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 Walter Mittys.

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steve1226
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 09:51

Where did all this wearing bits of uniform on remembrance day come from anyway? I was on a ferry to Cherbourg at the time of the 50th anniversary of the D day landings and there were a lot of veterans on the boat. None of the Brits were wearing uniform but all the Americans were wearing bits of kit. You could see the Walters telling tall tales to whoever would listen while the real vets just stood and stared at the coast.
I think it all started then. Before that all the old boys round my way wore mufti and no beret on remembrance day.
What got the Mitty's really excited was when they started bringing the bodies back to Wooton Basset and the TV got interested.
I think maybe the paras all wore their berets but someone can prove me wrong. I have lost count of the number of times I have met people who claim to be ex forces and when you ask what mob they always give you that look and say "The mob." Wankers. As we all know anyone who was special forces wouldn't dream of telling anyone, especially a stranger.

Anyone who saw thew film "Ronin" with Sean Bean playing a very Walter Mitty type will remeber how Robert de Niro caught him out by asking him what colour the boathouse door was in Hereford.
Great film though.
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cartav
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 10:41


Goes back a long way this Walter Mitty stuff............... just been reading an account of Rorke's Drift & bits in the film "Zulu". It says the Colour Sgt, hadn't been awarded the WW1 medals he wore and the Welsh connection was a bit premature. The 24th Regt detachment at Rorke's Drift had 49 English, 32 Welsh, (18 of whom were from Monmouthshire which wasn't a Welsh county then ), 16 Irish & 22 of various nationality.

Although the 24th's depot had been set up in Brecon four years before, they didn't become the South Wales Borderers, who adopted "Men of Harlech" as the regt march, until two years after the action. Eat your heart out Taffy !
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brum
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 10:46

[quote="steve1226"] I have lost count of the number of times I have met people who claim to be ex forces and when you ask what mob they always give you that look and say "The mob." Wankers.

On the odd occasion I've encountered a potential Walt I simply ask "what's your first four ?".
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 10:53

cartav wrote:

Goes back a long way this Walter Mitty stuff............... just been reading an account of Rorke's Drift & bits in the film "Zulu".    It says the Colour Sgt, hadn't been awarded the WW1 medals he wore and  the Welsh connection was a bit premature.  The 24th Regt detachment at Rorke's Drift had 49 English,  32 Welsh, (18 of whom were from Monmouthshire which wasn't a Welsh county then ), 16 Irish  & 22 of various nationality.

Although the 24th's depot had been set up in Brecon four years before,  they didn't become the South Wales Borderers, who adopted "Men of Harlech" as the regt march, until two years after the action.   Eat your heart out Taffy !

I never noticed C/Sgt Bourne wearing WW1 medals, I must have a shufti next time it's on.
They DID lay the Welsh stuff on a bit didn't they ? Around that time , apparently, the SWB and the Warwicks were a bit entangled. I've never got around to researching that though.
Anyroad up, Ivor Emmanuel was good and the Zulus were just brilliant.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 11:49

I worked with a guy who served 22 years with The Parachute Regiment, finished up as a C/Sgt, what he hadn't done wasn't worth knowing. He was a Walt in uniform!
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cartav
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 14:56

brum wrote:


I never noticed C/Sgt Bourne wearing WW1 medals, I must have a shufti nexttime it's on..................
Anyroad up, Ivor Emmanuel was good and the Zulus were just brilliant.

Bet you won't have to wait long to see it !   I seem to be having a gander every other month, it's well worth it.  And yes, I'll be looking at the C/sgts  chest ( as well as the Zulu maidens' bit in the beginning !).  Maybe the author's not above getting things wrong as he does say  "Sgt. Major" not "C/ Sgt". I think Chard's too up to date with his pistol too. Looked to me like an Enfield or a Webley .38 which are much too recent. However it's all good stuff and the author is credited with 35 years service and for being one time CO of a light cavalry regt.   Warwicks are mentioned  and Bromhead is noted as being a company  "OC   of "24th ( 2nd. Warwickshire ) Regt.   Can't quite understand that  but, at the time, there was some reorg in hand and  regts which were once labelled just by a number were now about to have  an association with a particular county or district.

Too Welsh ? Maybe ........ That's what you might expect from Stanley Baker and Burton.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 17:36

Its not normaly the author who is wrong but the film maker & his props department.

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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 20:50

Why spoil a good story by telling the truth?

In Zulu Private Harry Hook is portrayed a a drunken layabout. Subsequent research showed he was a very quiet, utterly reliable teetotaller Londoner.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   19/7/2013, 21:36

Zulu, the film - Historical inaccuracies

Historical picture of Zulu warriors from about the same time as the events depicted in Zulu
Although writer Cy Endfield consulted a Zulu tribal historian for information from Zulu oral tradition about the attack, a number of historical inaccuracies in the film have been noted:

The regiment

The 24th Regiment of Foot is described as a Welsh regiment: in fact, although based in Brecon in south Wales, its designation was the 24th (The 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot. It did not become the South Wales Borderers until 1881. Of the soldiers present, 49 were English, 32 Welsh, 16 Irish and 22 others of indeterminate nationality.

The song "Men of Harlech" features prominently as the regimental song; it did not become so until later. At the time of the battle, the regimental song was "The Warwickshire Lad". There was no "battlefield singing contest" between the British and the Zulus.


The Witts

There are several inconstencies with the historical record concerning the Swedish missionaries, the Witts. In the film, Witt is depicted as a middle-aged widower, a pacifist and drunkard, who has an adult daughter called Margareta. In reality, Otto Witt was aged 30, and had a wife, Elin, and two infant children. Witt's family were 30 kilometres (19 mi) away at the time of the battle. On the morning of the battle, Otto Witt, with the chaplain, George Smith and Surgeon-Major James Henry Reynolds had ascended Shiyane, the large hill near the station, and noticed the approach of the Zulu force across the Buffalo River. Far from being a pacifist, Witt had co-operated closely with the army and negotiated a lease to put Rorke's Drift at Lord Chelmsford's disposal. Witt made it clear that he did not oppose British intervention against Cetshwayo. He had stayed at Rorke's Drift because he wished "to take part in the defence of my own house and at the same time in the defence of an important place for the whole colony, yet my thoughts went to my wife and to my children, who were at a short distance from there, and did not know anything of what was going on". He therefore left on horseback to join his family shortly before the battle.

The men of the regiment

Lieutenants John Chard and Gonville Bromhead: Lt Chard had received his promotion in April 1868, making Lt Bromhead the junior Lieutenant and second-in-command at the Drift even though he was an infantryman and Chard an engineer. In the film, it is stated that Bromhead received his commission only three months after Chard when, in fact, it was a full three years after Chard.

Surgeon Reynolds: During the Battle of Rorke's Drift, Reynolds went around the barricades, distributing ammunition and tending to the wounded there, something that is not shown in the film.During the closing voiceover, he is also incorrectly referred to as "Surgeon-Major, Army Hospital Corps"; Reynolds was of the Army Medical Department, and was not promoted to the rank of Surgeon-Major until after the action at Rorke's Drift.[9] The pacifism apparent in Magee's portrayal is also somewhat anachronistic and not based on the historical Surgeon Reynolds.

Private Henry Hook VC is depicted as a rogue with a penchant for alcohol; in fact he was a model soldier who later became a sergeant; he was also a teetotaller. While the film has him in the hospital "malingering, under arrest", he had actually been assigned there specifically to guard the building.[10] The filmmakers felt that the story needed an anti-hero who redeems himself in the course of events, but the film's presentation of Hook caused his daughters to walk out of the film premiere in disgust.

Conversely, Corporal William Allen is depicted as a model soldier; in fact, he had recently been demoted from sergeant for drunkenness.

Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne (1854–1945) is depicted as a big, hardened, middle-aged veteran; in fact, he was of smaller stature and, aged 24, the youngest colour sergeant in the British Army.

He was called 'The Kid' by his men. Sergeant Bourne would not have worn medals on his duty uniform. Moreover, Green's costume has the chevrons on the wrong arm. Bourne refused a VC and instead requested a commission. He was the last British survivor of the Battle, dying a full Colonel.

The role of Padre George Smith ("Ammunition" Smith) is completely ignored.

Corporal Christian Ferdinand Schiess was only 22, significantly younger than the actor who portrayed him.

The detachment of cavalry from "Durnford's Horse" who ride up to the mission station were members of the Natal Native Horse, mainly composed of black riders, (rather than the local white farmers depicted in the film), who had survived the Battle of Isandlwana and had ridden to Rorke's Drift to warn and aid the garrison there. They were present during the opening action with the Zulus, but then rode off as they had very little ammunition for their cavalry carbines. Captain Stephenson is depicted at their head; in reality he was leading the NNC infantry, who had already deserted.

The uniforms of the Natal Native Contingent are inaccurate: NNC troops were not issued with European-style clothes. The story of their desertion is true. However, as Witt had already left, he was not responsible for their departure. They left of their own accord, with Captain Stephenson and his European NCOs. These deserters were fired at as they left and one of their NCOs, Corporal Anderson, was killed. Stephenson was later convicted of desertion at court-martial and dismissed from the army.

The Zulus

The attack on the mission station was not ordered by King Cetshwayo, as the audience is led to believe in the film. Cetshwayo had specifically told his warriors not to invade Natal, the British Colony. The attack was led by Prince Dabulamanzi kaMpande, the King's half-brother, who pursued fleeing survivors at Isandlwana across the river and then moved on to attack Rorke's Drift. Although almost 20,000 rounds of ammunition were fired by the defenders, only about 375 dead Zulus were found at Rorkes Drift; however, scores of Zulu dead were found further afield (dying from wounds or finished off by their own side), which suggests that about 500 Zulus died and about a further 500 were wounded. Zulus feared the bayonet more than the bullet, and most had died without being shot.

Ending

The ending of the film is somewhat fictitious. There was no Zulu attack at dawn on 23 January 1879, which in the film led to the singing of "Men of Harlech". There was only sparse fighting with a few remaining Zulus.

However at roughly 7:00 am, an Impi of Zulus suddenly appeared, and the British manned their positions again. No attack materialized, as the Zulus had been on the move for six days prior to the battle. In their ranks were hundreds of wounded, and they were several days march from any supplies.

Around 8:00 am, another force appeared, and the defenders abandoned their breakfast to man their position again. However the force turned out to be the vanguard of Lord Chelmsford's relief column.

The Zulus did not sing a song saluting fellow warriors, and they did not depart peacefully. They departed at the approach of the British relief column.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_(1964_film)

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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   20/7/2013, 01:53

I fully enjoyed that movie even though I was so young.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   20/7/2013, 09:37

[quote="Mike_2817"]Historical inaccuracies


I think the film was better !

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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   20/7/2013, 17:27

Done a bit our Frankie ..

Len (Ciphers)

Frank Bourne
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Frank Bourne

Born
27 April 1854
Balcombe, England
Died
8 May 1945 (aged 91)
Beckenham, London, England
Buried at
Beckenham Crematorium and Cemetery
Allegiance
 United Kingdom
Service/branch
British Army
Years of service
1872 - 1907, 1914 - 1918
Rank
Lieutenant Colonel
Unit
24th Regiment of Foot
Battles/wars
Anglo-Zulu War
Battle of Rorke's Drift
World War I
Awards
Officer of the Order of the British Empire
Distinguished Conduct Medal


Lieutenant-Colonel Frank Edward Bourne OBE DCM (April 1854 – 8 May 1945) was a decorated British soldier who participated in the defence of Rorke's Drift during the 1879 Anglo-Zulu War. He was also the last known survivor of the battle.

Early life
Born in Balcombe, Sussex, England in 1854, Bourne enlisted in the Army at Reigate on 18 December 1872, aged 18 years 8 months. Four years later he had been promoted to Colour Sergeant becoming the youngest NCO of his rank in the entire British Army. This earned him the nickname 'The Kid'.
Rorke's Drift
On 22 and 23 January 1879, Bourne was part of the garrison at Rorke's Drift, Natal, South Africa, which held off a Zulu army. Bourne, who was now an NCO in B Company, 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot, helped organise the defence at the mission station and field hospital. Throughout the day and night of the battle, the Zulus made repeated attacks against the barricades, but the outnumbered defenders held out until relief arrived.
For his bravery, Bourne received the Distinguished Conduct Medal (DCM) for "outstanding coolness and courage" during the battle, with a £10 annual annuity. The DCM, until 1993, was the second highest military decoration (after the Victoria Cross) awarded to other ranks of the British Army. He was offered a commission, but "being an eighth son, and the family exchequer ... empty", he declined it.
Later career
After Rorke's Drift, Frank Bourne served in British India and Burma, being promoted to Quartermaster-Sergeant in 1884. He was commissioned in 1890. He was appointed Adjutant of the School of Musketry at Hythe, Kent, and retired in 1907. At the outbreak of the First World War, he re-enlisted. By 1918, he had been given the honorary rank of Lieutenant-Colonel and made an OBE.
Bourne lived in retirement at 16 King's Hall Road, Beckenham, Kent. He was the last surviving defender from Rorke's Drift, dying on VE Day (8 May 1945), at the age of 91. Bourne was buried in Beckenham Crematorium and Cemetery.
Film portrayal[edit]
In the 1964 film Zulu, Bourne was played by Nigel Green. Green was considerably older (about 40 years old) and taller than Bourne, who was 24 and 5' 6" (1.68 m) at the time of the battle.
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ciphers
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   20/7/2013, 18:03

On closer inspection it looks like both medals worn by Frank Bourne bear Queen Victoria's image.

Len (Ciphers)
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   20/7/2013, 18:09

ciphers wrote:
On closer inspection it looks like both medals worn by Frank Bourne bear Queen Victoria's image.

Len (Ciphers)

Lets see;
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 11:02

*WARNING ORDER*

BBC2, Today 1210 hrs.

"The Secret Life of Walter Mitty".

(I hate Danny Kaye!)
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 12:10

Is it really Danny Kaye or somebody pretending to be him?Suspect Suspect 
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brum
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 12:45


scratch Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 15:31

There is a blue circular plaque on the wall of 16 Kings Hall Road in Beckenham. The house is a typical late Victorian/early Edwardian suburban house.
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Shelldrake
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 15:44

Goldmohur wrote:
There is a blue circular plaque on the wall of 16 Kings Hall Road in Beckenham. The house is a typical late Victorian/early Edwardian suburban house.



These departures from the thread are becoming more and more obscure!Rolling Eyes 
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 15:56

Goldmohur wrote:
There is a blue circular plaque on the wall of 16 Kings Hall Road in Beckenham. The house is a typical late Victorian/early Edwardian suburban house.

Wie bitte ? study 

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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 16:07

Shelldrake wrote:
Goldmohur wrote:
There is a blue circular plaque on the wall of 16 Kings Hall Road in Beckenham. The house is a typical late Victorian/early Edwardian suburban house.



These departures from the thread are becoming more and more obscure!Rolling Eyes 

OH goody I do so love a jigsaw puzzle, so lets start guessing shall we;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Bourne

South African Zulu war, lived at 16 King's Hall Road, Beckenham and is buried in Beckenham Cemetery.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 16:12

Come on chaps, thinking caps on.
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BobG
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 328
Age : 78
Localisation : Northumberland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 16:44

C Sgt Frank Bourne of Rorkes Drift fame lived there.
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Eric England
Maj
Maj
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Number of posts : 232
Age : 65
Localisation : China
Cap Badge : REME 1972 - 1984
Places Served : Arborfield, Deepcut Camberley 25 Lt Regt Catterick/NI, 4 Lt Regt Catterick/NI, 655 Sqn AAC Detmold, QRIH Padderbon, 9/12 Lancers Muenster, 655 Tank Tptr Sqn Fallingbostel, HQ REME 3rd Armd Div Korbecke, SEE Arborfield, HQ REME Trg Center Arborfield.
Registration date : 2013-04-22

PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 16:55

BobG wrote:
C Sgt Frank Bourne of Rorkes Drift fame lived there.

Well you and I did not so that eliminates two other possibles hey? LOL
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
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Number of posts : 3003
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Walter Mittys.   25/7/2013, 17:05

I'm pretty sure that Danny Kaye was born there?
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