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 lest we for get

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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   14/11/2011, 20:48

Back in the late 40's we used Mossburgh .22 with Parker Hale sights, found it at that young age 14/15/16/17 a great indoor range rifle and extremely accurate.

Matty, thats the young lad in the photo is wearing a brassard, he was just promoted to Cpl.

If there is still a Royal Air Force when he reaches enlistment age he intends to join up as a regular. Desperately wants to become a pilot.

Len (Ciphers)
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   14/11/2011, 21:53

Shelldrake wrote:
cartav wrote:


and he's got the white lanyard of shame which was only worn by non-
commissioned ranks.



That's a new one on me, do tell Cartav.


Put me on the circulation list too !
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PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   14/11/2011, 23:35

There has long been a tale about Gunners wearinga white lanyard for cowardice, allegedly for deserting their guns. Of course, this story is nothing more than a piece of leg pulling, the information that follows is historical facts.

Lanyards associated with dress came into use in the late 19th Century, when field guns such as the 12 and 15 pounders used ammunition which had fuses set with a fuse key. The key was a simple device, and every man had one, attached to a lanyard worn aroundhis neck. The key itself was kept in the breast pocket until needed. The lanyard was simply a piece of strong cord, but it was gradually turned into something more decorative, smartened up with 'Blanco', and braided, taking its present form. Prior to the South African War, Gunners were issued with steel folding hoof picks, carried on the saddle or in the jacket. In about 1903 these were withdrawn and replaced by jack-knifes, which were carried in the left breast pocket of the service dress attached to a lanyard over the left shoulder.

In the war years that followed, the lanyard could be used as an emergency firing lanyard forthose guns which had a trigger mechanism, allowing the gunner to stand clear of the gun's recoil.

The question of which shoulder bore the lanjard dependson the date. There is no certainty about this, but the change from the left shoulder to the right probably took place at the time of the Great War, when the bandolier was introduced, because it was worn over the left shoulder. But there are some who insist that 1924 was the date of change, when the sloping of rifles over the left shoulderwould soil the white lanyard.

Eventually, in 1933, the end of lanyard was simply tucked into the breast pocket without the jack-knife, though many may remember that it was often kept in place with the soldiers pay book! On the demise of Battledress, the lanyard dissappeared for a short tie, but returned as part of the dress of the Royal Regiment Of Artillery in 1973. It may surprise some readers that this particular piece of leg pulling is repeated in various forms. The Gold stripes in the Gunners Stable belt stem - like the blue scarlet - from the colours of the uniform at the same time the stable belt was introduced.

It was not a question, as the jokers would have it, of yellow stripes for cowardice! Equally silly is the suggestion that the Gunners grenade has seven flames as opposed to the sappers nine because we lost 2 guns at the same point in history! For those still plagued by jokers, the simplist answer to this kind of leg pulling is to invite the joker to present his evidence. No change to any of the army's dress regulations can take place without a formal order, and let us be realistic! it is ludicrus to suppose that the Army Board in its wisdom would countanance the idea of a 'Badge of shame' to be worn by any branch of the service. It would garuntee that no one would ever join it! And since no such evidence exists, the jokers story falls flat on its face. One might even ask why other arms and corps wear lanyards - they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

Quote by Brigadier KA Timbers,
Royal Artillery Institution
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 08:10

By coincidence, Brig Timbers was my Commanding Officer when I served in 47 Regt.
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jimsigs1
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1298
Age : 83
Localisation : West of England
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 14:20

Wonder what the medals are which the RA Sgt is wearing on his right chest !

Jimsigs
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Chaz
Sgt
Sgt
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Number of posts : 20
Age : 50
Localisation : Norfolk
Cap Badge : RE
Places Served : Hameln,Chatham, Berlin, Maidstone, Munchengladbach, Conninsby, Hermitage (with the obligatory tours all over the world)
Registration date : 2011-11-03

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 15:31

You may wear your fathers medals on your right chest and your own on the usual place on the left.

Generally you only wear your own medals in uniform, you may get permission to wear other medals for a specific reason from your unit or higher command.
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Chaz
Sgt
Sgt
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Number of posts : 20
Age : 50
Localisation : Norfolk
Cap Badge : RE
Places Served : Hameln,Chatham, Berlin, Maidstone, Munchengladbach, Conninsby, Hermitage (with the obligatory tours all over the world)
Registration date : 2011-11-03

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 15:33

Just noticed whats this REME lark on my avatar pic ???? RE here for 24 years, sapper through and through (although due to getting rid of REME leccys my last posting was as an RE Electrician to a REME LAD in an RE unit.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 15:42

Chaz wrote:
Just noticed whats this REME lark on my avatar pic ???? RE here for 24 years, sapper through and through (although due to getting rid of REME leccys my last posting was as an RE Electrician to a REME LAD in an RE unit.



You'll be well pleased when you get promoted to Sgt then, Chaz affraid
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jimsigs1
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1298
Age : 83
Localisation : West of England
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 20:56

Hi Chaz,

As Shelldrake stated that you will be pleased when you get promoted to Sgt - a Gunner Sgt, that's a promotion for an RE ! You will be able to stand on the right of the line provided that the guns are on parade. !!

Jimsigs1
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 21:41

jimsigs1 wrote:
Hi Chaz,

As Shelldrake stated that you will be pleased when you get promoted to Sgt - a Gunner Sgt, that's a promotion for an RE ! You will be able to stand on the right of the line provided that the guns are on parade. !!

Jimsigs1

I say, steady on old horse !

We might share the same motto as the Sappers but let's not get TOO carried away !

What, what ?

Harrumphh !
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 87
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 21:47

[quote="Gordon."]
Quote :
the white lanyard of shame
?????????Thought that was just a story...

Heads Down ! Incoming ! ( to quote our US Allies!)

Thanks Gordon ! You can always be relied upon for chapter & verse. The white lanyard thing was told to me & 30 odd other innocents during our first week of induction trg. at Oswestry, part of the regt. history stuff they tried to gee up reluctant conscripts with. The battle of Colenso , Boer War was cited.

Gunner CO had moved his lads further forward than he should have done, which in itself was of little import. When they'd fired off all the ready to use stuff they sent back for more and withdrew 50 yards back into cover for a smoke break, leaving ten guns unattended, breech blocks in place for, after all, there was some infantry presence.

Top man. Sir Redvers Buller, got his knickers in a twist and ordered a withdrawal, which fooled everybody who was expecting to bring guns & the rest back undercover of night. Upshot was guns were unattended, Boers pinched them together with the ammunition train & drivers who had gone forward.

So spake the WO II who was giving the lecture, he even told that a non-teeth armed unit, ASC, Ally Sloper's Cavalry, I think, towed the guns back. Not so. The Boers kept them, might have even left a letter of thanks for the Army's generosity.. Our advisor went on to tell that the guns were The Colours of the Royal Regt., which confused everyone unfamiliar with military terminology and now wondered what the red & blue bits on tac signs and shoulder titles were.

I've never heard the "lanyard of shame" mentioned by anyone other than a Gunner, and that's acceptable. I wonder if it's grown up in RA folklore to drive home the need never to leave the guns behind.

In respect of an incorrect interpretation of RAF kit on the Remembrance Day pic., I hold my hand up & plead guilty. Never met brassards like that, you see, always managed with something cobbled up from a bit of old denim sleeve or white paint direct on to the sleeve. It was rough in the olden days !
And finally.......... Should have gone to Specsavers !
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PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 23:08

We got the white lanyard story as apprentices.But being clever young lads we knew it was to do with long bow strings..Apparently the Archers /Gunners plaited their spare strings into lanyards to pass away the time.(tic)
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Chaz
Sgt
Sgt
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Number of posts : 20
Age : 50
Localisation : Norfolk
Cap Badge : RE
Places Served : Hameln,Chatham, Berlin, Maidstone, Munchengladbach, Conninsby, Hermitage (with the obligatory tours all over the world)
Registration date : 2011-11-03

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   15/11/2011, 23:33

Ah lets not get some old Sapper Dropshort banter get in the way lol.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   16/11/2011, 07:46

Bloody Wedgies!! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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brum
FM
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   6/1/2013, 10:08


Once again I find myself dragging the conversation back to the original topic !

Warning Order.

2100hrs Heute Abend, BBC2.

"Tankies: Heroes of WW2".

It's on the Beeb, so should be good.

Falling out, to set my recorder.

Sah !
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   6/1/2013, 10:14

I shall give it my best personal attention. (They is probably all poofs as well!).
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   6/1/2013, 10:36


Well, I'm glad to see SOME bugger's up and about !
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: lest we for get   7/1/2013, 08:40

brum wrote:

Well, I'm glad to see SOME bugger's up and about !




Always on "Stand To" at first light, Brum. That and the fact that my bladder is not what it once was. drunken drunken
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