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 MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS

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Aussie
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Number of posts : 3
Age : 67
Cap Badge : Royal Australian Army Ordnance Corps
Places Served : Australia
Registration date : 2011-03-31

PostSubject: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   1/4/2011, 10:27

My late father, a displaced Polish national, was employed as a watchman by the British Army during period 10 April 1947 and 20 November 1948 in the Schleswig-Holstein and Fallingbostel areas of Germany. I have a few photographs showing my father in uniform and with some research was able to ascertain the uniform worn by the MSO Armed Guard Service was a navy blue Battle Dress and were armed with obsolete .303 calibre Lee Enfield rifles.

I am currently collating a history of my father's life from his Polish roots until his passing in Australia in 1966, hence this post.

I would be most grateful to anyone that can provide me with any information, in particular:
1. The names of the Unit / Barracks at the time.
2. A description / photograph of the MSO cap/hat badge.
3. A description / photograph of the Unit badge.
4. Were these MSO guards entitled to any official service decorations / certificates of service, if so, how can I apply?
5. Is there a list of names (roll book) still in existence of Polish guards or British staff?
6. Are any photographs available?

Thank you and look forward to hearing from you.
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   1/4/2011, 11:02

Hi Aussie, I've worked with the MSO and somewhere around here if you search is a whole thread about them

have you seen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_Service_Organisation
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alan8376
Lt Col
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Number of posts : 398
Age : 69
Localisation : Norfolk, UK
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   1/4/2011, 12:56

Hi Henry,

What was father's name please? I have a feeling there was a very similar enquiry sometime ago from yourself. Maybe a coincidence?

Are you revisiting the forum again incase someone new has info that might help?

Good luck!

Alan
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recce83
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Number of posts : 201
Age : 78
Localisation : Peachland British Columbia, Canada
Cap Badge : Black Watch of Canada
Places Served : 4 CIBG Soest and Werl 1957-1965, Camp Borden, Camp Gagetown
Registration date : 2009-06-04

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   1/4/2011, 20:47

I can't find a picture of the cap badge, however I remember it as a very simple circular brass badge about an inch or so in diameter with the letters "MSO" in the centre. Hope you can get the answers to your questions. There's a wealth of information available on the forum from a great bunch of guys.
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   1/4/2011, 23:01

Here it is

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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   2/4/2011, 10:09


Well done that Caledonian chap !

I was going to comment on the MSO badge but you've aced me.

I must say I can't recall ever seeing a badge bearing such detail. Usually they were so burnished that you could only just make out the "MSO" letters.
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Themaadone
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Number of posts : 270
Localisation : Near London
Cap Badge : RAOC/RLC/AGC
Places Served : Bielefeld, Guetersloh, Viersen, Bracht, Falklands, Aldershot, Leconsfield, NI, Rwanda, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan
Registration date : 2010-09-02

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   2/4/2011, 11:53

Later, the MSO, who were under RASC/RCT command wore the RCT capbadge and in the centre where the EIIR cypher was there was a brass plate with MSO but this was post 1965.

They indeed wore navy blue battledress very similar if not identical to the CCG (Control Commission Germany). Thet had service recognition periods and I think it was 10, 15, 20 and 25 years with another badge being awarded with numbers - worn on the breast. Many received the BEM and even MBE during their period of service.

They were armed with the SMLE .303 Lee Enfield which in 1947 would not have been obsolete but the standard issue British rifle, later they were armed with the 7.62 SLR and 9mm Pistol. they lost their firearms in the late 80s as most were too old to carry out armed duties and the statute which provided them with the right to bear arms only covered displaced people who were in service for the allied forces (the yanks had similar units).

Later entrants were Germans, ex squaddies and Turks who drove the fleet of HGVs, 4 tonnes through to the mighty antar tank transporters and armed security and dog handling duties.
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Themaadone
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Maj
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Number of posts : 270
Localisation : Near London
Cap Badge : RAOC/RLC/AGC
Places Served : Bielefeld, Guetersloh, Viersen, Bracht, Falklands, Aldershot, Leconsfield, NI, Rwanda, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan
Registration date : 2010-09-02

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   2/4/2011, 12:00

http://baor-locations.co.uk/318MT.aspx

Have a look at the link mate.
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Aussie
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Number of posts : 3
Age : 67
Cap Badge : Royal Australian Army Ordnance Corps
Places Served : Australia
Registration date : 2011-03-31

PostSubject: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   3/4/2011, 01:10

alan8376 wrote:
Hi Henry,

What was father's name please? I have a feeling there was a very similar enquiry sometime ago from yourself. Maybe a coincidence?

Are you revisiting the forum again incase someone new has info that might help?

Good luck!

Alan

Good morning Alan,
Thank you so much for your reply and yes I did make some enquiries about twelve months ago regarding obtaining my parents marriage certificate. I was able to obtain this document with your assistance. My father's name is Piotr Slapinski.
I have several photographs of my father in his uniform and another of the British troops that were stationed in the area at the time.
The cap badge worn by the Polish MSO and that provided in the replies, in this forum, are completely different.
Can you please provide me with your Email address so that I can forward these photographs to you in the hope that this anomaly can be clarified.
Thanks once again.
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Aussie
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Number of posts : 3
Age : 67
Cap Badge : Royal Australian Army Ordnance Corps
Places Served : Australia
Registration date : 2011-03-31

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   3/4/2011, 01:31

Hi everyone,

Thank you all so much for your replies and for the info - much appreciated.

I have several photographs of my father in his uniform and another of the British troops that were stationed in the area at the time (1947 - 1948) - I would be happy to share these with anyone in the hope that it will provide more information to the group.

The cap badge worn by the Polish MSO and that provided in the replies, in this forum, are completely different, also the weapons used don't look like .303 rifles.

If interested in receiving these photographs, please advise me of your Email address.

In addition, if you know of anyone that served with the Polish MSO BAOR in the Schleswig-Holstein and Fallingbostel areas, or have photographs, I would be most interested.

Thanks once again.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   3/4/2011, 09:40


Like everyone else, I remember that the MSO blokes seemed to be everywhere. We allways admired the slick way they handled the tank transporter convoys, they really had that job organised !

I never worked with them very much but I do remember being with a POL convoy, mid-70s, in the Hohne area. There was a huge storm blowing the trees down, blocking the roads and damaging power lines.

Having parked up at the Scheibenhof to sit out the storm, a few of us got into the 10 tonner driven by a MSO man, who turned out to be Hungarian.

We could only communicate in (very) broken German but he told us that the vast cobbled surface that we were parked on had been laid by slave labour. He seemed to be saying that he'd been one of them but we couldn't be sure of that. One thing he did make clear though, was that any of the workers who collapsed and could not be made to continue working, were shot by the guards and buried under the cobbles. Apparently they were still there (then).

I wonder if anyone will ever investigate the truth of such stories ? Perhaps not.
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BobG
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Number of posts : 328
Age : 78
Localisation : Northumberland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   3/4/2011, 18:46

I had the pleasure of serving with the MSO - 617 Tk Tptr Sqn, from June 72 - Oct 74. I was the Wksp ASM, they were amazing characters with some horendous stories to tell of their war time experiences.
Brum, I well remember that storm, we were doing a lift from Paderborn to Hohne and were overnighting at Alhornehiede when the storm hit, pine trees were falling like matchsticks, we spent the night trying to kip under the trailers. Next morning we had quite a job moving the fallen trees before we could move out, the Leyland recovery was very usefull.
Bob
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Dolmetscher
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Number of posts : 130
Age : 83
Localisation : Bedfordshire
Cap Badge : RAPC
Places Served : Devizes, HMS Ariel, Winchester, Mönchen-gladbach, Osnabrück, N. Ireland, Ashton-u-Lyne
Registration date : 2010-11-07

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   3/4/2011, 19:21

When I was stationed at Imphal Kaserne, Osnabruck, I recall the MSO used to sit in the NAAFI with pockets full of fat bacon which they consumed while downing bottles of vodka. The bacon seemed to keep them sober.


Last edited by Dolmetscher on 3/4/2011, 20:48; edited 1 time in total
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1034
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   3/4/2011, 20:11

Aussie

Have you tried contacting the Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum in Kensington (they have a website/contact details)?

They have a vast archive of details of the history of the Free Poles including units /names.They were extremely helpful when I visited them a few months ago lokinng for information about th Polish Armoured Division in BAOR
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Hardrations
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   3/4/2011, 21:38

I remember meeting a MSO work party at Rheinselen. Good guys to talk to and to hear why they couldn't return to their home countries. This was in 66-67
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   3/4/2011, 22:56

BobG wrote:
I had the pleasure of serving with the MSO - 617 Tk Tptr Sqn, from June 72 - Oct 74. I was the Wksp ASM, they were amazing characters with some horendous stories to tell of their war time experiences.
Brum, I well remember that storm, we were doing a lift from Paderborn to Hohne and were overnighting at Alhornehiede when the storm hit, pine trees were falling like matchsticks, we spent the night trying to kip under the trailers. Next morning we had quite a job moving the fallen trees before we could move out, the Leyland recovery was very usefull.
Bob

With the power gone QOH opened their cookhouse to families who weren't able to cook a meal.

As well as your Leyland, Bob I believe a number of Leopard recovery tanks were used to clear the roads.

I'd hate to get caught in a REAL hurricane !
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gingerjim
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Number of posts : 487
Cap Badge : raoc
Places Served : blackdown brackley , belgium . viersen
Registration date : 2011-03-21

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   30/5/2011, 19:58

we had mso personel at viersen in mid 50s,they did most of the guards and security around the depot, they were a brilliant lot of men , smart . really funny , and great people to know if you ever needed anything out of the ordinary, we had one polish chap , tomavich he was called , he was very much like dell boy on only fools and horses. if you needed a car he could sell you one . or a radio , a suit of clothes anything at all , but he was a wonderful photographer he had real decent cameras and supplied the lads with photos to take home to family, everybody in the depot was photographed by tomavich, all in all we found the mso real decent men to work with , ginger
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steve jones
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Number of posts : 210
Age : 65
Localisation : Christchurch, NZ
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : AAC Carlisle, Bielefeld, Werl, Munster, Arborfield
Registration date : 2008-04-08

PostSubject: Re: MSO/BAOR POLISH GUARDS   30/5/2011, 23:49

We had MSO in Rippon bks, Bielefeld, early 70’s. Not quite sure what they did in the camp, I think it was just their accommodation. I remember going on a convoy of antars with them. Amazing, we all lumbered down the autobahn at 40kph, but their advance party had already gone ahead, and set up a rest stop. We got there, pulled in, food and tea already made, tables and chairs set up. It was great. After the meal, we set off, the advance party cleared up the mess, and packed up, passed us on the motorway, and got ahead, set up the next rest stop, and on it went. Fantastic logistics.
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