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 "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"

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brian beckett
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 48
Age : 78
Cap Badge : rasc
Places Served : Tower of London(initially in Royal Fusiliers) Aldershot, Sennelager & RAF Bruggen
Registration date : 2009-02-04

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   23/3/2011, 18:59

ALAN.BREAKSPEAR wrote:
Hello Mike_2817, It was National Service Time the year 1959. Thanks for your reply,i still don't know why we had to take the items with us when going into hospital."somebody must know", everybody had to have them. Alan.

Most National Servicemen will recall with amusement, but with intense frustration then, that there were two ways of looking at army prceedures; the army way and the sensible way.
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recce83
Capt
Capt
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Number of posts : 201
Age : 78
Localisation : Peachland British Columbia, Canada
Cap Badge : Black Watch of Canada
Places Served : 4 CIBG Soest and Werl 1957-1965, Camp Borden, Camp Gagetown
Registration date : 2009-06-04

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   24/3/2011, 21:17

Then there were those "walking out" hospital monkey suits consisting of an ill-fitting blue jacket, red tie, white shirt and trousers. I was admitted to hospital in 1957 with measles and was duly issued said clothing, despite being in quarantine. Oh well, the red tie would have matched the blotches on my face had I been free to roam.

I tell this story to illustrate the fact that the Canadian Army could be as stupid as any other.
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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 966
Age : 84
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   25/3/2011, 05:52

Royal Signals Depot Regt, Pocklington, 1951 ... newly promoted Cipher Corporal, full of Pomp and Circumstance ... First time I did Orderly Cpl had to make out the Sick Report ... Imagine a camp full of us Nig Nog's going out and a whole bunch of Time Expired getting out ... Don't forget to make out the Sick Report in duplicate for each man... and that's what I did, about 50 guys malingering looking for a steady 'take 1 number 9 and see me in the morning', and me poor sod filling out about a hundred Sick Reports, yes one for each man in duplicate ... no one told me to fill the whole bloody form with as many as I could ... first and last time I made that mistake .

Len (Ciphers)
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PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   25/3/2011, 08:18

I had forgotten about those bloody reports.They were the proverbial pain in the a*rse.One for each man??? Embarassed .I always hed my doubts about cypher ops. Very Happy
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   25/3/2011, 08:19

Shelldrake wrote:
Brum, it was your Holdall - the green/white fing wot you wrapped around your waist for holding your washing and shaving kit. Mad

I thought we called that a "Housewife" Shelldrake?
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   25/3/2011, 08:43

jim wrote:
Shelldrake wrote:
Brum, it was your Holdall - the green/white fing wot you wrapped around your waist for holding your washing and shaving kit. Mad

I thought we called that a "Housewife" Shelldrake?

He's right Jim.

The Holdall was a well-designed bit of kit, used as Shelldrake so lyrically described it.

The Housewife held spare buttons, cotton, wool, for darning socks, (that'll confuse some of the younger readers !), and needles.
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gingerjim
Col
Col


Number of posts : 487
Cap Badge : raoc
Places Served : blackdown brackley , belgium . viersen
Registration date : 2011-03-21

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   25/3/2011, 19:31

in my mind the acc did not even have cooks let alone officers , ginger
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"john boy"
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 939
Age : 55
Localisation : shrewsbury
Cap Badge : acc
Places Served : aldershot/albermarle bks ouston-father LI- gib- berlin NI- lemgo- colchester- shrewsbury-tidworth left82
Registration date : 2010-12-30

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   25/3/2011, 20:21

gingerjim wrote:
in my mind the acc did not even have cooks let alone officers , ginger

CAN YOU COOK? Evil or Very Mad lol! OH sorry do not wish to OFFEND Twisted Evil lol!
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   26/3/2011, 00:46

ginger jim wrote:
in my mind the acc did not even have cooks let alone officers , ginger

Funny how an empty tummy loses arguments, I found out in the trade. Razz

I well remember in Germany in 72 while still in the RTG Op trade one of the Radio Relay Det.. was to go out to set up in an isolated position as usual. They went to draw their rations from the cooks. The Det. Comd. was quite out spoken in telling the M/Cpl cook that he felt he was being shortened on his draw. The rations allotted to him were taken back and what was allowed per man per day was laid out for him under the supervision of the Cook Sgt. Needless to say it was no where near what he initially got. As they left his two men in his Detachment were heard to be telling him just what sort of parentage he had. The next day on re-supply he got his extras. A lesson that always stayed with me when I re-mustered into the trade


Last edited by Hardrations on 10/4/2011, 13:54; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   10/4/2011, 05:05

Whilst on the Army Catering theme. Warrant Officers in the ACC were given the official title of 'CATERER' Correct?

As for ACC officers would they have 'cheffing' skills? bounce

From my Army Apprentice days, I think the Army cooks served chips with everything, probably stll do, although I expect a lot of army catering is now done by 'civvies.'
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   10/4/2011, 13:56

Beachley Boy wrote:
As for ACC officers would they have 'cheffing' skills? bounce
.'

Many of our Base Foods Officers were commisions from the ranks. Some fine cooks among them.
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"john boy"
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 939
Age : 55
Localisation : shrewsbury
Cap Badge : acc
Places Served : aldershot/albermarle bks ouston-father LI- gib- berlin NI- lemgo- colchester- shrewsbury-tidworth left82
Registration date : 2010-12-30

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   10/4/2011, 15:41

Beachley Boy wrote:
Whilst on the Army Catering theme. Warrant Officers in the ACC were given the official title of 'CATERER' Correct?

As for ACC officers would they have 'cheffing' skills? bounce

From my Army Apprentice days, I think the Army cooks served chips with everything, probably stll do, although I expect a lot of army catering is now done by 'civvies.'

their called French fries lol!
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
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Number of posts : 3001
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   10/4/2011, 18:54

That's not what we called them. We called them "What the ***** this"! Very Happy Very Happy
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"john boy"
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 939
Age : 55
Localisation : shrewsbury
Cap Badge : acc
Places Served : aldershot/albermarle bks ouston-father LI- gib- berlin NI- lemgo- colchester- shrewsbury-tidworth left82
Registration date : 2010-12-30

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   10/4/2011, 19:49

Shelldrake wrote:
That's not what we called them. We called them "What the ***** this"! Very Happy Very Happy

it was a case what you saw is what you got so it was army chips ,army beans ,army eggs, army bacon,army sausage,army chicken,army bread, now F""" off and eat it the army way!!!!!!!! lol!
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TDivers
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 65
Cap Badge : Former Royal Engineer
Places Served : Munsterlager, Hohne, Sennelager, Nienburg, Osnabruck
Registration date : 2011-03-30

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   11/4/2011, 07:25

Beachley Boy wrote:
Whilst on the Army Catering theme. Warrant Officers in the ACC were given the official title of 'CATERER' Correct?

As for ACC officers would they have 'cheffing' skills? bounce

From my Army Apprentice days, I think the Army cooks served chips with everything, probably stll do, although I expect a lot of army catering is now done by 'civvies.'

Many of the Units now are using Pay as you Dine. Basically no more monthly deductions from your wages and 3 square meals a day. The contract has been taken over in the UK by a company called Sodexho....
Not sure who it is in BFG but it is the same pay as you dine.

Basically it Civvy run but still using Military cooks and from my experience in the UK it is terrible. Everything is portioned and the food the catering corp guys have to work with is lower standard. Gone are the days of helping yourself to food.
No more requirements to go and eat Breakfast in fact no more requirements to go and eat in the Mess area.
Most guys now go to Macdonalds for a healthy meal......
A lot forgo breakfast..... and a few are skint by the last week in the month so thats where the problems are.

Not the best system but everyone was complaining about the old system.

Personally I think the old way was the best as you were guaranteed food.
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
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Number of posts : 3001
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   11/4/2011, 08:38

Tdivers, I agree with all you say. "You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"", more eradication of the good old days! Sad
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   11/4/2011, 10:04

From time-to-time people ask me "do you miss the army?" My answer is that I miss the army that I was in. I certainly couldn't function in today's Man's Army, (oops, Person's Army !).

This catering malarkey that's being aired at the moment leaves me gobsmacked to be honest.

When I were a lad, in Junior Leaders, you were marched to the cookhouse where you waited, in three ranks, till you were called in. You then walked along a counter with a plate in your hand and whatever was the culinary delight of the day, proceded to be slapped on it. You didn't complain.

While on transit, in early '59, at Woolwich, we went into the cookhouse one day and before us was spread a feast fit for a king. There was a selection of food and you could choose what you wanted from it. We were told that it was an experiment but, as everyone now knows, the system was soon adopted throughout the army.

I honestly can't imagine how the system that's presently being discussed can be allowed to take place.

Top scran in my day ? The Royal Air Force won it every time.
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   11/4/2011, 10:51

It will always be food that is the first thing that any institution, " Military, Hospital, Personal care homes, etc" that is cut back on in so called money saving efforts. Civilian contractors in the military are there to make money. They don't give a rats ass about the troops. Contracting is just reverting to 1800's methodology. Didn't work all that well then, why would it now? Same game, different name.
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   11/4/2011, 15:03

TDivers wrote:
Beachley Boy wrote:
Whilst on the Army Catering theme. Warrant Officers in the ACC were given the official title of 'CATERER' Correct?

As for ACC officers would they have 'cheffing' skills? bounce

From my Army Apprentice days, I think the Army cooks served chips with everything, probably stll do, although I expect a lot of army catering is now done by 'civvies.'

Many of the Units now are using Pay as you Dine. Basically no more monthly deductions from your wages and 3 square meals a day. The contract has been taken over in the UK by a company called Sodexho....
Not sure who it is in BFG but it is the same pay as you dine.

Basically it Civvy run but still using Military cooks and from my experience in the UK it is terrible. Everything is portioned and the food the catering corp guys have to work with is lower standard. Gone are the days of helping yourself to food.
No more requirements to go and eat Breakfast in fact no more requirements to go and eat in the Mess area.
Most guys now go to Macdonalds for a healthy meal......
A lot forgo breakfast..... and a few are skint by the last week in the month so thats where the problems are.

Not the best system but everyone was complaining about the old system.

Personally I think the old way was the best as you were guaranteed food.

I've got to agree with that, I'm shocked each year when we have our re-union at Kineton, at how empty the cookhouse is, and how different it all is. The food is OK, but no great quantity, and I'm no fan of sodhexo at all
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Teabag
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Number of posts : 960
Age : 67
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   11/4/2011, 17:35

TDivers wrote:
Beachley Boy wrote:
Whilst on the Army Catering theme. Warrant Officers in the ACC were given the official title of 'CATERER' Correct?

As for ACC officers would they have 'cheffing' skills? bounce

From my Army Apprentice days, I think the Army cooks served chips with everything, probably stll do, although I expect a lot of army catering is now done by 'civvies.'

Many of the Units now are using Pay as you Dine. Basically no more monthly deductions from your wages and 3 square meals a day. The contract has been taken over in the UK by a company called Sodexho....
Not sure who it is in BFG but it is the same pay as you dine.

Basically it Civvy run but still using Military cooks and from my experience in the UK it is terrible. Everything is portioned and the food the catering corp guys have to work with is lower standard. Gone are the days of helping yourself to food.
No more requirements to go and eat Breakfast in fact no more requirements to go and eat in the Mess area.
Most guys now go to Macdonalds for a healthy meal......
A lot forgo breakfast..... and a few are skint by the last week in the month so thats where the problems are.

Not the best system but everyone was complaining about the old system.


Personally I think the old way was the best as you were guaranteed food.


Healthy? Christ it must be bad! Mad Private contractors = Profits = cuts = Glad I am not in any longer!
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 3001
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   11/4/2011, 17:42

I'm no fan of them either, Jim. I was a Civil Servant from 87 - 97 then we were Privatised and taken over by Sodexo, when a member of staff left they didn't replace them and we were expected to cover the gap. This in itself was no big deal but Sodexo were paid by the MOD (Taxpayer) to employ a specific number of people, how they squared away the shortfall I don't know.
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TDivers
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Number of posts : 65
Cap Badge : Former Royal Engineer
Places Served : Munsterlager, Hohne, Sennelager, Nienburg, Osnabruck
Registration date : 2011-03-30

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   12/4/2011, 05:28



I've got to agree with that, I'm shocked each year when we have our re-union at Kineton, at how empty the cookhouse is, and how different it all is. The food is OK, but no great quantity, and I'm no fan of sodhexo at all[/quote]

Sodhexo wasnt on my top list of prioritys when i was in. I was a lviing in Cpl and actively took part in Messing meetings etc...There were lots of problems and no solutions even attempted. Meals were physically dished out bye the guys in the cookhouse.

If you looked at what you were entitled to it was a joke.....my favourite point to bring up was Carbs....technically by the paperwork on the wall you could have as carb as you wanted so the likes of Rice Pasta was all meant to not be portioned/rationed. Every time i went to the cookhouse i would ask the chefs on duty for more...everytime the answer i would get would be sorry but we only have so many portions so cant give you anymore(not the chefs fault).

So evertime there was a messing meeting and the Qm was there i would bring this up and yep you have probablly guessed it the answer was we will look into it. No matter how many times it was mentioned nothing ever happened.

Another example was bread...with certain meals bread is included in the cost. I have seen time where gone to eat and low and behold no bread. Speak to Chef and they apologise and say sorry we have run out ???? Ok so speak to Duty Officer and say no bread so do we get discount on price as it should be supplied....Blank stare..... There have been a couple of times where they have been able to get hold of Duty civvy manager and they actually sent someone to local coop to buy bread....Come on how lame is this.

Then on the messing meetings you get sodhexo asking why no one is using the cookhouse.......Lets get realistic about this.

Total waste of time and when guys start flaking on PT as they arent eating properly maybe someone will see sense and go back to the tried and tested method that works.
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PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   12/4/2011, 08:31

Never having experienced civilian catering while serving i find that very interesting TD
Ta much
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 3001
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   12/4/2011, 08:48

The problem is TDivers that this system was imposed on Units and they had to make it work, nobody wants to rock any boats especially at CR time. PAYD is a joke and detrimental to the health and efficiency of the Troops.
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TDivers
SSgt/CSgt
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Number of posts : 65
Cap Badge : Former Royal Engineer
Places Served : Munsterlager, Hohne, Sennelager, Nienburg, Osnabruck
Registration date : 2011-03-30

PostSubject: Re: "Where's your Greatcoat and Tin Helmet"   15/4/2011, 05:47

Shelldrake wrote:
The problem is TDivers that this system was imposed on Units and they had to make it work, nobody wants to rock any boats especially at CR time. PAYD is a joke and detrimental to the health and efficiency of the Troops.

I realise that and dont get me wrong when they initially rolled it out in Hameln Germany i was quite impressed. From what we understood the Cookhouse would be open longer hours and be avaialble for snacks throughout the day. The food was very good there. This appeared to be working in Germany and whoever had the contract there seemed to be making it work and actually listening.

In the UK i found it exactly the opposite. Eating times were cut down opening times were cut down, due to manning problems on the civvy side of it. Then you had the other side of it as whoever has the contract monopolises the camp. No other eating establishments or anything were allowed in camps. Thus cutting out the competition. Maybe its time to change this where Sodhexo is concerned and give them some competition.

And then maybe we would get better service.
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