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 Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?

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unclevanya
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Number of posts : 228
Age : 72
Localisation : Essex UK
Cap Badge : R Sigs
Places Served : 11 Sigs Vimy 'C' Catterick Nov 1963), 224 (Radio) Sig Squadron Garrats Hey, Quorn Leics( Jan-June 1964), 16 Sigs Bradbury Barracks Krefeld July-Oct 1964), 28 (BR) Sigs St Tonis & 4 Squadron, Tongeren (Cafe Maddy) (1964-1968), HQ UNFICYP Nicosia 6 month tour (1966), HMS Jufair & Hamala Camp Bahrien, 223 Sig Sqn (Radio) Winchester, Norn Ireland, HQ Northag Kolsas Olso Norway, 11 Sigs Helles Lines Catterick, Civvy Street 1977, Retired (Grumpy Victor Meldrew 2012)
Registration date : 2012-07-15

PostSubject: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   9/12/2013, 17:43

The recently reported and naming of a British Soldier after being Court Martialled for 'murdering' a Taliban prisoner - was this a justified matter in law; or do any old soldiers feel that there might be some sort of witch hunt for alleged wrong doing by UK Military in recent years by the Liberal Left who have never been enamoured with the trade that soldiers, sailors and airmen follow.?

I jest about this. But things that were done in the past (WW2, Korean War, Malaysian Emergency, Northern Ireland), that some of our more Liberal 'powers that be' are on a guilt trip to find peoples to spew their bile on, and the Armed Services are an easy target. Perhaps our Lords and Masters want to put themselves through 'guilt fests' to satisfy their own 'Guilt' about Britian's Imperialistic past in various places. Perhaps some idiot will demand a trawl through various record offices for likely 'suspects' to pillory in public. What with the Human Rights act 1998, and various other 'matters' that Labor and Tory governments have tied the UK to, really makes one wonder jsut if the inmates of the asylum are running things. One understands that there are some outstanding investigations into the Iraq war, and UK soldiers behaviour there?

Our elected politicians decide to send our military into the firing line, and then complain when things go belly up in a war situation, as they always do, and expect the military to take the flak for politicians errors of judgement.

Such issues as Somali pirates operating off the Horn of Africa, our Royal Navy have to bring these people aboard the ship, and if they cannot offload them at nearby port, have to bring them back to the UK for due process. Any other countreis such as the Russians, French, Indian navies involved in anti-piracy patrols, usually machinegun any pirate boats and sink them - problem solved. Should the UK adopt similar tactics, or will we have the Liberal Human Rights crowd bleating adn whining about things?
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gingerjim
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Places Served : blackdown brackley , belgium . viersen
Registration date : 2011-03-21

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   9/12/2013, 19:17

taliban somali pirates whatever . they are enemies so just shoot the buggers , ginger
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Dulaigh
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Number of posts : 126
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Places Served : Catterick Newark Aldershot 201Shorncliffe WinterbourneGunner TOS SHARJAH Bunde 249 Singapore NE Thailand Aldershot Catterick
Registration date : 2012-03-19

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   9/12/2013, 20:33

I wonder how his family will do in the meantime ? whilst he is in nick.
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cartav
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Number of posts : 783
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Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   10/12/2013, 17:05

War is a dirty business, I'm afraid. When rules are broken, the winners usually make a fuss about the opposition and ignore their own side's deficiencies. Brits, apparently, have an urge to discredit their own side too, show they are not afraid to admit to unacceptable behaviour by their own soldiers.. Incorrectly by the book, Sgt Blackman acted as many others have done, and might do in a similar situation. He has my sympathy even though it wasn't a heat of the moment thing. In addition, he was guilty of an error of judgement by forgetting or ignoring that everything was recorded on camera and when, with just a whiff of any impropriety, the media would rejoice, fill their pages and newscasts whether promoting a sympathetic stance or not.

I don't know what procedure is followed when audio & visual records are handed in .......... somebody in authority must have blown the whistle, somebody made out the 252, the unwritten law about looking after your own seems to have been ignored. The decision to bring charges was strictly correct, hopefully it wasn't a " His neck or my neck " reaction by whoever examined the records.

It's unfortunate, downright idiocy, to publish names when nutters out there could seize on such information for their own ends. I've a feeling that this episode won't end at this juncture. There'll be more rejoicing in the ranks of the media with the prospect of a campaign to stir up even greater public sympathy. With an appeal in prospect, I'd be surprised if Blackman serves the ten year minimum in gaol, I'm sure the Royal Marines will offer discrete support for his family, I hope they'll remain safe.

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"john boy"
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Registration date : 2010-12-30

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   10/12/2013, 17:56



Name the characters  Evil or Very Mad

Just another scapegoat i thinks
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PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   11/12/2013, 07:49

Cartav Brum and Shelldrake.

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cartav
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 783
Age : 87
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   12/12/2013, 15:12

There was another incident reported on TV a couple of days ago. I must admit I missed most of the detail and, to date, I've not seen anything in the press.As far as I can remember, it referred to 11 squaddies from the Yorkshire Regt who refused an order to come to attention. Something about a speed march with full packs, a couple of senior officers who'd had a snifter or two too many and a formal parade........... don't quote me on these half heard details. Not quite in the " I'll soldier no more" category and a kit burning exercise on the square, I gather, but a couple of JNCOs lost their tapes and the rest got invites to a less than welcome party in a detention establishment. Strange that the press have remained silent to date. Maybe that's a welcome change of attitude.,

Any comment which corrects my interpretation of events would be appreciated.
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Shelldrake
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Localisation : Camberley
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Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   12/12/2013, 15:49

Cartav, it was reported in several Newspapers but, the Daily Heil do it soooo much better!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2520937/Soldiers-stage-mutiny.html?ico=home%5Emostread
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PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   12/12/2013, 15:54

Yorkshire Regiment soldiers jailed for sit-in


Fifteen soldiers have been jailed after a court martial for staging a "sit-in" in protest at being "led by muppets".

The men from the 1st Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment sat on the floor when ordered to stand to attention.

The protest by 16 soldiers was sparked by grievances with their captain and colour sergeant. It took place in February while on exercise in Kenya.

Fifteen were sentenced to detention, one of whom was dismissed from the Army. A 16th was also dismissed.

All the soldiers pleaded guilty to disobeying a lawful command - an offence that carries a maximum sentence of 10 years' imprisonment.

'Not appreciated'
The soldiers complained of being "led by muppets", the court martial heard.

The prosecutor at the court martial said members of the platoon had been seething at the way they were being managed, and felt that they were "not appreciated".

The court heard a captain and sergeant apparently got drunk before a lengthy training march in the Brecon Beacons last winter.

The troops were said to have been furious at finding their two commanders asleep, rather than greeting the soldiers as they crossed the finish line.

Tensions came to a head at the end of a training exercise in Kenya in February, when 16 soldiers decided to protest.

Ahead of a parade, a ringleader shouted "sit down" and members of the platoon did so. The commanders ordered each man in turn to stand up, but were ignored.

'Public protest'

Corporal Anthony Brown, said to be the ringleader, was stripped of his rank, dismissed from the Army and sentenced to 60 days' detention.

Two lance corporals were reduced to privates and sentenced to 60 days' detention, while a third was reduced to private and dismissed without detention.

Twelve privates were sentenced to 40 days' detention.

The soldiers were in the 1st Battalion at the time of the protest. However, the 1st has now become the 2nd, following Army restructuring.

John Wilson, a retired colonel and former editor of the British Army Review who lectures in military history, described the nature of the soldiers' protest as "unprecedented".

The sentences given to the troops at the court martial were "strong enough to make the point", added Col Wilson.

"I don't think a corporal, whatever his grievances, can expect to orchestrate such a public protest in front of the entire battle group parade and get away with it."

An Army spokesman said it was "not appropriate" to comment on the sentencing.
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 87
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   13/12/2013, 10:39

Thanks for the info Gordon & Shelldrake........... Interesting reading which I must have missed.
I must say I felt unappreciated at times, but I was never tempted to do anything about it. Except have a good moan, of course and that usually resulted in mates having a laugh.

Sounds as though the 16 might have had a justifiable gripe. but overstepped the mark and the muppets got away with it.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2992
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   13/12/2013, 14:33

Whatever happened to the "Carry out the Order and complain afterwards". If memory serves, anyone who did that was usually told by the BSM to Foxtrot Oscar. Laughing Laughing 
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 87
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   14/12/2013, 10:57

[quote="Gordon."]Yorkshire Regiment soldiers jailed for sit-in

The men from the 1st Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment sat on the floor when ordered to stand to attention. [quote]


Probably the chief muppet forgot to prefix his order with "Simon Says "



[quote =Shelldrake ]

Whatever happened obey the order & complain afterwards ? [quote]


A brief line or two to the "Daily Mirror" usually did the trick in the early days,, but that, too, could incense the BSM. ( for the uninitiated in non-teeth armed units, the " B" is for "Battery" not "B..... d". Both forms equally correct.
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
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Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   14/12/2013, 11:16

I know the press have a right to attend Courts Martial but it must've been a slow news day for them to feel the urge to print this crap.
In my time I've seen a few situations similar to the above which were dealt with very quickly, (and often violently!).
I've often wondered though, how do they maintain discipline, in an army that springs from a society that has very little ?
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2992
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Forces Witch Hunt or a breach of the Geneva Convention?   14/12/2013, 12:13

Wouldn't have happened in Bessie Braddocks' day!! Rolling Eyes 
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