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 Identification of Regt from WW1

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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 948
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Identification of Regt from WW1   15/3/2013, 23:16

A buddy of mine is researching his father and is trying to identify this regiment. I have searched literally thousands of photo's from that period, Infantry, Light Infantry, Territorial, Militia and Yeomanry to no avail ... any suggestions.
Uniform is fancy and he is carrying a walking out stick .. collar dog seems to be possibly a lion.

Len (Ciphers)

 photo photo_zpsacfa2faa.jpg
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 75
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 11:01


Now that's a strange one !

There's a Victorian feel to the picture but I don't think the badge is from any British regt.
There were a lot of marching bands in existence around that time, I've seen pictures of bands that were created by workers at the Crewe railway works that would make your hair curl !
That uniform is too well made to be one of those though.

In my opinion, if that's a real military uniform then the regiment must be one from the Commonwealth.

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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 86
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 11:20

[quote="brum"]
Now that's a strange one !

There's a Victorian feel to the picture but I don't think the badge is from any British regt.............[quote]

Agree with some of your conclusions Brum......... those wings on the shoulder look like adornments worn by musicians and the animals on the collar dogs almost look like Assyrian lions. But if Cipher's & his mate are the same age, the mate's father isn't likely to be in uniform when Victoria was in charge. I bet there's something on Google about Brit Army badges, though. That might be worthy of a look.
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Shelldrake
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2981
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 12:31

I would also agree that his epaulettes indicates that he was musician, he is also wearing aiguillettes similar to those worn by NCOs of the Life Guards - in this case as issued to a full corporal. This website may provide the answer:-


http://ibew.org.uk/vbbp-uk.htm



As an afterthought, the belt attachment looks like a support for a drum.


Last edited by Shelldrake on 16/3/2013, 12:38; edited 2 times in total
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BigJock
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 117
Localisation : €uroland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Arborfield, Bordon, Osnabrück, Paderborn and once again Paderborn.
Registration date : 2011-06-14

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 12:31

I would agree with cartav, he looks like a bandsman and the collar badge looks more like a dog on a leaf to me.
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alan8376
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 356
Age : 68
Localisation : Norfolk, UK
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 13:14

Last letter on shoulder badge =G
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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 948
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 16:31

Thanks for your input guy's, I have trolled through hundreds of pages of badges on Google, even better Yahoo, Bing etc with no luck. Also I did consider Company Bands but the rank structure put me off. As my buddy is very close to my age, 80 this year I'm thinking that the photo may be post WW1. I will recheck some of the info I have and soldier on ... it keeps me off the streets.

Len (Ciphers)
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 86
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 17:12

ciphers wrote:
Thanks for your input guy's, I have trolled through hundreds of pages of badges on Google, even better Yahoo, Bing etc with no luck...........

I did a quick shufti for badges too, Len....... There are dozens & dozens as you will have found out. Lots in the Yeomanry sector are for local regts which no longer exist and I suspect some of the infantry reserve units are in the same category. Then there's all the colonial stuff too, which might not be classed as Brit. in Google. Do you have any idea of the background of the one in the pic ? If he was from a known area in UK, or elsewhere abroad, it could point us to units with connections to a particular location. Some of my lot, for instance, were in the Guernsey Militia in the late 1800s & pre-WW1. They had their own badges but I bet they aren't on the web.

And, yes, that animal has a dog-like tail......... Stretches the imagination a bit but, if it's a fox, it could suggest a badge of a Yeomanry outfit, a local reserve regt.rather than the regs.
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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 948
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 17:27

cartav, have asked my pal to try to send a better photo, this one was from his iPhone with better information. His family lived in the London area, I have checked all known London, City of London etc regiments. I'm on a listening watch from my friend.

Len (Ciphers)
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Dan M
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 105
Age : 61
Localisation : Mississauga
Cap Badge : The Royal Canadian Regiment
Places Served : 1977-80, London ON, Gagetown NB
Registration date : 2010-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 19:08

I've been looking at the badge above the Corporal's stripes. To me, it looks like two bugles, crossed at the mouthpiece, surmounted by a six-point star. See third from right below (crossed bugles but minus the star).



The site that his photo is from states that it is for a Bugle-Major, but doesn't identify a Regiment or Corps.

Further research has lead me to believe that the crossed bugle badge is obsolete, having been replaced by a single bugle to denote the same appointment.

I'm still looking.

Cheers,
Dan.
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Dan M
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 105
Age : 61
Localisation : Mississauga
Cap Badge : The Royal Canadian Regiment
Places Served : 1977-80, London ON, Gagetown NB
Registration date : 2010-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 19:49

Two points. First, upon further reflection and a closer look, I don't believe that there is a star above the bugle major's badge. I think it was just the bugle cords causing the optical appearance of a star.

Second, does the collar badge not closely resemble the one for this Regiment? I know it's not exact, but it could also explain the letter G on the epaulette. And, if the British Army is anything like the Canadian, Signal Regiments have bugle bands.

Cheers,
Dan.

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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 948
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   16/3/2013, 21:46

Thank's for your input Dan .. I'm trying to elicit more info from my friend ... will keep at it

Len (Ciphers)
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BigJock
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 117
Localisation : €uroland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Arborfield, Bordon, Osnabrück, Paderborn and once again Paderborn.
Registration date : 2011-06-14

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   17/3/2013, 09:13

I'm wondering if the collar badge is a dog or fox on top of the New Zealand fern?
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 75
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   17/3/2013, 09:45


Now you mention it, it does look like a fern leaf.
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Shelldrake
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2981
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   17/3/2013, 11:38

The Collar Badge looks to me like some sort of bird, possibly a Pheasant or a Peacock?
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   17/3/2013, 13:04

Quote :





Two points. First, upon further reflection and a closer look, I don't believe that there is a star above the bugle major's badge. I think it was just the bugle cords causing the optical appearance of a star.

Second, does the collar badge not closely resemble the one for this Regiment? I know it's not exact, but it could also explain the letter G on the epaulette. And, if the British Army is anything like the Canadian, Signal Regiments have bugle bands.

Cheers,
Dan.
















Royal Signals were not formed untill 1920 Dan
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BigJock
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 117
Localisation : €uroland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Arborfield, Bordon, Osnabrück, Paderborn and once again Paderborn.
Registration date : 2011-06-14

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   17/3/2013, 15:44

He looks very young, is this maybe some sort of cadet force.
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Dan M
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 105
Age : 61
Localisation : Mississauga
Cap Badge : The Royal Canadian Regiment
Places Served : 1977-80, London ON, Gagetown NB
Registration date : 2010-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   17/3/2013, 22:52

Quote :
Royal Signals were not formed untill 1920 Dan

Really? We had a Corps of Signals in the Canadian Army from 1903.

But thanks for the info. Knowledgeable guys like you keep knowledgeably challenged guys like me on the straight and narrow.

Time to start looking for that damn collar badge again.

Cheers,
Dan.
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   18/3/2013, 07:55

good luck with the search Dan..i have been through thousands of badges and the closest i can get is the leicestershire regiment.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 75
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   18/3/2013, 11:33


Following the trail laid by Bigjock I've been searching for NZ cap badges etc, (not that there are many of them).
The fern leaf features large of course but never singly.
It's a pity my trusty books can't help this time but they only cover British badges.
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BigJock
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 117
Localisation : €uroland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Arborfield, Bordon, Osnabrück, Paderborn and once again Paderborn.
Registration date : 2011-06-14

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   18/3/2013, 11:41

A clearer image of the collar badge would help immensely.
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Shelldrake
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2981
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   18/3/2013, 12:20

I'm going to stick my (sore) neck out here and take a punt at the Royal Yeomanry (formerley the Westminster Dragoons). Smile
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 86
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   18/3/2013, 13:29

BigJock wrote:
A clearer image of the collar badge would help immensely.

Reckon those shoulder titles might be the favourites if they can be enlarged & clarified. It certainly looks like a "G" for the last letter.......... Scuppers the Yeomanry guess Shelldrake, but I think a minor unit like that will be the one we're after.
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   18/3/2013, 13:46

Quote :
I'm going to stick my (sore) neck out here and take a punt at the Royal Yeomanry (formerley the Westminster Dragoons).

Nope
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Shelldrake
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2981
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Identification of Regt from WW1   18/3/2013, 14:02

Royal Geomanry?
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