MCTC

Never had the privilege they seem to be hard on cooks and clerks Sheldrake take note

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NotqDCjQQ3U

Some of the youngsters in that place most probably don't understand what is required of them unless you take the time to explain exactly what you want them to do and the standards that are required.Some youngsters are slow to start with but in the army you are treated as if you all know what is required and the level needed to achieve that goal.I can remember one particular chap who was very intelligent and he simply got right up the RSM and CSM's noses in the way he went about his duties and was always getting bollocked for his uniform, timekeeping,and general standard of work.The RSM took him aside one day and asked him what his problem was and he replied," Why do you always f***ing shout as if I was deaf sir".Well the RSM was absolutely stumped for words and he duly charged him for insubordination.The soldier went up in front of the Coy Comm and when asked the question about his insubordination the soldier simply replied I am still waiting for the RSM to answer my question about shouting which was a simple question that the RSM could not answer so he charged me simply because he was stumped....Sir. I was escort to this guy and believe it or not he got off with it too as the Coy Comm was also stumped.

It has been my experience that a lot of guys who were "Retrained" in the MCTC went on to bigger and better things when they returned to their unit.

Shelldrake, That is what the MCTC was designed for.To retrain some of those who had a wee hiccup in their careers and needed to be re-educated into the military frame of mind.If you kept your nose clean you never experienced any problems and you were treated like a human being and not just someone to be shouted at all the time.If you didnae like being shouted at and the discipline then you should not have joined up in the first place.Its no a place fur safties I say.

Not like the old days "Take him up the hill staff"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWd_RvUzqw

Hell....I had a harder time at "brat" school..(AAS)

Huh!
We didn't have build our hills, the bloody Welsh mountains were on our doorstep !
(I remember going to see that movie in Colchester, when it first came out).

Ahh the,"Tell your mother you are on a, Motor Cycle Training Course"

The only time I was ever at the place was escorting some of the lads down from Ecosse to start their sentence.My brother did 56 days for going awol for over a year because he was being bullied by a mouthy C/Sgt.

Hmm, I watched episodes of this some years ago. Still reminds me of my basic training in '63. That first episode of the MCTC shows the SUS using 38 parttern webbing when in parade, and this was in 1993 when this programme was filmed.

How does the current MCTC regime compare with that back in the 1970s? I had to escort a few awol types down there in 1976 when I was on the RP Staff at 11 Signal Regiment, Helles Lines in Catterck. The old Colchester glass house, as memory serves me was a load of Nissen Huts in the wired off compound as you came through the main gates with the SUS. You had to double time as escort with SUS into a reception hut of some description back then. Not an experience I would want to go through even for the escorts.

Which was the toughest MCTC training establishment - Colchester or Shepton Mallet way back in the dim di stant past?

How does British Military Prison discipline regimes compare, say to US ones? Are the American ones even more rigid and brutal, or are they all much the same?

Bielefeld had a pretty fearsome reputation in the early/mid 50s (before the REME Workshop moved in)

Do the same rules apply to the MCTC that exists in civvy prisons?Do the inmates in MCTC get the same privileges as the inmates of civvy st get, eg: TV's etc etc and if not, why not?Some of the petty crimes committed by the service community and warrant imprisonment at the MCTC would be dealt with by fines and community service in civvy st.Is military law harsher than civvy law and therefore the sentences handed down are harder for petty crimes and misdemeanors.Looking at the film of MCTC and judging the staff's performance at supervising the "inmates" and carrying out the orders. I wonder just how many youngsters actually were RTU'd and how many left the army as a result of the regime at MCTC.I'm sure that "Collie"nowadays is a holiday camp in comparison to say the fifties/sixties/seventies/eighties.Have any of you on the website ever did a staff posting at the MCTC and if you did, how was it for you?

MCTC or 'Colly' affected different people in different ways. I once escorted a prisoner from 3RRF (Who were at the time at Minden) from Hanover to Colly. Once at MCTC I got a right bollocking for helping him with his bags! He was then booked in as he stood to attention with his nose pressed against a wall. I could see he was frightened and tbh I felt like punching the loud mouthed SOB who was shouting at him. Anyway... as I was saying, Colly affected people in different ways. We had one bloke who did four months and was petrified of going back, he said he would go absent if he thought he ever had to go back there. On the other hand we had a scouse bloke who went to Colly three times, each time for just 28 days and they gave him a real hard time, but it was like water off a ducks back to him. He really didn't care, nothing phased him. I have to say he wasn't the most disciplined of soldiers but I found him to be good company and over a period of time we became quite good friends. He was eventually kicked out, the last I heard he was in prison for GBH. This was back in...late 1980's, I hope he sorted himself out. Once you chipped away the hard shell he was a decent bloke.

Can someone please answer this question.Why do the authorities treat SUS/SAT as hardcore prisoners in the way they treat them?All the shouting and belittling will simply not scare anyone and nor will the threats of a kicking or an extension to their sentence.You will get more out of a man if you treat him like a man and not an imbecile.I got more work out of my Jocks by not shouting or threats.After all we all stated at the bottom and we all know how hard it is at first and all it takes is a friendly bit of understanding and persuasion and no need for shouting unless you are in the middle of an ambush or contact.

I think that it has a lot to do with insecurity Tam, if in doubt - SHOUT!

Most probably Shelldrake.I am reminded by a mate of mine who was always in trouble with senior ranks and he always wound up the person by saying to him,"You are the one that is shouting and I'm certainly not deaf so don't boil your waters sir" or whatever their ranks were.This bloke was certainly working his ticket and he was trying to get over to his superiors that he was going mad.He certainly convinced them as he got his ticket and a nice pension for his troubles.

[quote="Wilf"]
On the other hand we had a scouse bloke who went to Colly three times, each time for just 28 days and they gave him a real hard time,

Not trying to be argumentative, this is my lack of knowledge. I thought you went to MCTC if your offence was beyond the power of your CO to deal with and warranted more than 28 days nick.
I always thought Colly meant 56 days.

Yes Brum,I always though the same.56 days colly was always heard around the unit for those who broke the rules.
Up to 28 days in the Garrison jail.

And me, my understanding was that you could be sentenced to 28 days in the MCTC if you didn't have a Unit Guardroom or if it was full. I believe that nowadays sentences in the MCTC range from 14 days to 2 years.

[quote="brum"]

Wilf wrote:

On the other hand we had a scouse bloke who went to Colly three times, each time for just 28 days and they gave him a real hard time,

Not trying to be argumentative, this is my lack of knowledge. I thought you went to MCTC if your offence was beyond the power of your CO to deal with and warranted more than 28 days nick.
I always thought Colly meant 56 days.

You're not being argumentative at all, I'm no expert when it comes to the MML or Queens Regs. But I assure you, the CO sent Scouse ******** to MCTC Colchester for 28 days on three seperate occasions. The only reason he never went a fourth time is because he was discharged. We were at the time posted at CAD Kineton (Warks) I suspect this may not have happened had we been out of the UK.

I suspect there are people who think you can only get your parachute wings unless you serve with an airbourne unit? This was the general consensus of opinion. However it's a myth, the same CO would send anyone who he thought could pass P company to do the course after which they would come back early (RTU) or with para wings on their sleeve. I have no doubt some people will say this could never happen.

I recall officers who had completed the course but never having served with an airborne unit, wearing the parachute, without wings, (The light bulb) on the lower right sleeve of their uniform. Don't know if this was the case with ORs.

Those who had been REALLY naughty and committed an offence that was too serious to be punished by a spell in MCTC, got sent to Shepton Mallet.
I know nothing about "The Mallet" but believe it was on a parallel with a civvy nick.

brum wrote:

I know nothing about "The Mallet" but believe it was on a parallel with a civvy nick.

Staffed by some [REALLY] evil Barstewards. Ronnie and Reggie did their National Service there.

Quote :

I recall officers who had completed the course but never having served with an airborne unit, wearing the parachute, without wings, (The light bulb) on the lower right sleeve of their uniform

We had a Capt. at brat school with one of those..Always wondered what it was for.

On successful completion of their eight descents, trainees are presented with their 'wings'[1] by the Officer Commanding No. 1 Parachute Training School, and return to their units as qualified parachutists.
The Parachute Badge with Wings insignia is only to be worn by a qualified parachutist who has subsequently been on the posted strength of a unit where he may be ordered in the course of his duties to parachute.[2]
Those who do not serve with a parachute unit are permitted to wear the Parachute Badge without Wings, colloquially known as the 'Lightbulb'.[3]

I was one of the OR's that were able to wear the Lightbulb. After completing my jump course. I then moved on to wearing proper wings later.