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 HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT

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JPW
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Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
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PostSubject: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    5/5/2014, 16:34

Help please

As long standing members of this site will know I am the point of contact for all matters concerning the Royal Navy's presence in Germany in the immediate post war period.

Over the years we have developed a pretty comprehensive list of Royal Navy "Stone Frigates" or Shore Establishments. However Pborn3 has just produced documentary evidence of a real wild card and totally previously unknown unit "Torpedo Depot Herford" which was occupied by a Royal Navy Naval Party from July 1945 till November 1946 under command HMS Royal Albert , the major Royal Navy Headquarters in nearby Minden.

There are absolutely no known details of this former Kriegsmarine facility but I would guess it may have been a central storage depot where inert torpedo shells were sent by manufacturers throughout Germany for collation and despatch as required to the major U Boat bases of Emden, Kiel and Wilhelmshaven and The French Atlantic coast such as Brest or L'Orient. Separate arrangements would have been made for the explosive warheads or fuel.

We do have a number of contributors who have served in the Herford area. Any thoughts as to possible location and responsibilities would be gratefully recieved (I am certain it was not Harewood or Wentworth Barracks but a more rural location). I also appreciate we have no contributor who was serving in BAOR in 1945/46!!


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Shelldrake
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PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    6/5/2014, 08:24

[quote="JPW" I also appreciate we have no contributor who was serving in BAOR in 1945/46!!



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PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    6/5/2014, 08:28

Cartav affraid 
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JPW
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Number of posts : 1004
Age : 75
Localisation : Berkshire
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Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    6/5/2014, 10:05

Thanks to some magnificent detective work by Pborn3 it seems highly likely that the establishment in question was the Weapons Factory (MUNA) at Eseplkamp north of Lubbecke, west of Minden. Why the Royal Navy should have called it HERFORDTorpedo Depot is one of life's mysteries yet to be resolved
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JPW
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Number of posts : 1004
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Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    7/5/2014, 17:37

Another possible option might be the former Hitler era Wehrmacht Ammunition Storage site to the east of Herford known as Stuckenberg (the woods close to the Autobahn). The actual ammunition storage bunkers were destroyed in 1945 but the area was fenced off to civilians for many years later. It might have been used as a low level backdoor training area or QUICK TRAIN/ACTIVE EDGE Crash out location.

Comments from the "usual suspects" would be welcome.
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Pborn3
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Places Served : Oswestry, Paderborn, Barnard Castle, Catterick, NI, Bristol, Cyprus, Munsterlager, NI,Sennelager , NI , Rge Control/STC Sennelager/ GSU Sennelager as Civvy
Registration date : 2013-09-23

PostSubject: Stuckenberg near Herford   23/5/2014, 13:02

Fenced off compound, former ammo store, on a wooded hill, near Herford - sounds like the kind of place R Signals might use for rebro or such, perhaps Ciphers came across it in his early service days?
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ronnie french
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PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    24/5/2014, 13:58

I remember taking ammo there from the railway station in 3tonners in 1956,i was stationed at harewood bks with the 12th l.a.a,r.a
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Mike_2817
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PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    31/5/2014, 10:53

Weapons Factory (MUNA) at Eseplkamp was reported to be Nazi Germany's secret Atomic Bomb factory

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread993532/pg1


Video of MUNA Factory today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iuEgca_IAE0

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Pborn3
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Number of posts : 134
Age : 70
Localisation : Porta Westfalica
Cap Badge : RA
Places Served : Oswestry, Paderborn, Barnard Castle, Catterick, NI, Bristol, Cyprus, Munsterlager, NI,Sennelager , NI , Rge Control/STC Sennelager/ GSU Sennelager as Civvy
Registration date : 2013-09-23

PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    31/5/2014, 11:14

Looking at first link - above, the first paragraph:

On 4th April 1944 a unit of the British 8th Army fought surprisingly stubborn resistance at a small town 74 kilometres west of Hanover. Their mission was to capture a large ammunition dump there, but what a young NCO name Sanders found in an underground bunker sent shock-waves through Allied Governments.

- See more at: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread993532/pg1#sthash.4b1JuXuY.dpuf

reports of events a year before elements of 8th Army might legitimately be in the area. In 1945 large amounts of War Gases (filled shells, carboyles, packages of powder) were removed from MUNA Espelkamp and MUNA Sennelager by rail for sea-dumping in captured axis merchant shipping and outloaded from Emden.


The RN had another Torpedo Depot in Brussels - in the description of "Torpedo" RN included sea-mines, depth charges and naval explosive paraphernalia.
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PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    31/5/2014, 13:44

MUNA Sennelarger (Depot 90) became Replenishment Park Sennelarger run by the RASC then 44 (RP) Company RAOC in 1965

The rail link from Depot to main line were removed in 1966

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Last edited by Mike_2817 on 31/5/2014, 22:07; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    31/5/2014, 21:48

I must admit I read it as 8th Armoured Brigade not 8th Army which was in the Hannover area a year later in April 1945

MUNA means "Munitionsanstalt" or in English "ammunition institutions" or "Ammunition Depot" and I did take the report of a Nuclear Bomb Factory with a pinch of salt!

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munitionsanstalt

MUNA Espelkamp is also known as Lübbecke

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espelkamp#Die_Heeres-Munitionsanstalt_L.C3.BCbbecke


P.S. I use Google Toolbar which translates the pages into English.

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Last edited by Mike_2817 on 31/5/2014, 22:16; edited 1 time in total
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JPW
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Number of posts : 1004
Age : 75
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    31/5/2014, 22:08

Itook it to mean 8 Corps of 21st Army Group
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: HERFORD TORPEDO DEPOT    1/6/2014, 11:46

Not my subject post May 45 but thought I would throw in my bit...

Have a book by Monty "Normandy to the Baltic" the first paragraph should read 1945 not 1944 and Espelkamp is 90 km west of Hannover so could be two locations

JPW is correct 8 Corps were in the area...the line of advance to the south was just south of Minden to just north of Hannover with the 9th US Army to the south taking Hannover

8 Armd Bde was much further north command 30 Corps advancing on Bremen...the brigade did not occupy Hannover City until May 45 post VE day taking over from the Americans

Hope this helps  study
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Pborn3
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Number of posts : 134
Age : 70
Localisation : Porta Westfalica
Cap Badge : RA
Places Served : Oswestry, Paderborn, Barnard Castle, Catterick, NI, Bristol, Cyprus, Munsterlager, NI,Sennelager , NI , Rge Control/STC Sennelager/ GSU Sennelager as Civvy
Registration date : 2013-09-23

PostSubject: Naval Interests   1/6/2016, 15:12

See Royal Naval Parties:

1812                 ROYAL NAVY TORPEDO DEPOT – Herford, Germany 08-45 – 11.46 – amalgamated with NP 1749

(1816                 DSR Evacuation Team – Brussels 02.46/Lohne near Herford, Germany 03.46-06.47)

1749                 Flag Officer Berlin - *formed Princes Garden Kensington 02.45/ to Minden 06.45/there to 07.09.46, then to Hamburg* (reported as Norfolk Ho 04.43 – to DRYAD 26.06.44) 39 Princes Gardens, Kensington SW 7 03- 06.06.45/Minden 06 – 08.45 (Brit Naval CinC Germany & Staff 07.45)/ROYAL ALBERT 09.45- 06.51/(see also 1645 1812)

                       {ROYAL ALBERT opened Princes Gardens 01.01.45 – Commissioned 01.04.45, from Minden to Hamburg 15.09.46, to Cuxhaven 01.03.51, PAID OFF 16.07.57)

The Royal Navy had its own agenda in  Germany -  The Naval Torpedo Depots were where captured ammo was stockpiled, examined, dissected.  Some material was destroyed by explosion at Ranges like Sennelager, other mateerial was loaded on to rail waggons for sea-dumping in german marine fleet ships which were being scuttled.  In addition Naval parties were on salvage and reconstruction work in captured dockyards - submarines were being used to generate power in many places, captured airfields were supplying huts and hangars, machinery,  and some interesting aircraft which were being shared in the vested interests of RAF and Fleet Air Arm (about to be renamed Naval Aviation).  http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/21/royal-navy-most-decorated-pilot-dies-erc-winkle-brown
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