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  Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba

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ritter
Maj
Maj
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   19/5/2013, 04:08

BAOR(CIB)
Attention: Gunners et al
The picture below was featured in the Waterloo Region Record, Kitchener, ON in the Saturday edition of the Victoria Day holiday weekend 18-20 May 2013. It was taken at the Royal Canadian Artillery Museum at CFB Shilo, a two-hour drive from Winnipeg in southwestern, Manitoba. The picture provides a rare frontal view of an artillery SP gun called the "Priest" because of its unique pulpit like structure shown on the left side. The pulpit was manned by a gunner with a mounted machine gun. The artillery piece is a 105mm howitzer.


The picture is of special interest as the 19th Fd Artillery Regiment RCA was issued this SP during the campaign from DDay through France, Belgium, Holland, and Germany. The 99th Fd Battery of Wingham, North Huron Township, ON was activated from 21 Fd Artillery Regt RCA as part of the 19th Fd in WW2.
Ubique
Gnr Ritter
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   19/5/2013, 11:42

A point of interest to our British readers. The museum in CFB Shilo is rated some where around the Military museum in Ottawa. Unfortunatly it is stuck out in the middle of the praries. The building it is presently in, used to be the gun shed for 3 RCHA. I can well remember doing a few parades in there. It has out standing displays of weapons and military mementos of time past. Shilo is also considered the home post of the R.C.A. At one time it was also the school for the Military Police, the training area for the German Army, had the jump tower for air born training, and I was unlucky enough to have been posted there twice.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   19/5/2013, 13:30

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif


Nice photograph Bob. This is one of myself and youngest Grandson in front of the Gun that won WW2, the BL 5.5in Medium Gun, taken at the |Royal Artillery Museum, Woolwich.
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   19/5/2013, 14:25

ritter wrote:
BAOR(CIB)
Attention: Gunners et al
The picture below was featured in the Waterloo Region Record, Kitchener, ON in the Saturday edition of the Victoria Day holiday weekend 18-20 May 2013. It was taken at the Royal Canadian Artillery Museum at CFB Shilo, a two-hour drive from Winnipeg in southwestern, Manitoba. The picture provides a rare frontal view of an artillery SP gun called the "Priest" because of its unique pulpit like structure shown on the left side. The pulpit was manned by a gunner with a mounted machine gun. The artillery piece is a 105mm howitzer.


The picture is of special interest as the 19th Fd Artillery Regiment RCA was issued this SP during the campaign from DDay through France, Belgium, Holland, and Germany. The 99th Fd Battery of Wingham, North Huron Township, ON was activated from 21 Fd Artillery Regt RCA as part of the 19th Fd in WW2.
Ubique
Gnr Ritter

Nice picture, Ritter.
Apparently the Brits asked the Yanks to produce a 25pdr-mounted version of the Priest but they turned the order down because they wouldn't produce an SP that didn't have an American gun.
The Brits asked Canada to help and-behold, the Sexton was born !
The first WW2 Brit SP was the Bishop but its turret restricted the gun's elevation.
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ritter
Maj
Maj
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   19/5/2013, 20:09

BAOR(27CIB)
Hardration, Shelldrake & Brum,
It was my feeling that the picture of the SP gun, dubbed the "Priest", would generate some responses from the RA & RCA gunners in the BAOR forum. Thanks to Hardration for fleshing out further details about the RCA Museum at CFB Shilo. I have never been to Shilo, MAN.
Thanks also to Shelldrake for providing the hyperlink to the very fine photograph of himself and his young grandson in front of a very famous gun taken in the museum at Woolwich, UK.
Brum, as expected, provided some very interesting details about the evolution of the development of the SP guns in the RA and RCA. The Priest, the Sexton, and the Bishop SP guns in WW2 all had significant ecclesiastic names. One of the main duties for a Sexton in the Anglican church is to arrange for the burial of deceased parishioners in the church graveyards. The job of the Sexton SP's was to bury the enemy. Bishops are very high officials in the church and are ordained by God. Both sides in both of the World Wars made it abundantly clear that God was on their side. German belt buckles all had the inscriptions,"Gott mit uns".

And on our side, the motto of the RA and RCA is very clear about the righteous and Godly nature of their mission with an ecclesiastic ring:
Ubique
Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
"Everywhere, Wither Right and Glory Lead"

The picture above is the flag of the Royal Canadian Artillery not the colors. In the RA and RCA the colors are the guns.
Amen
Gun Ritter

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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   20/5/2013, 09:50


Still keeping to church - related names, let's not forget "Abbot".

I've been inspired to dig into Ian V Hogg's "The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Artillery" and have found a 17pdr - mounted SP called "Archer". It's spoken well of but was redundant by the early 50s.
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 87
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   20/5/2013, 11:32

brum wrote:

Still keeping to church - related names, let's not forget "Abbot".

I've been inspired to dig into Ian V Hogg's "The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Artillery" and have found a 17pdr - mounted SP called "Archer". It's spoken well of but was redundant by the early 50s.


Ah ! The old Archer ........ 17 pdr on a Valentine chassis and still around in BAOR in my time. Mounted to fire backwards, over the rear end, but not when it was trundling along at 15 mph. max as the recoil would have separated driver's head from body.

And still on the church theme & before Archer, there was "Deacon", a typical Brit compromise which saw a 6 pdr AT mounted on a cut down Matador chassis. Used in WW2 up to the end of the war in North Africa in 1943. And that WAS before my time !
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   21/5/2013, 04:27

In 1970 while posted in CFB Petawawa we had to practise for a parade in the 4 RCHA drill hall. They had a 25 pdr that was being refurbished over in one corner. Now remember we were Sigs not RCA people. Being winter time many thought this item of gunnery made a fine coat rack for parka's and great coats. MISTAKE! (My previous time attached to Artillery saved me a sinful error) This 4 RCHA Sgt limped out on to the drill floor (I knew him from 2 SSM Bty and knew why he limped) And very forcefully and with great accuracy explained to the lads about the RCA colours and to remove their items of winter apparel before their world came to an end. Incidentaly this Sgt. had been crushed between an Honest John Handling Unit and 5 ton long wheel base, lucky to be alive.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   21/5/2013, 18:07

Shelldrake wrote:
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif


Nice photograph Bob. This is one of myself and youngest Grandson in front of the Gun that won WW2, the BL 5.5in Medium Gun, taken at the |Royal Artillery Museum, Woolwich.

We loved that gun and we were very good at using it.
The spirit went out of the regiment when we lost the 5.5s and got that bloody missile.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   22/5/2013, 06:40





Just for you, Brum. Mad Mad
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   22/5/2013, 12:24


Cheers pal ! Twisted Evil

The background looks a bit like Reinsehlen don't yer think ?
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   22/5/2013, 14:01

It could be but I think the Launcher could be American, we weren't allowed shiny ones!! Sad Sad
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   25/5/2013, 00:37

http://i80.servimg.com/u/f80/12/23/35/46/dcp_2011.jpg

A Canadian one. Long after it's day. This is in CFB Shilo.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   25/5/2013, 11:40

Hardrations wrote:
http://i80.servimg.com/u/f80/12/23/35/46/dcp_2011.jpg

A Canadian one. Long after it's day. This is in CFB Shilo.


Sacrilege!! Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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brum
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FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   25/5/2013, 12:03


Do my tired old minces deceive me or is that a 51 (Kabul 1842) Bty cipher I see on the door of that launcher ?
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   25/5/2013, 12:54

Shelldrake wrote:
Hardrations wrote:
http://i80.servimg.com/u/f80/12/23/35/46/dcp_2011.jpg

A Canadian one. Long after it's day. This is in CFB Shilo.


Sacrilege!! Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

True Shelldrake. That particular launcher was the AB Launcher one of two that were with 2 SSM (Trg) Bty RCA in CFB Shilo. It was taken out of service in 67 or 68. In 1974 it was moved to a display area in Shilo with various artillery pieces from WW 1 and WW 2. Then brought over to the RCA Museum in 2007 to be re-furbished. This is the same launcher in 1963. Yours truely standing beside it.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   25/5/2013, 13:11

That's much better, I see that one has it's Electric Blanket on, they were looked after better than the guys who served them! Laughing
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   25/5/2013, 13:35


I bet it was 76 Bty that nicked the fins ! Suspect
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   25/5/2013, 13:49

They are not fitted until X -20! Embarassed Embarassed
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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   26/5/2013, 21:49

BAOR(27CIB)
Attention Gunners et al,
This is a final response, perhaps, to the thread about the SP artillery guns used in WW2 by the RA and RCA. It is also an acknowledgement for the contributions to this thread by Brum, Cartav, Hardrations and Shelldrake. Most of the SPs shown (the colors in the artillery) repose in museums in the UK and Canada.
The FV433 Abbot

The model shown above had a fully rotating turret housing a 105mm gun and was built by Vickers. This picture was taken at the Firepower Museum in London, UK
The Archer SP 17pdr Valentine Mk1

The Archer was issued first to the RA rather than the Royal Armoured Corps in WW2 but it was later used by the Royal Armoured Corps in the BAOR during the early 1950's. There is an Archer on display at the Bovington Tank Museum in the UK.
The Bishop


The Bishop was the result of a hurried decision to create a SP gun on a Valentine chassis with a 25pdr gun. It was built by the Birmingham Carriage and Waggon Company in 1941 and was used in the North Africa campaign. It was a short lived failure.
The Deacon

The Deacon was an armoured SP with a 6pdr anti tank gun built on the chassis of an AEC Matador truck and was built in 1942 for the North Africa campaign. Its name fitted in with the style of naming SP artillery with ecclesiastical titles.
The Sexton

The Sexton was a tracked SP with a fully rotating 25pdr gun based on an American tank chassis. It was built in Canada for the RA and RCA and was a replacement for the Priest.
Sources for the information and pictures:
Wikipedia Google, yahoo, Yahoo de, suchmaschinen
Picture processing courtesy Photobucket
Gnr Ritter

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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   27/5/2013, 11:05


Thanks for that Ritter.
A small point on Sexton. According to Ian V Hogg's book, a Canadian-built tank, based on the Sherman and called "Ram", was altered to take the 25 pdr.
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 87
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   28/5/2013, 10:47

brum wrote:

Thanks for that Ritter.
A small point on Sexton. According to Ian V Hogg's book, a Canadian-built tank, based on the Sherman and called "Ram", was altered to take the 25 pdr.


Nicely done Ritter ! Swinging the lamp. pulling up a sandbag, I can remember the SEXTON with 5 RHA (or was it 4 RHA?) at Dodesheide Bks in Osnabruck in the mid- '50s. One point though, I don't think the 25pdr. was on a fully rotating mounting and the pic shows it had limited traverse.

And Brum........ Confirmed SEXTON was on RAM running gear. which was also used to carry the KANGAROO APC. I wouldn't query anything by Master Gunner Hogg, who is one pace behind God as far as I' m concerned, but my refs tell that RAM was developed from M3 Grant/ Lee underpinnings and these became surplus when RAM was discontinued after M4 Sherman became available. Suppose bottom bits of M3 & M4 could be the same anyway, looking at the pics.
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   28/5/2013, 10:54


I bow to your greater knowledge, cartav. Hogg's book doesn't go into the subject that deeply.

Given the gun's restricted traverse, I imagine the driver would have to be close by in case they were given a big switch !
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 87
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   28/5/2013, 11:28

brum wrote:

I bow to your greater knowledge, cartav. Hogg's book doesn't go into the subject that deeply.

Given the gun's restricted traverse, I imagine the driver would have to be close by in case they were given a big switch !


Apologies for being picky ! I guess that limited traverse problem occurs with
ARCHER too and the driver wouldn't have wanted to be seated when the thing recoiled.......... and maybe you or Sheldrake could tell how you went on with 5.5s. Looks like a bit of a lump to swing around when there's no turntable like the 25pdr. Didn't have any bother with the Bristol Bofors, it was all done by one layer pushing buttons.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2991
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba   28/5/2013, 15:26

We put a big wooden pole (The name escapes me) in either side of the trail, lifted it up and manoeuvred it where required - we were young and fit in those days! Laughing
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