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 borstal

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"john boy"
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 939
Age : 55
Localisation : shrewsbury
Cap Badge : acc
Places Served : aldershot/albermarle bks ouston-father LI- gib- berlin NI- lemgo- colchester- shrewsbury-tidworth left82
Registration date : 2010-12-30

PostSubject: borstal    9/1/2014, 16:51

YO fellas was it true that some misfits delinquents of the 70s-early80 instead of borstal the were offered army service ? Razz 
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PostSubject: Re: borstal    9/1/2014, 17:55

I thought you were one of them Johnboy Very Happy


Last edited by Gordon. on 10/1/2014, 08:20; edited 1 time in total
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"john boy"
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 939
Age : 55
Localisation : shrewsbury
Cap Badge : acc
Places Served : aldershot/albermarle bks ouston-father LI- gib- berlin NI- lemgo- colchester- shrewsbury-tidworth left82
Registration date : 2010-12-30

PostSubject: Re: borstal    9/1/2014, 18:16

Gordon. wrote:
I thought you wr Very Happy  Very Happy te one of them Johnboy Very Happy 

Cheeky bugger  affraid 
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"john boy"
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 939
Age : 55
Localisation : shrewsbury
Cap Badge : acc
Places Served : aldershot/albermarle bks ouston-father LI- gib- berlin NI- lemgo- colchester- shrewsbury-tidworth left82
Registration date : 2010-12-30

PostSubject: Re: borstal    9/1/2014, 21:37

What I am asking is was going into the army an alternative to being banged up in borstal ... Borstal to Basic training mind you borstals were run by mostly ex military guys couldn't have been fun to say the least  affraid 
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1041
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: borstal    9/1/2014, 22:09

John boy

I am pretty certain that there was a long tradition of the use of the phrase "Will you accept a jail sentence or join the Army?" in local Magistrates Courts
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
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Number of posts : 3003
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: borstal    10/1/2014, 08:15

JPW wrote:
John boy

I am pretty certain that there was a long tradition of the use of the phrase "Will you accept a jail sentence or join the Army?" in local Magistrates Courts


Normally to people arraigned before them on suspected poisoning raps. They were then made to join the ACC. Smile Smile 
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: borstal    10/1/2014, 08:19

john boy wrote:
YO fellas was it true that some misfits delinquents of the 70s-early80 instead of borstal the were offered army service ? Razz 

I can't speak for the 70/80s but a kid in our troop, (name of Radcliffe), in '58, was given the choice. I believe there were others too.
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BobG
Lt Col
Lt Col


Number of posts : 328
Age : 78
Localisation : Northumberland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: borstal    10/1/2014, 17:25

I believe that by the 70s Borstals had been phased out together with any option of joining up. They were replaced by Young Offenders Institutions.
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Dan M
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Number of posts : 111
Age : 62
Localisation : Mississauga
Cap Badge : The Royal Canadian Regiment
Places Served : 1977-80, London ON, Gagetown NB
Registration date : 2010-03-22

PostSubject: Re: borstal    10/1/2014, 18:46

To a person who only speaks North American English, could one of you fine gentlemen please explain to me why young offender's institutions were called Borstals?

I remember watching episodes of Rumpole of the Bailey and continually getting Borstal Boy and Barrow Boy confused. Along with (after watching Minder) ponce, punter, monkey, pony, readies etc.

Cheers,
Dan.
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gingerjim
Col
Col


Number of posts : 487
Cap Badge : raoc
Places Served : blackdown brackley , belgium . viersen
Registration date : 2011-03-21

PostSubject: Re: borstal    10/1/2014, 19:48

the first borstal got its name from the village of borstal near rochester in kent , thats how borstals evolved , we had these places in dover , aldington all over kent and the uk , all known as borstals , you could really call them public schools ,as it was the public that got banged up in them , ginger
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jimsigs1
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1298
Age : 83
Localisation : West of England
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

PostSubject: Re: borstal    10/1/2014, 20:20

The Criminal Justice Act 1982 abolished the borstal system in the UK, introducing youth custody centres instead. When I was at school in the 1940's, the threat was always there, made by school teachers etc if we didn't behave ourselves.
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Dulaigh
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 126
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick Newark Aldershot 201Shorncliffe WinterbourneGunner TOS SHARJAH Bunde 249 Singapore NE Thailand Aldershot Catterick
Registration date : 2012-03-19

PostSubject: Re: borstal    11/1/2014, 20:11

In the fifties it was NOT a choice. When the miscreant saw his brief he would be made aware of the possibility of his enlistment for three years . If he chose this course he would take a letter to his new OC who dealt with the matter. No further charges ensued and he had a clean record. We referred to them as "Magistrates Choice" in my Basic Trg unit in Catterick. This was one of the reasons why we went from the old Army to the new Army 1960 and so a higher quality of regular enlisted. The boys and Apprentices could not provide the numbers.
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suffolk lad
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 7
Age : 78
Localisation : Framlingham Suffolk
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Oswestry,Rhyl,Dortmund Woolwich Benbecula
Registration date : 2013-12-07

PostSubject: Re: borstal    11/1/2014, 20:57

brum wrote:
john boy wrote:
YO fellas was it true that some misfits delinquents of the 70s-early80 instead of borstal the were offered army service ? Razz 

I can't speak for the 70/80s but a kid in our troop, (name of Radcliffe), in '58, was given the choice. I b
elieve there were others too.


Brum you are correct about 58 as when i was in 31 regt at Rhyl we had 3 bods in our troop who had been placed in the army instead of going to borstal,not the brightest in the bunch as they had all been through 10 weeks training when i joined the troop,and still there when i left after failing to pass their driving test.
I guess thats why NS men got the idea that alot of the regulars were considered to be abit thick? what do you lot think!.
Mick..
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: borstal    11/1/2014, 21:40

The National Service blokes called us regulars "Thick" because we were staying in the army for a long time, by choice. A lot of those NS men found themselves back in their humdrum civilian lives wishing they had stayed in the army.
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
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Number of posts : 3003
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: borstal    12/1/2014, 12:07

I recall guys with Swallow tattoos just behind their thumbs, apparently this signified that they were "Borstal Boys". Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad 
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: borstal    12/1/2014, 13:48

Dan M wrote:
To a person who only speaks North American English, could one of you fine gentlemen please explain to me why young offender's institutions were called Borstals?

I remember watching episodes of Rumpole of the Bailey and continually getting Borstal Boy and Barrow Boy confused.  Along with (after watching Minder) ponce, punter, monkey, pony, readies etc.

Cheers,
Dan.

Nobody living outside the London area should be allowed to watch "Minder".
As well as the slang words you've mentioned Dan, Londoners use a language called "Cockney Rhyming Slang. For example "Barnet", (Hair) rhymes with Barnet Fair. "Daisy Roots", (Boots) and a thousand other instances.
CRS is used frequently in "Minder" and in the late 70s, while stationed in London, I would take note of the more obscure bits of CRS and discuss them with my bombardier next day.
I remember Arfur Daley commenting once that his "Germans" were freezing.
"Germans" is CRS for hands but it took a lot of head scratching before we realised "Germans" was from "German Bands" which rhymes with "Hands".
Another one was the result of Terry telling someone he was a "Pain in the Gregory".
Now "Gregory" is CRS for "Neck". Hands, (or Germans), up those who figured it out. "Gregory Peck" - "Neck".
There's also "Hampton" but we won't pursue that one !  Embarassed 
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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 966
Age : 84
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: borstal    12/1/2014, 18:42

Yeah! me and my oppo often used to take a ball of chalk up the frog and toad to get a pint of river ooze at the local rub a dud dub. Then it was back to the trouble and strife for a bit of 'ow's yer farther.

Len (Ciphers)
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