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 FV 430 SERIES AFV

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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1005
Age : 75
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: FV 430 SERIES AFV   12/3/2011, 16:32

I am currently tidying up a contribution to thiis site in response to an earlier query on the history of a Munster based FV432 but need to check som basic facts

The FV 430 was the Battle Taxo of BAOR in the late 1960s/70s/80s with the FV432 as the most common This originally, in its most basic form, was capable of carrying an Infantry Section plus dedicated driver. However it could be adapted to act as a Company, Battalion (or equivalent)
HQ Command Post, Ambulance, mortar platform etc but retaining the basic fix

Othervariations included
FV 433 (Artillery) with turret mounted gun (Abbott)
FV 434 (REME) with small hydraulic crane
FV 439 with Swingfire anti tank guided missile

Wikipedia gives more detailed history of the 430 Series vehicles. However I seem to remember there was also a Command version for use at Brigade and Divisional level with complex secure radio fit which had a high priority repair classification. I found no mention of this (or any Sapper (minelaying variant?)). Was this regarded as merely a basic 432 with enhanced comminication facitities?

Help please from our more knowledgeable correspondents, including the numerous Staff Clerks, Sappers,Royal Signals and REME who must have worked in or on these vehicles at some stage of their military careers
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BobG
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Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   12/3/2011, 19:47

Peter,
A few to add: FV 431 - Utility/load carrying, never made it into full service.
FV 435 - Wavell Comms
FV 436 - Cymberline radar.
FV 437 - REs Pathfinder, replaced by all singing/dancing veh - forgot name !!!
FV 438 - Swingfire replaced by CVR(T) - FV 102 Striker
FV 439 - Command veh

FV 432-30 - 432 with Fox turret and 30mm raden.
Hope this helps a bit, blowed if I can remember the name of the 437 replacement - a hydraulic nightmare. Was involved in the early swimming trials of the 437 at FTB Instow, had a rocket launched anchor on the roof to aid exiting awkward river banks, swam with about 3 inches of freeboard - dodgy!!
Bob


Last edited by BobG on 13/3/2011, 09:59; edited 1 time in total
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Teabag
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   12/3/2011, 20:53

Might get shot down in flames for this but to me it was always just 432 at Brigade HQ. Lots of batteries and lots of radios. In my case Larkspur C42's and one C11 HF. There was G Ops, Plans, Sig Ops. Was there another? All came together under a cruxiform tent type thing. (dead technical me Very Happy )

Not 100% sure but think the 434 was the radio relay one with attached clarke mast and cable reel. Very worrying this, my memory is going and I am only 60.
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brum
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Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   12/3/2011, 22:16


While the world turns on the correct spelling of a condensed milk sandwich, nonetheless, I find myself, again, in agreement with He of the Wirral, The Teabag.

I remember, back in the Crimea, how we used to approach, with dread, the Great Cruciform at Brigade and deposit our Battery commander therein. This would leave me, as SUNRAY MINOR responsible for firing a Field Battery, if required. (A pimply adolescent should not be left with such power !)

We of the Peasantry only used C45/C42, B47/B48 in our crude communications but I recall our PRONTO friends used to huddle over their Rear Link C11, administering to the gods that in turn, ruled them. We were allowed a receiver to pick up the Met though, I think that was a R209. (Please correct me if I've got that wrong).

We Cannon Fodder used the Larkspur radios in our (then), beautifully new, FV432 Mk2A vehs. Mine was delivered with a mileage of 18 miles on the clock, sublime !
They came as a basic vehicle, with a conversion kit which adapted them to the Command Post role.
I was one of the first from our regiment that did the course at Bovington to familiarise us with these vehicles, so different from the Saracen Command Post RA.

I remember we had to go to Wyke Regis to do the Flotatation phase of the course. It took a lot of discipline to stay in the driver's seat ,as the flotation screen bulged in as we dropped into the water ! affraid


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brum
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Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   12/3/2011, 22:20


FV 432-30 - 432 with Fox turret and 30mm raden.


The Irish Rangers, our neighbours in Hemer, had the FV 432-30 in the mid-70s.
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Teabag
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   12/3/2011, 22:39

R210 Brum but I had to look it up. Like lots of things, some of us lumped it all together and called it the C11 and took it as read that the receiver was part of it.

Used to listen to commercial radio on it when bored. Were using it voice on one FTX and some bright spark (no pun) decided to send the code words for go to CW. Mass panic as most of us had never used Morse after training. Chaos ensued so we went back to voice! Strangely later in life when I took up amateur radio, I only liked using Morse.

C11 was extremely noisy with the fans especially on transmit.

Not so sure you would be Sunray Minor. Sunray that location for the RA maybe?

How is Lord Kitchener these days?
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
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Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   12/3/2011, 22:58

Teabag wrote:
R210 Brum but I had to look it up. Like lots of things, some of us lumped it all together and called it the C11 and took it as read that the receiver was part of it.

Used to listen to commercial radio on it when bored. Were using it voice on one FTX and some bright spark (no pun) decided to send the code words for go to CW. Mass panic as most of us had never used Morse after training. Chaos ensued so we went back to voice! Strangely later in life when I took up amateur radio, I only liked using Morse.

C11 was extremely noisy with the fans especially on transmit.

Not so sure you would be Sunray Minor. Sunray that location for the RA maybe?

How is Lord Kitchener these days?

SUNRAY MINOR was the title for the poor bugger left holding the baby when the Battery Commander (SUNRAY) buggered off to the bloody cruciform for G&Ts with the Brig.

(Firing a six-gun battery, at age 19, can be quite orgasmic !).

Lord Roberts was our gaffer.
Lord Kitchener should never have got on board the "Hampshire"

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BobG
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Number of posts : 327
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Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   13/3/2011, 09:46

AhHa, amazing what a nights sleep does for the memory - sometimes. FV 437 replacement was the CET (Combat Engineer Tractor). The FV434 was definitely the REME version fitted with CALM and space to carry a L60 or K60 power pack, spent many hours in one following the QOH around waiting for them to cock things up mechanically. I believe the REs used a standard 432 towing a mine laying trailer to lay bar mines, mines were fed down a chute from the 432 to the trl which laid them automatically, perhaps our RE bretheren can clarify this.
Bob
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   13/3/2011, 10:50

BobG wrote:
AhHa, amazing what a nights sleep does for the memory - sometimes. FV 437 replacement was the CET (Combat Engineer Tractor). The FV434 was definitely the REME version fitted with CALM and space to carry a L60 or K60 power pack, spent many hours in one following the QOH around waiting for them to cock things up mechanically. I believe the REs used a standard 432 towing a mine laying trailer to lay bar mines, mines were fed down a chute from the 432 to the trl which laid them automatically, perhaps our RE bretheren can clarify this.
Bob

Bob
Absolutely correct and the Stalwart would re-supply the AFV 432 in the 1970s each RE field troop would have 4 x AFV 432s one per section + Tp HQ a Ferret and a Stalwart…the Combat Engineer Tractor was held by the field squadron support troop and called up as required
Steve (33C)
cheers
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Teabag
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   13/3/2011, 11:39

439 apparently for radio relay. This one was after my time. Think our sets were C70's but not sure what these carried?


http://www.fv432.co.uk/wwwfv432couk/variants/Fv439%20ptarmiganradiorelay.htm
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Shelldrake
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   13/3/2011, 15:18

[. The FV434 was definitely the REME version fitted with CALM and space to carry a L60 or K60 power pack)


And if I remember correctly, that was where the Tiffy had his bedspace! Shocked Shocked
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BobG
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Number of posts : 327
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Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   13/3/2011, 15:28

At 1st Line we could not waste space on power packs when quality kipping space was more important, 434 with all mod cons was vital to our well being.
Bob
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Shelldrake
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   13/3/2011, 19:45

Very Happy Very Happy. One or two of the more enterprising had a shower running up the crane - any b****** can rough it.
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bob
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   13/3/2011, 19:53

FV434 had a Hiab crane , Tiffys ( well the ones I knew) had a 430 Mk1 with 2 radio sets and being a Tiffy had a home from home in the thing , FV434 was usually commanded by a Sgt or Cpl.
RE FV432 towed a Bar mine layer .
FV180/CET ...had a problem with the buckets splitting..... posted in 1983 to the re-forming 23 Eng Regt , got given a hull and told to order what I needed to get the thing working.I'd only just been on a CET Course at Boredom.Once all the part arrived it took 2 of us 5 months to get it up and running including a full re-wire.
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   14/3/2011, 03:14

Behind the removable rear tow hook bar on the 434 was a storage space mainly for the 440 Volt electric tools. Many outside of the REME were not familiar with this compartment, and before an exercise, out came the electric tools and in went a few crates of beer.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   15/3/2011, 11:09

Teabag wrote:
439 apparently for radio relay. This one was after my time. Think our sets were C70's but not sure what these carried?


http://www.fv432.co.uk/wwwfv432couk/variants/Fv439%20ptarmiganradiorelay.htm

We had a couple of 439's in HQ 20 Teabag, they were used for step up and rebro mainly
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   15/3/2011, 11:32

Gentlemen, thank you for your authoritive accurate responses

Bob G Exactly what I was hoping for, an accurate concise list of all the variants, how many did you work on during your long military career?

Brum, Shelldrake , Steve, Teabag and others. Thank you for fleshing out the detail with the customary mix of humour and fact. Never got near the holy sanctum of the Brigade cruciform as a mere Logistian was never allowed closer than AQ (REAR).

An after thought just goes to show the wealth of experience and knowledge available on this site, beats Wikipedia any day.

Final, final thought. The responses clearly showed the REME Tiffys were more than capable of looking after their own interests and were warm and dry on any FTX. The ASM had a bunk space in either the Tels Repair or Machy wagon. Spare a thought therefore for the EME who had to camp out in the back of a quarter ton trailer if he was lucky!!
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Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   15/3/2011, 16:55

JPW
The provision of EMEs and other junior REME Officers kipping facilities was always an initiative test and part of their education. Those more experienced, commisioned or not, had already learnt that any mug can be uncomfortable and took appropriate steps to secure suitable comforts. Worked on quite few but not all 430 variants at 1st and 2nd line.
BobG
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brum
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   15/3/2011, 17:13

BobG wrote:
JPW
The provision of EMEs and other junior REME Officers kipping facilities was always an initiative test and part of their education. Those more experienced, commisioned or not, had already learnt that any mug can be uncomfortable and took appropriate steps to secure suitable comforts. Worked on quite few but not all 430 variants at 1st and 2nd line.
BobG

On arrival in Hohne with QOH in '70, I was presented with a 432 Mk 1 (because nobody else knew what the hell to do with it ). Looking in the back it was found that the thing was kitted out in the ambulance role, as in fitted stretchers, every squaddy's dream !

Alas, the Squadron Leader at the time believed in leading from the rear. The stretchers were removed and a tac map board and a supply of gin installed instead.

This lasted up to the wet & windy night that an irate Brigadier burst in and demanded of the hapless Major "Why aren't you in your damn tenk ?".

The armoured officer's mess disappeared and I was moved to Recce Troop. Shame that. Sad
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alan8376
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   15/3/2011, 20:22

Plenty of 430 series on Yorkshire News TV this evening. All at a knock down price..
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   16/3/2011, 01:07

alan8376 wrote:
Plenty of 430 series on Yorkshire News TV this evening. All at a knock down price..
Perhaps the titled lady from one of my former units can now have her 432 to drive around her estate,what?
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   16/3/2011, 18:14

Were you with the RSDG, Gallahad? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   17/3/2011, 10:07

I'd hate to pay the cost of fuel to drive one of them around. what sort of MPG do they get?
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   17/3/2011, 10:31

jim wrote:
I'd hate to pay the cost of fuel to drive one of them around. what sort of MPG do they get?

I'm pretty sure we had to use 15 mpg on road and 5 mpg x-country when working out fuel averages, Jim

(I seem to remember that the Centurion did 1 mpg !).
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PostSubject: Re: FV 430 SERIES AFV   17/3/2011, 10:37

Jim

With the current cost of diesel you will be selling your Corps Commanders residence to pay for any fuel incurred for the FV 432 you use as your unofficial runabout round the country lanes of Warwickshires
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