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 Bring Back National Service

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gingerjim
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   26/5/2011, 19:49

whoever made that program lads army must have been a real nutter, can anyone here visualise a full cpl , going into the naafi after a day training those clowns, and then buying them a couple of crates of beer, and the cardinal sin drinking with them , i dont know about ex wos but those idiots would never have lasted five minutes in the army i was in , did you notice the ncos wore battledress but not the itchy woollen shirts, and i never ever saw an officer wearing a white shirt in uniform , ginger
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"john boy"
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   26/5/2011, 20:20

gingerjim wrote:
whoever made that program lads army must have been a real nutter, can anyone here visualise a full cpl , going into the naafi after a day training those clowns, and then buying them a couple of crates of beer, and the cardinal sin drinking with them , i dont know about ex wos but those idiots would never have lasted five minutes in the army i was in , did you notice the ncos wore battledress but not the itchy woollen shirts, and i never ever saw an officer wearing a white shirt in uniform , ginger

correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that CPL Niocis was with your mob in fact he was RSM this info was told me by an EX WO2 that I was doing a security course with he was X RAOC scratch lol!
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"john boy"
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   26/5/2011, 20:25

Shelldrake wrote:
"john boy" wrote:

If they did bring back National Service they would probably turn it into a T.V. reality program..."And the winner is......." "On to-nights show,we have..." "will he survive the gas chamber ?... or will he fail...? Yep there you go National Service on T.V lol!

"John Boy", there was a programme on a few years ago called "Lads Army", they tried to recreate the spirit of NS days - bit of a joke really, didn't work on the Television, wouldn't work with todays "Yoof". Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

Yeah I watched it for it's comedy content laughed my socks off, CSM comforts squaddie my arse Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes lol!
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jimsigs1
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   26/5/2011, 23:10

Bringing back national service after some 45 years would be a bit of a tall order. I think we all know what it would take to do this - barracks, uniforms, instructors money we havn't got etc etc.
Also, the state of mind of todays youth. They are better off financially than those in the 1950's & 60's, more savvy, materialistically better off what with computers, mobiles etc.

Its a different world than then and our roll in the world is different too. It wouldn't work, but that's only my opinion - chew on that fellas. I'll be hiding in the bunker to avoid the fallout. Tee Hee Hee etc.

Jimsigs1
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   27/5/2011, 20:34

can you imagine todays lads putting up with these commands,,,i will put my boot so far up your rear end lad , you will be spitting cherry blossom for a month, or, if you dont swing your arms lad , i will tear em off stick em up your rear end and eat you like a toffee apple, that is also including a few choice words of encouragement, what would todays lads make of that , would they be offended or have a good laugh like we used to .ginger
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"john boy"
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   27/5/2011, 20:50

gingerjim wrote:
can you imagine todays lads putting up with these commands,,,i will put my boot so far up your rear end lad , you will be spitting cherry blossom for a month, or, if you dont swing your arms lad , i will tear em off stick em up your rear end and eat you like a toffee apple, that is also including a few choice words of encouragement, what would todays lads make of that , would they be offended or have a good laugh like we used to .ginger

they would quote so many rights at you jim your head would spin so there is no way you could rip there head off and "s**t down their neck or make them crawl on their hands and knees three times round the parade ground wearing a pink helmet shouting out what a w*****r he is aint gonna happen worse luck Mad lol!
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jimsigs1
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   27/5/2011, 21:24

Then there is call me Dave's polically correctness to contend with. Also, their human rights. Also how would the old Padreof yesterday manage with todays youth and all the extra religious persuasions of today.

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"john boy"
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   27/5/2011, 21:47

[quote="jimsigs1"]Then there is call me Dave's polically correctness to contend with. Also, their human rights. Also how would the old Padreof yesterday manage with todays youth and all the extra religious persuasions of today.

Jimsigs1[/quote

Chaplain Charlie would certainly have his work cut out in todays forces that's for sure confused lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 12:43

Now I guess most of you on this forum were Regs., you wanted to join up. In the main NS lads didn't, but they knew it was inevitable, everybody that was fit enough had to do it, so they got on with it. I think most look back on those 18 months or two years with some sort of pride, forgetting the bad bits. Those who kicked against the system hated it forever, the rest buckled down and got on with it. Because everybody was in the same boat, so to speak, and there was always someone worse off to have a giggle at, it was tolerable.

There were good things. Some learned to read & write, most had never been away from Mum & learned to cope. But in the main, conditions were worse than today's Regs. would tolerate. Billets could be basic, pay at 20p a day was laughable, food in still- rationed UK was dodgy, barrack rooms were often unheated except for a cast iron stove dangerously placed in the middle of the bed rows. In fact the culture shock of putting on khaki in the 1950's was probably about the same as it would be to take today's electronically dependent 18 year olds and put them into one of the post war barrack blocks of the current set up. Remember that TV programmes which try to replicate NS were sending today's lay-abouts back 50 years. That's much more drastic, and that's what it was meant to be.

There wasn't as much chance of being shot at for the NS squaddy. The unfortunates might end up in places like Kenya, Korea, Malaya, Cyprus or Canal Zone but, in the main, there was more danger from a traffic accident or getting burned with a hot iron when pressing his kit. When there was involvement in a shooting war, it was lucky that there were still senior NCO's on hand who had WW2 experience.

From a Regs. point of view, some had mixed feelings about a mainly NS army. A conscript could jump up the promotion ladder more quickly, though few other than specialists ever got more than two stripes. The NS soldiers' preoccupation with demob could be unsettling. Regs. at the bottom end could become infected and unwilling to extend their time. Equally, with a regular fortnightly turn over of men, there were more places in the higher ranks for those Regs. who were selected for promotion.

So bring back NS ? No way, we couldn't afford it. But if it was really necessary I expect those selected to serve would turn out to be just as bolshie and just as capable as their predecessors were.
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"john boy"
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 13:42

cartav wrote:
Now I guess most of you on this forum were Regs., you wanted to join up. In the main NS lads didn't, but they knew it was inevitable, everybody that was fit enough had to do it, so they got on with it. I think most look back on those 18 months or two years with some sort of pride, forgetting the bad bits. Those who kicked against the system hated it forever, the rest buckled down and got on with it. Because everybody was in the same boat, so to speak, and there was always someone worse off to have a giggle at, it was tolerable.

There were good things. Some learned to read & write, most had never been away from Mum & learned to cope. But in the main, conditions were worse than today's Regs. would tolerate. Billets could be basic, pay at 20p a day was laughable, food in still- rationed UK was dodgy, barrack rooms were often unheated except for a cast iron stove dangerously placed in the middle of the bed rows. In fact the culture shock of putting on khaki in the 1950's was probably about the same as it would be to take today's electronically dependent 18 year olds and put them into one of the post war barrack blocks of the current set up. Remember that TV programmes which try to replicate NS were sending today's lay-abouts back 50 years. That's much more drastic, and that's what it was meant to be.

There wasn't as much chance of being shot at for the NS squaddy. The unfortunates might end up in places like Kenya, Korea, Malaya, Cyprus or Canal Zone but, in the main, there was more danger from a traffic accident or getting burned with a hot iron when pressing his kit. When there was involvement in a shooting war, it was lucky that there were still senior NCO's on hand who had WW2 experience.

From a Regs. point of view, some had mixed feelings about a mainly NS army. A conscript could jump up the promotion ladder more quickly, though few other than specialists ever got more than two stripes. The NS soldiers' preoccupation with demob could be unsettling. Regs. at the bottom end could become infected and unwilling to extend their time. Equally, with a regular fortnightly turn over of men, there were more places in the higher ranks for those Regs. who were selected for promotion.

So bring back NS ? No way, we couldn't afford it. But if it was really necessary I expect those selected to serve would turn out to be just as bolshie and just as capable as their predecessors were.

I see where you are coming from ,as I am to young to have done NS my father told me a lot about it he was conscripted into the Guards before that he worked as a farm hand in Cornwall without much prospect back then. He said that it was a welcome relief for some who's only hope was to end up working down the mines or some crappy dead end job because unless you were of the establishment or well educated back then you didn't stand much chance on the career ladder so to speak.Hence the fact some of blokes continued with their military career as did my old man . With so many options open for the youth of today why would they want too give up the easy life that they have.So in reality your bang on lol! as for all you wonderful guys on this forum ,you are byfar more knowledgeable than I on these matters as a number of you would have done NS cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 14:15

I can't really comment on it as I am far too young Very Happy One thing I can say on a personal basis is that the army taught me that I wasn't thick, and no better than factory fodder.

I don't suppose I am unique but I went in to drive trucks, thinking that was my limit. No offence to those that do but on taking the tests, I was told I could be a radio operator. Me? No way could I do that. We think you can and so I did. Later on they said become a radio telegraphist, an A trade that encompassed Morse, teleprinters amongst other stuff. Me? Don't think I could do that. We think you can. So I did!

I've a lot to thank the army for although I doubt I could have put up with the bullshit the NS guys had to put up with.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 16:46


My generation were subject to corporal punishment at every turn.

There was no challenging the Establishment in those days, we had to trust those in power to run the country properly. We accepted those in authority, just like our parents did. We were held responsible for our actions.

Going into the forces wasn't particularly traumatic for blokes of our age, we were used to being verbally abused and, as an earlier contributor said, National Service was something that everybody did and a lot of people were better for it.

We were disciplined then, although it didn't feel like it. We used to behave like louts in the cinema, aping our heroes on the silver screen. When the film ended there would be a stampede for the exit but when the National Anthem struck up, those that hadn't made it to the door skidded to a halt and stood to attention. It was the expected thing.

This country is not what it was, we can never go back. Let's just pray we never have to rely on the youth of today to defend it !



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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 17:06


Cartav, you have summed up the situation admirably. Those of us growing up in the 40s and 50s were conditioned to the inevitibility of call up and the prospect at times was frightening. We could not even shelve the thought of going in as we weren endlessly reminded of it in one form or another. The Daily Mirrror (the National Serviceman's friend) often published horror stories and we always knew somebody, having done their stint, who would take delight in embellishing their experiences.

I recall the school dentist coming to my school a year of so before I left, it seemed nearly every pupil needed treatment. At morning assembly afterwards the headmaster said all those concerned had the choice of having the recommended treatment now or face bigger problems in the future. He then stopped, smiled, and went on the say "But of course the boys can only avoid treatment until they are 18!"
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cartav
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 18:09

Well, yes, Teabag, there was bullshit, seemingly idiotic instructions passed down which had no other use than to make things difficult. At least that's how it was in recruit training. Once in a service regt. things eased off. There, the bed was for sleeping on, not just a suitably flat surface on which to display all the goodies issued by the QM. It was all part of an introduction to Army life, everybody shared it and endured it, pulled together, became part of the team which hated the system. Bullshit was something to recall later and usually exaggerate when it was aired with mates in the pub back home. But having a full day, gave little time for brooding, and little energy for jumping over the wire and running back to mum.

And many of the irksome tasks named as bullshit were dreamed up by the recruits themselves. Not the coal whitewashing, or sweeping a parade ground with a toothbrush, those activities were crazy, but things like scraping paint off a Kiwi tin, or polishing the drawing pins on the billet noticeboard would be done by a recruit for a laugh. Once noted by the management, these tasks became written into standard operational procedures for inspections, everyone was required to comply.

Once with in BAOR, things were more relaxed. Billet duties, daily cleaning and special pre-inspection attention was necessary for healthy living, laying down standards for personal hygiene was essential for the odd squaddy who would have neglected to wash daily if left to his own devices. So was kit maintenance. Giving excessive attention to belts and gaiters, bulling 2nd best boots was placed in the bullshit category, even though it wasn't strictly required.. We were lucky perhaps. A new battery commander came in, he was more concerned that his vehicles started on the first pull of the button rather than remained in the MT shed gleaming but static. They were cleaned, of course, but not given the final wipe down a diesel soaked rag which had been the previous incumbent's instruction.

So it wasn't too bad and although webbing had to be blancoed & buttons needed shining it was no worse than later soldiers are required to do.


Last edited by cartav on 28/5/2011, 22:19; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 19:41

if you look at it most of us who grew up during the war found army life reasonably easy to get used to , at school we were caned and beaten if we misbehaved , leaving school we were still open to a clip round the ear from the foreman or other seniors, most of us at one time belonged to the cubs , scouts, lifeboys , boys brigade, and army cadets, so really we were were well used to doing as we were told , most of us found the square bashing a doddle, we were used to it , we had all worn some kind of uniform . had all been on low pay , and all of us were used to pathetic food rations, so all in all ,i myself found army life reasonably easy, ginger
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 19:54

brum wrote:

This country is not what it was, we can never go back. Let's just pray we never have to rely on the youth of today to defend it !




I recognise the sentiment but firmly believe the youth of the day will always rise to the occasion and defend the country, once they realise the alternative is to have some one telling them what to do and enforcing it. That's why we still speak english(well a minority of us) and keep the odd custom as long as it doesn't offend some person who would never defend the freedom we give them
to be here. I know we can't go back but hell it would be sweet if we could..
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 21:33

[quote="cartav"]And many of the irksome tasks named as bullshit were dreamed up by the recruits themselves. Not the coal whitewashing, or sweeping a parade ground with a toothbrush, those activities were crazy, but things like scraping paint off a Kiwi tin, or polishing the drawing pins on the billet noticeboard would be done by a recruit for a laugh. Once noted by the management, these tasks became written into standard operational procedures for inspections, everyone was required to comply.

With respect Cartav.

We had to scrape a Brasso tin leaving only the "RA", then burnish the exposed surface.

We had to take our spare boot laces, wind them into a spiral, stitch the loose end to prevent unwinding, iron it flat then bull the surface of the creation.

We had to polish the studs and plates of our best boots then burnish the brass eyelets of the laceholes.

There was much more.

This wasn't done for a laugh mate, we didn't have the time to dream up such lunacy !
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cartav
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 22:11

Sorry Brum ! Didn't want to cause any uoset....... We had to do the same scraping and polishing of boots, but what I was getting at is that someone had to think it up first as a bright idea and, in my lot, some of the tricks we had to perform were introduced by lads in the billet, some were tradition and some of those could have been brought in by recruits themselves. Certainly, with us, scraping a Kiwi tin was done by one keen recruit without being told to, though I expect someone else, somewhere else, had done it before.

Don't want to give credit to any to any of the training NCOs for original thought !

And just a thought........ If NS was brought back I wonder how many who are keen to be British would suddenly find that they had a different nationality and dodge the call up.
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"john boy"
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 22:54

brum wrote:

My generation were subject to corporal punishment at every turn.

There was no challenging the Establishment in those days, we had to trust those in power to run the country properly. We accepted those in authority, just like our parents did. We were held responsible for our actions.

Going into the forces wasn't particularly traumatic for blokes of our age, we were used to being verbally abused and, as an earlier contributor said, National Service was something that everybody did and a lot of people were better for it.

We were disciplined then, although it didn't feel like it. We used to behave like louts in the cinema, aping our heroes on the silver screen. When the film ended there would be a stampede for the exit but when the National Anthem struck up, those that hadn't made it to the door skidded to a halt and stood to attention. It was the expected thing.

This country is not what it was, we can never go back. Let's just pray we never have to rely on the youth of today to defend it !




Brum I don't know what age you are but I have to agree when I grew up in the 70's discipline was at the forefront in the home we were taught it at an early age knowing right from wrong,respect your elders we did what you did in the cinema(when did the BBC stop playing the N.Anthem?) I think that discipline begins at home. Thanks to the nambe pambe state that we live into day put an end to that "Get your kit they need us" lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   28/5/2011, 23:50

Quote :
We had to scrape a Brasso tin leaving only the "RA", then burnish the exposed surface.

We had to take our spare boot laces, wind them into a spiral, stitch the loose end to prevent unwinding, iron it flat then bull the surface of the creation.

We had to polish the studs and plates of our best boots then burnish the brass eyelets of the laceholes.

There was much more.

And they say Signals are bullshitters??????

Never had to do anything like that,not even in boy`s service..
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Teabag
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PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   29/5/2011, 00:06

Ah ballcocks to the national anthem! I don't believe many if any joined up for Queen (King) or for that matter country. Yes if our country was threatened but most of us who joined as volunteers wanted something different from standing at the bar of our local for years on end until we had beer guts like sumo wrestlers.

I can't speak for anyone else but my experience was talking to a serving cousin and his description of the mates, good times with a little bit of fear plus a chance to travel a bit. Well Germany in my case!

I'm going to tell you all a little secret now but don't tell the army. In 1958, I had a serious operation. I was dragged to see the surgeon by my mother after recovering and she was told that I would never be able to join the forces due to the fact that I was born with one kidney. Being eight, it never really registered that conscription was in force at the time and it was happy days for those that didn't qualify to be called up. Went totally over my head at the time. Well it would when your interest was mainly slapping your arse with your hand in a horse whipping motion after seeing Hopalong Cassidy at the Saturday matinee in the local flea pit. Enough about my fetishes!

As I said, many years later and being beguiled by my cousins description of sun, sand (no sea, I wasn't joining the navy), sex and sergeant majors (that's a lie actually), I was determined to join up.

Went to Birkenhead recruiting office, which was actually good training in urban warfare if you know Birkenhead and said I wanted to join. Such nice men those Sergeants and they said yeh you can become one of us, sign here. Blah blah blah medical! Shit thinks Teabag, medical?

Some time later I receive the dreaded letter telling me to report to Bromborough (Wirral, quite an old village with a lot of history..........) Teabag reports with trepidation but thankfully he waited outside. No kidding, this doctor was easily over eighty years old. Does the usual checks, two of them, two of them, one of them (small), and then asks what the rather large scar is on my gut? Panic, well I had a cyst on the liver and it turned gangrenous so they operated again! Oh so you had a (insert rather large latin word here) did you? Yeh says I, not having a clue what he was talking about. Oh that's no problem says he and proceeds to tell me all about the boer war or whatever it was he served in? Phew!

I never got asked about the scar ever again and have managed to survive sixty years (sixtyone next Saturday, gifts c/o Wallasey postoffice please) with one kidney, two balls but one vas. Look it up. Laughing
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   29/5/2011, 07:52

Teabag, a friend of mine suffered from the same problem, he wasn't aware of the fact that he had only one kidley and it wasn't discovered until well into his service. I joined the Army because I wanted to drive (everyone did in the early 60's), I did all the usual medical tests and it was discovered that I was (am) Colour Blind. I was informed that I couldn't be a driver but I could become a Clerk, CLERK!!!, how could I tell all my mates in Glasgow that I was a Clerk!. Anyway, I joined as a Clerk and soon moved on to something a bit more interesting (Guns). Cut a long story short - I finished up as the D & M WO/MTO. So much for Colour Blindness - it was just a ploy to recruit people to make cups of tea for Officers. Very Happy Very Happy
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cartav
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 783
Age : 87
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   29/5/2011, 09:07

Here's one, slightly deviating from this topic's track, but certainly NS related.............

Somewhere south of Bielefeld, east of Munster, there's a road junction, it was signed "Harsewinkel" & "Fuchtorf". Whenever there was chance to call a halt, the truck would pull in to let the new lads pose for a photograph. Anyone else do the same?

And, hey ! Ref colour blindness...... When on the ack ack range at Todendorf on the Baltic, it was SOP for a safety officer to stand where he could be seen by another similar behind each gun. This other had an electrical the thingummy that stopped the gun firing until he pressed the button. Safety officer had two flags, one green, one red. The red flag was held aloft until the Mosquito had passed over the firing point and the towed sleeve was 400 yds behind. Layers sat crouched over their reflector sights, tits pressed so that the Bofors went BANG- BANG- BANG as soon it was made active. You've guessed. Red flag looked like green to the one with defective vision, Mosquito pilot had to take avoiding action. It's said he wired down " I'm towing this bloody thing, not pushing it".,
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   29/5/2011, 10:20

When I had my release medical, the MO asked me how I managed at Traffic Lights!!! I thought these guys had a University education? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Bring Back National Service   29/5/2011, 12:25

[quote="cartav"]Sorry Brum ! Didn't want to cause any uoset.......

No need to apologise mate.

No upset caused.
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