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 Warendorf 1948

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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Warendorf 1948   3/10/2013, 14:30

Trying to find my grandfather Martin. He was based in Warendorf 1948. Th only regiment i could find is :
The brigade signal squadron had been resident at warendorf (near munster) in 1948. It moved to Bad Lippspringe and later that year to soltau.
I dont have a clue how i can get more informations about it or how i can find anyone who was stationed there in 1948.
I hope anyone can help me. Thank you
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JPW
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Number of posts : 1039
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Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   3/10/2013, 21:24

Katherina

Cuxhaven Steve is our resident expert on the Munster/Paderborn/Iserlohn area but I recently sent him details of the move of 7 Armoured Division out of Schleswig Holstein in summer 1946.

This included the move of Headquarters 22 Armoured Brigade to Warendorf where they were to stay for a time before moving back north onto the Luneburger Heide area

Steve may have more details, I will alert him to your query.


Last edited by JPW on 4/10/2013, 07:49; edited 1 time in total
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   4/10/2013, 07:21

Thank you very much, JPW. It means a lot to me.
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   4/10/2013, 15:41

Katherina

Welcome to the forum all I have at this time is the same information as yourself…but this could need correction…thanks to JPW’s research we know that the HQ of 22 Armd Bde command 7 Armd Div moved to Warendorf Airfield in Jun 46…but did stay long and moved to York Barracks Münster date unknown but there by Feb 47…but then they moved to Bournemouth Barracks Soltau and renamed 7th Armoured Brigade by Apr 47 when there was a major reorganisation of BAOR then Münster came under command of 6 Inf Bde of the newly formed 2 Inf Div

So you can see 1948 does not fit with Warendorf my theory is that the movements could have been for 7 Armd Div Sig Regt not the brigade…needs more research

If my memory serves me correctly there was a forum member with a journal of 22 Armd Bde Sig Sqn just after WW2 when 7 Armd Div was in Schleswig-Holstein…will try and track it down for you

If is almost impossible to trace military personal unless you have at least the regimental number…unless a forum member turns out to have served with Martin…do you have a surname?
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   4/10/2013, 21:01

My aunt isnt sure about the surname but it could have been Smith she said. But she isnt 100% sure. His approx. dob is between 1927 and 1931. Thank you for your time and answer. I really appreciate your help.
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Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   5/10/2013, 12:19

What was the location of this "Warendorf" airfield? In My time (1979 1988) there was the active Telgte field between Munster and Warendorf, Greven airport up towards Osnatraz and two old Luftwaffe sites nearer to Munster.
No 4 Petroleum Depot was always called "Warendorf although the nearest village/town was Everswinkel
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   5/10/2013, 13:51

I am trying to find out. I will call the Telgte Airfield on Monday. I do not have a clue if there were any other airfields around.
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dml34
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 12:42

From information that I collected at the PRO about 20 years ago, it seems that HQ 7 Armd Bde was at Warendorf on 15 April 1948. On 16 Oct 1948, it was in Bad Lippspringe, so it must have moved sometime between these dates. This matches up with Katherina's dates..........

Dave

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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 14:12

Dave

Thank you for this information

I will have to check out the relevant Historical Records for 7 Armoured Division during my next visit to the National Archives in Kew
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 14:13

Thank you guys...maybe i will find him one day with all this help i have.
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 16:28

steve wrote:
Katherina

Welcome to the forum all I have at this time is the same information as yourself…but this could need correction…thanks to JPW’s research we know that the HQ of 22 Armd Bde command 7 Armd Div moved to Warendorf Airfield in Jun 46…but did stay long and moved to York Barracks Münster date unknown but there by Feb 47…but then they moved to Bournemouth Barracks Soltau and renamed 7th Armoured Brigade by Apr 47 when there was a major reorganisation of BAOR then Münster came under command of 6 Inf Bde of the newly formed 2 Inf Div

So you can see 1948 does not fit with Warendorf my theory is that the movements could have been for 7 Armd Div Sig Regt not the brigade…needs more research
With the various documentation put together by JPW and myself we present the following deleting an earlier comment

“Warendorf Airfield” was first occupied by HQ 3 Inf Div Jun 45 being command 1 Corps District moving south from Lüstringen east of Osnabrück as this area then came under command 30 Corps District

Aug 45 – 3 Inf Div moved to Ghent Belgium on their way to UK replacing 52 (Lowland) Inf Div who moved into “Warendorf Airfield” from Ghent (recorded in Mountain and Flood history of the division)

May 46 – 52 (Lowland) Inf Div moved north to replace 3 Can Inf Div CAOF replaced by 22 Armd Bde of 7 Armd Div with responsibility for Kreis Munster and Lippe and moved to York Barracks Münster by Mar 47

Apr 47 – 2 Inf Div was formed from 53 (Welsh) Inf Div with HQ 6 Inf Bde York Barracks Münster so appears no move to Bournemouth Barracks Soltau and renamed 7 Armd Bde but back to Warendorf still 22 Armd Bde the Jul 47 historical records confirm

As JPW has pointed out more research is needed

On my early 1950s Telgate map there is an airfield is known as “Ehem. Flugplatz Handorf” but cannot find a “Warendorf Airfield”

"History is a mystery and only as good as those who wrote it down"
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 16:57

Thank you very much guys. It means a lot to me. I just dont know whereelse i can get more information. My english isnt good enough for a lot of phonecalls to england. Someone told me they have this war imperial museum. And they have pictures of every squadron and regiment and so on. Maybe they have informations about the time in warendorf 1948 aswell
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JPW
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Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 17:10

Katherine

The best source of accurate basic information on the British Army in Germany is th Military Department of the National Archives in Kew

Cuxhaven Steve and I have been working as a partnership for almost four years now seeking information on the units and their locations which formed the British Army of the Rhine in1945 and their history

There are other possible sources of information but I am afraid that without the exact name of your grandfather it is going to very difficult for you to find out more.
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 17:34

I spoke to my aunt again. She said that she is quite sure that his surname is Smith. Martin Smith. She doesnt know if he had a middle name.
Can you give me a full adress of this Military Department in Kew? Or do they have a homepage?
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 17:48

Katherine
Have a go here
https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
As Kew does not hold personal information
Best of luck
Steve
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 17:52

Am i a next of kin!? Shocked 
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alan8376
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Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 20:38

Re: NoK.   No, if your Mum is alive.  Yes, you will be if she has passed on!
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   7/10/2013, 20:41

no my mum is dead and my dad too....i am not sure which form i have to take Neutral 
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   14/11/2013, 11:39

steve wrote:

If my memory serves me correctly there was a forum member with a journal of 22 Armd Bde Sig Sqn just after WW2 when 7 Armd Div was in Schleswig-Holstein…will try and track it down for you
Katharina
Thanks to Jimsigs now have a great scan on the newspaper...22 Armd Bde Signals was later renamed 7 Armd Bde Signal Squadron...also a friend who lives close to the Royal Signals Museum is going to check the Wire the Royal Signals magazine for the late 1940s for any other details on 22/7 Armd Bde...in the meantime will email you the newspaper sent by Jimsigs
Best regards
Steve
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katharinareimann83
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   14/11/2013, 13:32

Thank you so much Steve. Thats amazing xxx
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   14/11/2013, 17:17

You must thank Jimsigs he dug it out...
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steve
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Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   25/9/2014, 12:09

Jul 46 – HQ 22nd Armoured Brigade of 7th Armoured Division arrived at Warendorf (there was an airfield there and have the grid reference to the north-west of the town) replacing HQ 4th Armoured Brigade, 22nd Armoured Brigade Signal Squadron was located with the brigade and was 4 Squadron, 7th Armoured Division Signal Regiment, the brigade was renamed 7th Armoured Brigade Jan 47, the squadron was not in barracks but located in requisitioned civilian houses

Feb 48 – 7th Armoured Division disbands and 7th Independent  Armoured Brigade came under command of Hannover District, with responsibility over a wide area from Oldenburg and Luneburg in the north, down to Münster, Hamm and Minden in the south, the brigade HQ and signal squadron moved to Kurpark Bad Lippspringe late 48

Mar 49 – 7th Armoured Division Signal Regiment reforms from Hannover District – HQ and 1 Squadron were in Trenchard Barracks Celle, moving to Caithness Barracks Verden Nov 50, 7th Independent Armoured Brigade Signal Squadron becomes 4 Squadron and moves to Bournemouth Barracks Soltau May 50

2 Squadron was formed from the disbanded 4th Army Group RA Signal Squadron in Worcester Barracks Lüneburg, becoming HQRA

3 Squadron was formed from 31st Independent Infantry Brigade Signal Squadron in Goslar, later moving to Worcester Barracks Luneburg when HQRA moved to Shiel Verden with the Divisional HQ

Information received from Kew documentation for 1st Corps District and the Wire magazine, Katherine if I find a reference to Martin Smith will let you know

Regards
Steve
study
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   25/9/2014, 20:51

Steve

Thank you very much for this, some very useful additions to my Schleswig Holstein data base as well as the amendments to our joint 7 Armoured Division data base

Am intrigued by your reference to the Kiel ATS Signals Company in your PM to me, first time I have seen reference to this unit
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   26/9/2014, 09:00

From Jul 45 each Corps District HQ had an ATS Company, for some reason with 8 Corps at Kiel rather than Plöen, perhaps due to a repeater station being there, the Wire magazine had good write up on the ATS in BAOR forming the WRAC in early 49
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: Warendorf 1948   26/9/2014, 11:20

Steve

Probable explanation for the ATS Company being in Kiel rather than Ploen is
1. Shortage of accommodation.
a. HQ 8 Corps moved into the Schloss in the centre of town
b. The Royal Navy in the form of HMS Royal Alfred had moved into the Naval Barracks across the lake previously occupied by Headquarters 6 Guards Armoured Brigade.
c. As a result Headquarters 4 Armoured Brigade who replaced the Guards had to move into the nearby village of Ascheburg

2. Workload
The military/naval presence was huge in Kiel and undoubtedly the Royal Signals had requisitioned the Civilian Telephone System which would have to have operated on a 24 hour system, the ATS must have provided the majority of the manual switch board operators working on a three shift system.

Next task for Alan 8376 and I with our contacts with the Stadt Archivist is to find out where the ATS were housed (alternatively the Kiel Journal may have the answer)
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