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 SLR / SA80 or M16!

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Shelldrake
FM
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Number of posts : 2986
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   3/5/2012, 16:29

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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jimsigs1
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1298
Age : 82
Localisation : West of England
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   3/5/2012, 17:39

Gordon,

Is he always inebriated ? Looks like it if he has to choose Tibby Britain as his Avatar.
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PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   3/5/2012, 20:03

99.9% of the time Jim drunken The rest Sleep .... Laughing
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2986
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   4/5/2012, 05:31

Not forgetting. sunny sunny study study
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   4/5/2012, 09:01

Shelldrake wrote:

RSM Brittain, (I bet that's spelt wrong !).

Would I be right in saying that, in Quo's record "In the army now", that voice that screams "Stand up and fight", is he ?
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jimsigs1
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1298
Age : 82
Localisation : West of England
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   4/5/2012, 09:24

brum wrote:
Shelldrake wrote:

RSM Brittain, (I bet that's spelt wrong !).

Would I be right in saying that, in Quo's record "In the army now", that voice that screams "Stand up and fight", is he ?

Your right Brum, the late Ronald's name is spelt 'Brittain'
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   4/5/2012, 09:50

jimsigs1 wrote:
brum wrote:
Shelldrake wrote:

RSM Brittain, (I bet that's spelt wrong !).

Would I be right in saying that, in Quo's record "In the army now", that voice that screams "Stand up and fight", is he ?

Your right Brum, the late Ronald's name is spelt 'Brittain'

Thank you, SAH !
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PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   4/5/2012, 10:27

He played a Sergeant-Major In the" Amorous Prawn" and "They were not Divided"
A Commissionaire in "The Spy With A Cold Nose" and a kitchen warder in "The Criminal".
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jimsigs1
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1298
Age : 82
Localisation : West of England
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   4/5/2012, 10:48

Walking down the Edgware Road some years ago near Marlble Arch, I was looking in a shop window and stepped back right on the toes of RSM Brittain.He was the manager of this clothes shop. I apologised but he was human after all and he wished me well and said what a pity being tall I hadn't joined the Guards. !! can't win them all.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/5/2012, 10:10


Mike 2817
(Just thought I'd move this topic over to leave the "air" clear on the Sennelager thread).

I never had the opportunity to fire anything as exotic as the Ruger, sadly. In fact, the only shots I ever fired "in anger" were from an old RUC Smith & Wesson of WW2 vintage !

One interesting experience I did have though, was when our Padre (an international shot), arranged a range day, in Hemer, with a local Bundeswehr unit.
They fired our SLR & Browning pistol and we got a cabby on their H&K rifle and Walther P38.
The Germans thought the recoil on our SLR was a bit savage. I thought the P38 was beautiful !

That was a good day. Even my 12-year old son had a shot.
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 86
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/5/2012, 11:12

Shelldrake wrote:
YOU may call that a Gun, I would call it a piece of metal and wood that the Americans have left to rot and go rusty. Needs stripping back and redoing, I dread to think what the inside of the barrel looks like, needs a becket on the end. Disgusting bounce bounce

My time on 25pdrs was limited, too many bodies in one place for anyone who likes a quiet life, but I remember war service Nos 1 collecting up all the bits of silver paper from fag packets & such. Don't know if this is still practiced, but they shoved a ball of the stuff between shell and cordite on the last shot of the day. Saved a lot of that boiling water drill they had to do, they said.
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Wilf
Lt Col
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Number of posts : 314
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/5/2012, 19:12

brum wrote:
Mike_2817 wrote:
The Carlie G Sub-Calibre L1A2 device most will remember looked like a 84mm HEAT round and fired a 6.5mm Tracer Round - this being the Swedish small arms calibre

There is a later version, still used (the FFV553B) which uses standard 7.62mm Tracer plus a small cartridge to simulate back blast.

On the subject of sub-calibres, did anyone have much to do with the Heckler and Koch device that fitted into a SLR ? It had a .22 barrel and its magazine fitted inside that of the host rifle.

The idea was (I think) that a shooter could zero this rifle on a miniature range while at the same time save on 7.62 ammo.

It was thrown at me to "evaluate" in the mid-70s but was then promptly withdrawn by the RQMS.

We once used SLRs fitted with sub-cal devices on an indoor range shooting at a projected moving immage, a sort of indoor CQB I suppose, cant remember where that was, I think I was probably posted to Soltau at the time but cant remember where the range was.

Also used the sub-cal device fitted to the 66mm, not very realistic. The best shots with the sub-cal were rewarded with a heat round to fire off down the range at a huge block of concrete with the silhouette of a tank painted on it, that was at Hohne c1980.
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Wilf
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Number of posts : 314
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/5/2012, 19:20

Daveb wrote:
Just as an aside, has anybody ever seen a 7.62 cook off in any sort of weapon?.

No, but I've burnt my hand on an LMG.
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jimsigs1
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1298
Age : 82
Localisation : West of England
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/5/2012, 21:03

We used the sub-calibre devize for the Carl Gustav. I think one was for indoor range and tracer was used for outdoor ranges.
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 86
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/5/2012, 21:23

[quote="brum"][quote="Mike_2817"]

On the subject of sub-calibres, did anyone have much to do with the Heckler and Koch device that fitted into a SLR ? It had a .22 barrel and its magazine fitted inside that of the host rifle. [ quote ]


We used SLR sleeved for 0.22 in the mid-1970's on an indoor CQB at Swynerton, Staffs. Only a one off after using up all the PE3 doing dems in the area, but something chucked in to fill an hour or so in the day's trg. prog. Can't remember much about the 0.22 mag, but the cartridge had enough oomph to self load. I'd be surprised if it was used for zeroing, and I'd guess that aperture in the backsight was much too large in diameter for grouping at 25 yd.

A 25 yard range might give the lads some familiarisation with SLR before going full bore, but we zeroed both No. 4 Enfield & SLR by sticking an empty 20 Cig packet on centre of bull of the old 4ft square target at 100 yds.






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ciphers
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 952
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/5/2012, 21:39

Same with the SMLE (.303) .. as cadets in the late 1940's we used to practice on the indoor range with SMLE with a Morris Tube fitted and fire .22.
Taught you how to handle the old rifle well, except for the kick.

Len (Ciphers)
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pete26
Capt
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Number of posts : 209
Cap Badge : R.E.
Places Served : Farnborough, Hohne, Ulster, Berchtesgaden,Chatham..
Registration date : 2012-04-29

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   12/5/2012, 00:13

ciphers wrote:

Taught you how to handle the old rifle well, except for the kick.

Len (Ciphers)


And that, to use a pun Len, was the 'kicker'.

It was the recoil that needed practice.

I remember firing the LMG at Ash ranges, and literally bouncing across the floor on the hard ground when firing.

The SLR was a man stopper.

The SA80 is a man injurer.

The theory I believe is that when you kill a man theres nothing you can do for the chap. If you injure them, you need about 4 blokes to get them to safety and med help. So it takes more men out of action ?
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ciphers
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 952
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   12/5/2012, 01:12

Ash Ranges, boy that bring back memories as a youngster.
Thats where I fired my first weapons when in the Hampshire Regt Cadets, then the Royal Hampshire Regt, then the Parachute Regt Cadets. SMLE, Bren and the bloody PIAT.
Great times growing up 14 - 17, spent most weekends at Aldershot on some course or another, never had time to be a delinquent .. that came later.

Len (Ciphers)
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2986
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   12/5/2012, 05:02

ciphers wrote:
Ash Ranges, boy that bring back memories as a youngster.
Thats where I fired my first weapons when in the Hampshire Regt Cadets, then the Royal Hampshire Regt, then the Parachute Regt Cadets. SMLE, Bren and the bloody PIAT.
Great times growing up 14 - 17, spent most weekends at Aldershot on some course or another, never had time to be a delinquent .. that came later.

Len (Ciphers)

Len, I live within spitting distance of Ash Ranges. I can hear the guys from the Army Training Regiment, Pirbright firing on the Ranges most days, it warms the cockles of my heart, especially when it's raining! Laughing
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brum
FM
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   12/5/2012, 11:15

pete26 wrote:

The theory I believe is that when you kill a man theres nothing you can do for the chap. If you injure them, you need about 4 blokes to get them to safety and med help. So it takes more men out of action ?

A mate of mine, when we were in Junior Leaders, had a wartime pamphlet on dirty fighting that his uncle had given him.
On the first page it said "Don't kill your enemy, put him in hospital - he's more trouble that way".
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Wilf
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Number of posts : 314
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   29/10/2013, 09:54

I was recently talking to a young soldier from the Rifles who said they were using the H&K G36! Can anyone shed any light on this, have we finally dumped the bullpup configuration?
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oldman1952
LCpl
LCpl


Number of posts : 5
Localisation : Scotland
Cap Badge : RCT then RAMC
Places Served : JTR Rhyl, 4Div RCT Duisburg, 29 Field Ambulance Obernkirchen, Canada, Northern Ireland, Berlin, Cyprus, 1 Medical Group Donnington
Registration date : 2013-10-29

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   30/10/2013, 17:05

I was brought up with the SLR and loved every minute of it. I'm left handed too and short armed. I had the armourer put a short short butt on for me. Then there was the good old GPMG, you could cut a tree down with that one. You can keep the SA80, it was just the same as the SMG for me being left handed. I did however teach field craft and weaponry to cadets, so had to use it the best I could to demonstrate the principles to them. I did prefer the SLR for drill.
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oldman1952
LCpl
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Number of posts : 5
Localisation : Scotland
Cap Badge : RCT then RAMC
Places Served : JTR Rhyl, 4Div RCT Duisburg, 29 Field Ambulance Obernkirchen, Canada, Northern Ireland, Berlin, Cyprus, 1 Medical Group Donnington
Registration date : 2013-10-29

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   30/10/2013, 17:43

Hi Wilf, a few specs for you. G36E is a general NATO weapon 5.56mm round with a mag of 30 rounds. muzzle velocity 920 m/s and fires up to 750 rounds per min. There is also a machine gun version very similar but holds a drum instead of a magazine. The drum holds 100 rounds.
The G36 K is shorter in length and is made for close combat work and weighs 3.0kg
The G36E is longer and is used as a general purpose infantry weapon of choice and weighs 3.3kg
The MG36E is the machine gun. Drum ammo connects to the rifle in the same way as the magazine in the magazine housing. It can even fire grenades. Hope that puts some light on the matter. Plus it weighs 3.45kg . All have folding butts.
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cartav
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 783
Age : 86
Localisation : s. yorks
Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR)
Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   31/10/2013, 15:52

oldman1952 wrote:
I was brought up with the SLR and loved every minute of it. I'm left handed too and short armed. ...........
Me, I'm an Enfield fan....... No.4 that is , not the Snider thing which we did fire once when we shared the range with a civvy rifle club........ Much more accurate than SLR & we zeroed them by shooting at a 20-fag packet stuck in the middle of the bull on a 4 ft. target. But was SLR left handed shooter friendly ? Didn't the empties eject a bit close to the sniffing tackle ?
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Wilf
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Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   31/10/2013, 16:11

I'm a fan of the old elephant gun as well, strip & assemble the bloody thing in the dark, knew it better than the wife. However, the young soldier I was speaking to from the Rifles told me they were equipped with the G36 so my question was: has the army finally dumped the idea of the bullpup rifle?
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