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 CBUE Antwerp,Belgium

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SoestKinder
WOII
WOII


Number of posts : 78
Localisation : Canada.
Places Served : Soest,Bad Sassendorf,Iserlohn.
Registration date : 2015-10-07

PostSubject: CBUE Antwerp,Belgium    16/10/2015, 01:35

Out of curiosity, might anyone know anything about the H.Q. Canadian Base Units Europe!? I am looking for units that were stationed there from the 1950's till 1970's?


Here's a link that when I read it, didn't mention much regarding the units stationed there nor any personal strength, while posted there.

http://www.baor-locations.org/canada.aspx.html

Regards...

Christopher
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1028
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: CBUE Antwerp,Belgium    16/10/2015, 18:41

SoestKinder

A few years back a number of contributors to this site managed to construct a pretty accurate ORBAT/LOCSTAT for the Hannover based 27 Canadian Infantry Brigade through till the much reduced Soest based 4 Canadian Mechanised Brigade Group moved south to Lahr in the early seventies.

As I understand 4CMBG received the majority of its equipment and supplies through the British (BAOR) or NATO systems. Very little was supplied direct from Canada. HQ CBUE was therefore a very small unit with individuals trickle posted in from Canada or temporary detached from Canadian Logistic units in the Soest area.
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SoestKinder
WOII
WOII


Number of posts : 78
Localisation : Canada.
Places Served : Soest,Bad Sassendorf,Iserlohn.
Registration date : 2015-10-07

PostSubject: Re: CBUE Antwerp,Belgium    17/10/2015, 03:28

Hi JPW, I am familiar with the beginnings of 27 Cdn Inf Bde as my grandfather served with it for 2 years in West-Germany and my father served with the 4 Cdn Mech Bde, "Up North" in 1965 at Westphalia til 1969 when we had to move back to Canada, due to the massive defence cut backs in military spending in the late 1960's/Early 1970's. It was a grim era to be a soldier in ie, post 1971 from many of the conversations I've had with veterans who had previously had been Canadian soldiers in the 1950's and 1960's that served with BAOR. The Canadian Forts located in the towns of(Soest,Werl,Hemer,Isersoln) were well build and stood the test of time till 190's when the British and Bundeswehr Forces finally closed them in mid 1990's. Truly and end of a era.

The Govt of the day didn't seem to care and it left a bad taste in many mouths for decades later! (Integration 1964, then Unification 1968-hated and very destructive to our traditional pride in the three traditional services ie, customs and traditions went out with window and the hated CF green uniforms as well for the army and as well as the RCN and RCAF too!

A couple of books I could recommend for you to read to give you a real open account of what transpired from the Canadian perspective.

http://www.seanmmaloney.com/articles/i0012.html (Superb book) I lent my copy out and haven't got it back yet....5 yrs ago and counting.(Hence, never lend out any of your favourite books Rolling Eyes

https://books.google.ca/books/about/In_Retreat.html?id=GMYdAAAAMAAJ (Another good book to read and very controversial!)

http://www.warmuseum.ca/education/online-educational-resources/dispatches/canada-and-nato/
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1028
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: CBUE Antwerp,Belgium    23/10/2015, 10:37

Thank you for this lengthy interesting email and its suggested references. Sadly I don't think they are available in the UK and certainly not in my favourite military library in Aldershot

To compensate Canadian contributors to this site such as Bob Ritter (a Platoon Commander in the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry contribution to the then Hannover based 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion-your grandfather might have come across him), Dan Martell (who served with the RCR), Hardrations and others who provide a wealth of information based on personal experiences. Another unique contributor is Stephen Lock, now living in Calgary, the son of a Canadian soldier who remained behind working on the German economy for a time in both the Iserlohn and Lahr areas.

I also found the link into the Canadian Department of Defense Archives in Ottawa and have seen the Cabinet Paper Discussions which led to the formation of the 27 Infantry Brigade Group from Militia units (the small Canadian Regular Army was committed to providing a Brigade to the Commonwealth Division in the Korean War. There is also Report 51 records the formation and initial deployment of 27 Brigade in the period February 1951-May 1952.

The late 1960s was a sad time for both the 1st British Corps when the emasculated 4CMBG left for Lahr. The Brigade had been a highly respected part of NORTHAG and it was not just the loss of the excellent Canadian social facilities which was missed by the British. There is an excellent academic paper by Natascha Taschuk in 2007 which describes the impact of the changes in structure and deployment on 4CMBG.

Note your comments on the creation of the tri service unified Armed Force, as I understood the RCN were allowed to retain their traditional dark blue uniform when at sea, as a result practically every shore establishment was considered to have a seagoing capability and nothing changed. As I related elswhere I was in Cyprus in 1980 with UNFICYP, The LdSH were replaced by a Battalion of the PPCLI, who if I remember correctly were then based in Victoria BC. They too had flatly refused to abandon many proud Regimental customs and traditions. When challenged their reply was that the official mail system between Ottawa and the West Coast was notoriously unreliable and in any case as a proud Anglophone Battalion they did not understand French!!
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