTC. Luckilly for him one of the lads paid a visit to the workshop, and found him almost knocked out in the pit.
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PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   9/1/2011, 17:22

We used CTC regularly for cleaning teleprinters and related equipments..The stuff we had came in half litre bottles...Don`t know if anyone tried drinking it or not Laughing
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   9/1/2011, 22:16


CTC was stained red to prevent the men, who had found it was good for cleaning uniforms, from pinching it.

Much later I heard that the stuff is carcinogenic.
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   10/1/2011, 15:40

brum wrote:

It never occurred to me that the MK had a multi-fuel capability. That cold start facility was a blessing though.

We used to love that dinky little dipstick on the 432 FIP. I know it was self-lubricating because of the petrol option.

I suppose the multi-fuel idea was doomed from the outset, seeing as the Chieftain only burned diesel (and gearbox oil Rolling Eyes )

But I thought chieftan WAS a multi fuel vehicle Brum?
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   11/1/2011, 10:52



But I thought chieftan WAS a multi fuel vehicle Brum?[/quote]


I remember it was also a vertically opposed two stroke engine, Jim but made by Leyland, (as opposed to Rolls-Royce on the 430 series vehs.).

I think it would've stuck in my mind if it HAD been multi-fuel.

I think I must, again, call for BLUEBELL assistance on this one ! study
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1005
Age : 75
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   11/1/2011, 11:22

Strictly speaking fuel was a PLAYTIME/RICKSHAW matter with BLUEBELL becomig involved only whem a pack li was require to flush out the complete fuel system following contamination

Howver I am inclined to support the line that Chieftain and subsequently Challenger always operated in a diesel mode

Back to the RASC/RAOC experts!!
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BobG
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Number of posts : 327
Age : 78
Localisation : Northumberland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   11/1/2011, 16:25

JPW is correct. Without being too technical, the L60 engine in Chieftain was not a multi fuel engine, the compression pressures and supercharging made this very difficult if not impossible without great loss of power. Challengers CV12 engine is a pure diesel engine. The multi fuel concept was a good idea but fraught with difficulties due to the basic characteristics of the two fuels, diesel is made to ignite under high compession pressure and petrol to resist igniting under pressure. The higher the Octain number of petrol the better it resists preignition under pressure, diesel is rated in cetane numbers which indicates its ability to self ignite under pressure. The K series engines were multi fuel but very inefficient when using petrol or avtur resulting in loss of power. Hope this explains a bit what is a complex subject.

Bob
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alan8376
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 380
Age : 69
Localisation : Norfolk, UK
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   11/1/2011, 19:10

I think the Multi-Fuel project was muted when the Army Chiefs realised there wern't many 'Chip Shops' in the DDR to fill up from when we advanced repelling the Shock Army attack!!
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arnie
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Number of posts : 9
Age : 51
Cap Badge : Queens Reg
Places Served : 5 QUEENS TA HASTINGS MILAN
Registration date : 2010-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   11/1/2011, 22:15

Hi Guys

It's really great & interesting to hear all of your memories, thoughts and information about FV432's, however, I'm still very hopeful that one of you will have a photo album with a picture of my 432 (Reg No. 08 EA 81) in it.

Thanks again

Regards

Richard

PS. Alan (JPW) just wondered if you had had any luck finding anything in your archives / old photo albums?
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PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   11/1/2011, 23:01

The stuff we had was clear and i now remember that it was a good stain remover..Didn`t know it could cause cancer though.
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PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   12/1/2011, 02:19

arnie wrote:
Hi Guys

It's really great & interesting to hear all of your memories, thoughts and information about FV432's, however, I'm still very hopeful that one of you will have a photo album with a picture of my 432 (Reg No. 08 EA 81) in it.

Thanks again

Regards

Richard

PS. Alan (JPW) just wondered if you had had any luck finding anything in your archives / old photo albums?

Hope something turns up Arnie, meanwhile try looking through the Scots Guards online Magazine, many old pics turn up in these magazines.
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PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   12/1/2011, 02:25

Gordon. wrote:
The stuff we had was clear and i now remember that it was a good stain remover..Didn`t know it could cause cancer though.

Yes our stuff was also clear,and I believe that 'Dab-It-Off " contained the same material.CTC was also used widely in lauderies in the dry cleaning process.
Probably the Services was the last to be warned/or take heed of these potentially dangerous substances. Once a nurse back in the UK was horrified to hear that the issue of Codeine tablets was still commonplace in the Army.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Trying to find photograph/information on FV432 (Reg 08EA81)   12/1/2011, 08:42

brum wrote:

CTC was stained red to prevent the men, who had found it was good for cleaning uniforms, from pinching it.

Much later I heard that the stuff is carcinogenic.

My error. Rolling Eyes

I should have said, the fluid in the "Pyrene" extinguishers was dyed red.

Similarly, didn't they add a dye to the old petrol (MT 74) ?
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