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 MY Dad MSO

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rcemeguy
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 7
Age : 66
Localisation : Halifax, Canada
Cap Badge : RCEME
Places Served : Canada and Lahr Germany
Registration date : 2012-08-28

PostSubject: MY Dad MSO   28/8/2012, 01:14

Greetings from Halifax Canada. My dad was a Polish MSO Driver. I think it was
Bielifeld. His British army drivers permit is stamped

314 BSE
CMLO
Can anyone tell me what that means?
Thanks, Gary
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1023
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   28/8/2012, 08:23

Welcome

It might help the team if you passed on the date of the driving licence/pass
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rcemeguy
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 7
Age : 66
Localisation : Halifax, Canada
Cap Badge : RCEME
Places Served : Canada and Lahr Germany
Registration date : 2012-08-28

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   28/8/2012, 12:19

Hello, it was dated April 1949. He ended his service there in 1950.
The stamp also says Tpt. Office and I know that means transport.
Thanks.
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1023
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   29/8/2012, 15:40

Gary

A few more thoughts.

I entered the initials CMLO BAOR into the advance search of my Google Earth and it came up with the following,
1. Atleast three sites with coloured picture of a British Army style diamond cloth capbadge and shoulder flashes with the initials CMLO (in blue) on a red background

2. Chapter 8 of a book entitled History of the Polish Armed Forces 1939-1949

The history of Poland during World War2 and aftermath is both sad and tragic. The Country was quickly over run in September 1939 by the Nazi German Forces advancing from the West and Soviet Russian from the East. Some Polish servicemen eventually managed to make their way to the British controlled areas of the Middle East, some subsequently moving to the UK, and central Scotland in particular, to create the 1st Polish Armoured Division. Not withstanding the bravery of the Polish soldiers at Cassino, the Normandy breakout or at Arnhem, following the German Surrender in May 1945, owing to political pressure and the perceived need to placate Stalin the Free Poles were denied the opportunity to participate in the major Victory Parades held in both London and Berlin in Summer 1945

Indeed the 1st Polish Armoured Division who had ended the war with the capture of Wilhelmshaven and become part of the Occupation Force of the British Zone were disowned by the newly installed puppet Communist (Soviet backed) Government in Warsaw and were forced to disband. (latterly they had been reinforced by the survivors of the Arnhem Assault by the Polish 1st Independent Parachute Brigade)

The intention was that these now ex Servicemen should return to their homeland to help rebuild their shattered country. Many refused through distrust of the new Communist Government in Warsaw, the loss of that part of their former homeland which had been arbitarily incorporated into Ukraine in 1945, or hoping to settle in Scotland (in practice few Poles were permitted to settle in the UK, mainly those with specialist skills or willing to work in the relatively dangerous environment of heavy industry or coal mining. Others registered as potential emigrants to the USA, Canada or Australia.

Belatedly in 1946/47 the British Army formed two unofficial groups of Polish ex servicemen still based in Germany. One was to provide a Guard Force for British Barracks and other key installations. The second to provide, probably under Royal Army Service Corps sponsorship (they were then responsible for the organisation of military transport systems), additional drivers for military vehicles. This latter group was known as the Civilian Military Labour Organisation (CMLO).

In the late 1940s these and other similar groups were incorporated into what became known as the Mixed Services Organisation (MSO) details of which can be found elsewhere on this site.

Finally some four years ago there was a similar query on this site from Australia seeking information about his Polish father's post war service with 314 Transport Group. This man had served in Bochum and Osnabruck. From this and the information you gave I believe 314 Transport Group was the umbrella title of a number of Polish transport units or detachments based in the major military Garrisons throughout the then British Zone of Germany

I think we have solved the meaning of the initials CMLO, the phrase BSE must remain a mystery for the present
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alan8376
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 389
Age : 69
Localisation : Norfolk, UK
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   29/8/2012, 16:14

The nearest I have come across using BE were the Americans refering to the CCG BE


BE meaning British Establishment. Not sure what the 'S' could stand for!

Alan
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rcemeguy
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 7
Age : 66
Localisation : Halifax, Canada
Cap Badge : RCEME
Places Served : Canada and Lahr Germany
Registration date : 2012-08-28

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   29/8/2012, 17:07

Thank you for the replies. Interesting that you are both retired REME Officers. I joined RCEME
in 1966 as a Soldier Apprentice, served as a Weapons Technician and was commissioned from the ranks. I retired as a Captain in 1995.

My father was just 17 when Germany invaded Poland. He was loaded on to a train and shipped to
Germany as a "volunteer worker". His contribution to the German war effort would not have made
him welcome back in Poland after the war.

In 1975 I was on a gun camp with the Royal Canadian Dragoons in Bergen Hohne. A group
of these old Polish guys in British Army uniforms loaded up our Centurions on Antar transporters
and took them to another range for us. I never made the connection until years later.

Arte et Marte

Gary
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1023
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   30/8/2012, 09:15

Gary

Thank you for your kind words

The "Polish soldiers" you saw at Hohne were undoubtedly members of the legendary MSO 617 Tank Transporter Squadron fiercely proud of their heritage and originally recruited exclusively from veterans of the Polish 1st Armoured Division.
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BobG
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 328
Age : 78
Localisation : Northumberland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   30/8/2012, 16:31

Gary

The MSO were a special, I had the pleasure of serving with them. I was ASM of the Workshop attached to 617 Tank Transporter Sqn MSO based in Hamm 72 - 74. They were amazing characters who, after a few vodkas, would tell some amazing stories of their war time experiences.

Regards

BobG
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   30/8/2012, 18:23

In the mid-seventies there was a hurricane in the Bergen-Hohne area and my convoy of POL trucks had to sit in the Scheibenhof to wait it out.
We had a Hungarian MFO driver for our 10 tonner, he didn't speak much German and even less English but he was able to tell us that there were bodies of prisoners, under the cobbles that we were parked on. He said that those who had died, while working there, were just covered over with the cobblestones and left.
I don't know when Scheibenhof was constructed and, if it was a true story, I fail to see why the remains of those people would not have been recovered by then but even so, we had goose bumps just thinking about it.
A lot of those "Mojos" must've been through hell during the war.
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bigmal
Maj
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avatar

Number of posts : 296
Age : 59
Localisation : Worksop, Notts
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E
Places Served : Fallingbostal, NI, Hohne, Fallingbostal, again.
Registration date : 2012-03-30

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   1/9/2012, 09:10

Loading at Hohne they more than likely came from 16 Tank Transporter SQN based at Fallingbostel who were in the next barracks along from 7 Armd Wksp when i was there in the late 70`s.
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BobG
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 328
Age : 78
Localisation : Northumberland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   1/9/2012, 19:20

BigMal

Short lifts around the ranges would be carried out by whoever was available. We in 617 would often do a Mon/Tues lift to Hohne, short lift on Wed/Thurs, return lift for unit completing ranges/trg, home to Hamm Sat. Had to try and get in a full weeks work as we were able to claim NRSA, extra income a great incentive.

BobG
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gingerjim
Col
Col


Number of posts : 487
Cap Badge : raoc
Places Served : blackdown brackley , belgium . viersen
Registration date : 2011-03-21

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   1/9/2012, 19:53

in the old viersen coffee factory that served as rhine sub depot , 15 abod ,raoc, in the 50s . we had a large contingent of mso personel. they were used in a security role . mainly guard duties etc . mostly poles and yugoslavs , a bloody great bunch of blokes they were , smart and loyal , ginger
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bigmal
Maj
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avatar

Number of posts : 296
Age : 59
Localisation : Worksop, Notts
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E
Places Served : Fallingbostal, NI, Hohne, Fallingbostal, again.
Registration date : 2012-03-30

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   2/9/2012, 15:32

BobG wrote:
BigMal

Short lifts around the ranges would be carried out by whoever was available. We in 617 would often do a Mon/Tues lift to Hohne, short lift on Wed/Thurs, return lift for unit completing ranges/trg, home to Hamm Sat. Had to try and get in a full weeks work as we were able to claim NRSA, extra income a great incentive.

BobG

Just shows what i know or don`t know as the case may be.
I was `o`nly` a Storeman, after all. Laughing
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iandolinski
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 6
Localisation : Australia
Registration date : 2008-11-14

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   26/9/2012, 05:58

Hi eveyone been a while since i posted but still searching for answers.
Been in touch with Gary thanks to P W. I have also been tracking down BSE but nothing concrete yet.
I original wrote on this site about my dad and the 314 tpt grp a few years ago.
Have been in touch with UK Archives regarding some info just waiting for a reply.
Found a site, baor army units 1945 on. co. uk -that is the name of site did not want to create link.
It has heaps of info on the Regiments etc. A couple of days reading material there but nothing that lists Bochum or the 314 tpt grp though does list Larkhill. They do list 312, 317MSO, 617Tank Transporter MSO and a whole lot more including dates and where based and units combined and when disolved.
Be in touch when i find more info. Keep up the good work.
Ian
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Dieter.Rudolph
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 33
Age : 78
Registration date : 2012-11-15

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 14:10

I thought it a good idea to use these various forum subjects to make more of you aware of my book that surely will be of interest to many of you or your close family members. What fantastic guys you all are and the information that comes out of the woodwork. Anyway, thanks to you and yours for liberating us from madman Adolf. Forgive me, I still want to make you aware of my book, so here goes:

All fascinating subjects, but have you forgotten that it is time now that you put your mind to those presents for Christmas and not leave it to the last minutes. You, or most likely your Dad’s or his Dad will want something thoughtful and interesting as a gift. I have worked hard and burnt much midnight oil to make this possible for you. Why not look at the following internet site and happy reading to all.

world wide web.farewelltohamburg.com
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PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 14:40

I think we get the message Dieter
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Dieter.Rudolph
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Number of posts : 33
Age : 78
Registration date : 2012-11-15

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 15:51

Great, I can stop now and thanks for letting me know. Hope the printer can keep up with the orders as books are printed to order, modern technology has taken over.

I have been interested in every topic I have visited and this forum is wonderful and so educational.

I am happy to also report that the British Forces Newspaper Sixth-sense-newspaper.de will be printing an article on my book.

You all have a nice evening now.

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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2990
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 15:58

Wish it was in Turkish!! Laughing Rolling Eyes study I'm only half way through "Fly Fishing, by JR Hartley". study study
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PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 16:36

Im tempted to tell you how it ends Twisted Evil




Last edited by Gordon. on 19/11/2012, 16:41; edited 1 time in total
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2990
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Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 16:37

Does it get away?
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PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 16:44

What????/The fly????
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2990
Localisation : Camberley
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Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 17:38

No, the fish. Rolling Eyes Stupid boy!
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PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 19:11

Oh! the fish?

Alf Tupper had it with chips out of a newspaper..
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Dieter.Rudolph
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PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   19/11/2012, 19:34

Hey, you are stealing a section out of my book. I dare not say any more as all will be revealed to you during your reading on cold winter evenings that we have very few off here in Spain.
Fish and Chips out of newspaper, they never tasted better. Health & Safety will never allow it again.
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Eric England
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Places Served : Arborfield, Deepcut Camberley 25 Lt Regt Catterick/NI, 4 Lt Regt Catterick/NI, 655 Sqn AAC Detmold, QRIH Padderbon, 9/12 Lancers Muenster, 655 Tank Tptr Sqn Fallingbostel, HQ REME 3rd Armd Div Korbecke, SEE Arborfield, HQ REME Trg Center Arborfield.
Registration date : 2013-04-22

PostSubject: Re: MY Dad MSO   11/5/2013, 11:47

BobG wrote:
BigMal

Short lifts around the ranges would be carried out by whoever was available. We in 617 would often do a Mon/Tues lift to Hohne, short lift on Wed/Thurs, return lift for unit completing ranges/trg, home to Hamm Sat. Had to try and get in a full weeks work as we were able to claim NRSA, extra income a great incentive.

BobG

Correct, it could have been either unit for short lifts. I was REME attached to 16 tk tptr sqn in Fally late 70s to early 80s.

We had a bad experience there, the range roads were wide and lots of passing space but my OC got a phone call and asked me to jump in my car and go to a location on the range road as one of our mechanics had an accident on a convoy patrol bike and may have broken a leg.

I arrived back some 40 minutes later to inform the OC that he had not only broken a leg and we should contact the hospital for a coffin, the OC's face turned pale. The mechanic had an head on accident with a DAF truck poor guy, not a hells chance of surviving that one. His wife had just had their first baby some days before all this.

I spent the evening in the pub trying to pretend it never happened, it was just too hard to swallow.
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