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 BAOR in 2011 ?

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PostSubject: BAOR in 2011 ?   10/4/2011, 08:31

So, these days is there still a British Army of the Rhine. Or is the presence now called BFG, which I presume is British Forces Germany. Rolling Eyes

Would there still be many British troops stationed in Germany?

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TDivers
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Places Served : Munsterlager, Hohne, Sennelager, Nienburg, Osnabruck
Registration date : 2011-03-30

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   11/4/2011, 01:37

There is still quite quite a few Les but getting less. With the recent Closure of Osnabruck Garrison.
And you are correct it is BFG as you said.
Garrisons still going in Germany now Paderborn, Hohne, JHQ/Monchengladbach. I think that is the main ones but may be good for a roll call on this.
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   11/4/2011, 07:01

The name change came about in 1994
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Shelldrake
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   11/4/2011, 08:41

Bielefield and Gutersloh are still going strong, at the moment. I believe that plans are afoot to relocate 26 Regiment from Mansergh Bks to Princess Royal Bks, Gutersloh.
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   11/4/2011, 11:29

Quote :
Princess Royal Bks, Gutersloh

Isn`t there a logistic brigade HQ and signal Squadron there?.
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   11/4/2011, 14:44

I do believe that it is 102 Log Bde, Gordon.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   11/4/2011, 14:50

Does 1 (BR) Corps still exist?
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BobG
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   11/4/2011, 15:05

No Jim, 1 (Br) Corps is long gone.
The garrisons in BFG are now:
Hohne
Fallingbostal
Herford
Paderborn/Sennelager
Bielefeld/Gutesloh
Rheindahlen

How much longer will we have troops in Germany? Rheidahlen is the next to close.
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TDivers
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   12/4/2011, 05:14

BobG wrote:
No Jim, 1 (Br) Corps is long gone.
The garrisons in BFG are now:
Hohne
Fallingbostal
Herford
Paderborn/Sennelager
Bielefeld/Gutesloh
Rheindahlen

How much longer will we have troops in Germany? Rheidahlen is the next to close.

I knew there was a few i had missed....ooops
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Themaadone
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   12/4/2011, 11:08

Progress I suppose.

The Soviet shock troops are no longer a threat, fighting in Chechnya and securing their own borders (for a change) the British and US presence in Germany is just a reminder of the cold war.

With defence expenditure the way it currently is I think the sooner we withdraw our troops from Germany, however much we recall the really good times we had, the better.
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   12/4/2011, 17:51

There are still a few wild card single unit locations left outside the main garrisons listed by Bob G

I believe they are

A dismounted Infantry Battalion in Oxford Barracks Munster (part of 20 Armoured Brigade)

A dismounted Infantry Battalion in Trenchard Barracks Celle (part of 7 Armoured Brigade)

The Sappers in Hameln (part of Herford Garrison?)

and Prince Rupert School Rinteln
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Stephen Lock
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   12/4/2011, 18:00

In conversations I have, both in real life and on the web, there is a whole generation, perhaps even two, who simply do not "get" what having foreign armies in Germany was/is about.

I think the Americans still have a presence there, especially in and around Frankfurt and perhaps Stuttgart. The Canadians, of course, are long gone, not sure about the Belgians, and BFG, as has been noted, still has a reduced presence. French are gone as well, I believe.

The current generation of Germans actually resent the presence of foreign armies, especially those in areas that don't have a garrison or any presence so, of course, are not exposed to the benefits (economic being the most obvious one, I'd say) and have almost no use for NATO.

In my day (aaaarrrghh....I'm saying that in all seriousness now!! I've become my grandfather!!), NATO was respected. Sadly, this no longer seems to be the case. Certainly the Libyan anti-government forces, while gladly accepting NATO assistance, have zero respect for the organization and cast it as some sort of "American Imperialist" thing....meh!

Certainly the presence of NATO troops in Germany 30 and 40 years ago was absolutely because of the Cold War and -- at worst -- seen as a necessary evil, I suppose. More than that in my experience; I felt we were welcome, but perhaps that was merely the perception of an idealistic teenage boy with very little awareness of how the real world operated (although I thought I knew and understood!!).

Times have changed, of that there is no doubt. Themaadone has a valid point re costs and such and it will be that consideration, barring any massive threat to Western Europe (or Eastern for that matter), that will eventually spell the end of BFG and other NATO interests in Europe. Certainly, for right or wrong, it played a major role in the Department of National Defence's decision to pull our troops out.
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   12/4/2011, 18:07

I believe one of the reasons the British are still in Germany is that Warcop and Salisbury Plain training areas are full and there is no room for any Challenger Regiments/Warrior Battalions to carry out low level training and the costs of converting surplus RAF accommodation is astronomical
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jimsigs1
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Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   12/4/2011, 23:19

Herford

I see that my old barracks in Herford - Maresfield has all gone now according to Google maps. We were situated on the outskirts of Herford on the way to the zoo. The camp is now a housing estate although I can just pick out one or two buildings which look familiar. This camp housed 7 Signal Regiment which developed from the old 1 Corps Sig Regt.
Coencedently, I was also in Herford in 1952-4 up at Harewood barracks. The other two Signal Regts were 11 Armd Div Sig Regt & 1 Corps Sig Regt.
All a long time ago and Herford was one of my favourite postings.

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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   13/4/2011, 06:28

The Gym and the NAAFI are still there Jim

http://baor-locations.co.uk/maresfieldbks.aspx
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Themaadone
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Places Served : Bielefeld, Guetersloh, Viersen, Bracht, Falklands, Aldershot, Leconsfield, NI, Rwanda, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan
Registration date : 2010-09-02

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   13/4/2011, 11:07

The training grounds in the UK are good but awfully small and cramped compared to German and Polish training areas. The Poles have become good and solid allies since they joined the alliance (sounds like a Sci Fi filme) but the logistics of moving troops and equipment over hundreds of miles just for an excercise is huge. We do have BATUS but thats not like western europe...

The costs just outweigh the benefits I guess.

The Belgians went before 2000. I was a German paramedic in Cologne from 1999 onward and the Belgian Kaserne was vacant bar for a Belgian Mil Pol unit which was the only MP unit left to administer the remnants of those few Belgique chaps who were in charge of withdrawing their forces (roughly 2000 strong I recall being told).

I know that the French and Germans have the French-German Brigade with French troops in Germany and vice versa, part of the 'EuroCorps'.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-German_Brigade)

The Americans have indeed a massive presence in Frankfurt a.M. and Wuerzburg and also Bitburg air base etc. I know they are or have increased numbers due to Germany being used as a staging point and casevac centre for Afghanistan. Also, the US government is far more 'militant' on keeping the 1945 US troop statute in force hence why ex US service people are able to continue enjoying tax free pleasures.
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   13/4/2011, 12:48

Do we still have a German Panzer Reg't posted to UK?
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Stephen Lock
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   13/4/2011, 18:31

The American troop presence in Germany is massive....far more than Canadians had at our peak and far more than the BAOR had as well, I'd imagine (as large as that was) so, at this point anyway, the cost of dismantling all that and returning troops, family, equipment, etc Stateside outweighs the cost of keeping it going.

Plus, as Themaadone points out, various American bases in Germany are launching points for AF as well as the sites of military hospitals for those in AF and other locations in Middle East and Near East. Now with Libya happening -- and it's only a matter of time before American troops get deployed on the ground despite what the Joint Chiefs of Staff are currently saying -- those German bases will continue to be strategic and needed. It's not like Turkey is willing to let them establish bases!! Too unstable there anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   14/4/2011, 16:08

They make fab Kebabs in Turkey mind you!

ICIRLIK is a dead dodgy place - I remember that one of our guys 'bought' an American 92F (pistol), he tried to send it home part by part.

2 Bombs went up whilst I was there (3 weeks) and I believe they were made/used by the PKK.
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   14/4/2011, 16:27

Alan

Dont think a German Panzer Regiment was ever permanently posted to the UK

However I believe in the 1980s Germany based Panzer Regiments would carry live firing exercises on the Castlemartin Ranges near Pembroke Dock but this ceased with the Unification of Germany in the early 90s.

A number of the permanent staff married local girls , settled in the area, and are now honourary Welshmen
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Hardrations
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in 2011 ?   15/4/2011, 02:37

We had the Germans in CFB Shilo. Lots of them came back. Panzer and Panzergrenedier
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