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 Armoured Command Vehicle

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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 962
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   22/2/2009, 18:53

This is an AEC Armoured Command Vehicle Signals Centre as used by 6 Armoured Division Signals circa 1953/56, it weighed in at 21 tons and had a 6x6 axle base. Each brigade in the division had one as standard equipment. This particular unit was at HQ 20 Armoured Brigade at Munster and I was its crew chief for 2 years. It carried a crew of Ten, crew chief (Sigs Office Supt), driver, switchboard op, ciphers (2), Sigcen (3), base lineman, Fuller phone/wireless operator, a bit crowded even for a pig of this size.

Ciphers



Ciphers is the "Full Screw" Crew Chief



Some beast!!



Cutaway view of the beast
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wrinkles
SSgt/CSgt
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Number of posts : 62
Age : 74
Localisation : Birmingham, UK
Cap Badge : Mercian Brigade, 1st Bn Worc Rgt
Places Served : Uk, Honduras,Tripoli, BAOR, UK, Tobruk, Gibraltar, short stints in Canada, USA, Barbados & Dominica
Registration date : 2007-05-15

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   23/2/2009, 09:37

I don't recall seeing any of those, no doubt long gone by the time I was in Baor in 62. By then as command vehicles we had the venerable "Pig" or Humber 1 ton armoured. As 1 Worc Rgt, Signals Cpl I had command of the HQ pig which was kitted out with the usual C42 and 62 wireless sets with a crew of 4 or 5(when doing nothing else CO's driver/signaller manned the sets). To cater for the influx of brass when "O" groups were in progress the HQ vehicle was kitted out with a canvas awning that unfolded from the roof and was supported by a series of steel bars and poles. These were a real joy to assemble on a cold wet night in the middle of a forest. We spent many an hour practising erecting this thing and marking each section with a number to assist the assembly. Invariably, having got thoroughly frozen and soaking wet assembling the thing The "O" group would last 15 minutes and we'd then have to pack it all up again and move half a mile up the track for a repeat performance. Command vehicle crew was viewed as punishment by most. In winter they were less than comfortable. Although there was a heater for the awning area which meant the engine had to run to power it, very little heat was generated and little of that got into the vehicle itself. In fact all that armour made an excellent heat exchanger, any heat was exchanged for cold in short order. In general it was a pretty rugged go anywhere vehicle that served the purpose with out any frills.
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nobby clark
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Number of posts : 102
Age : 70
Localisation : manchester
Cap Badge : 1R.Hamps / RAOC
Places Served : baor-Hong Kong-Malaya-Borneo-Belize-F.I.-Cyprus-N.I.-UK.
Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   23/2/2009, 14:34

Aah,the old armoured Pig,the APC of choice as you did'nt have another way back in '64.
Many happy memories of being chucked about in the back on a cross country run. Shocked
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wrinkles
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Number of posts : 62
Age : 74
Localisation : Birmingham, UK
Cap Badge : Mercian Brigade, 1st Bn Worc Rgt
Places Served : Uk, Honduras,Tripoli, BAOR, UK, Tobruk, Gibraltar, short stints in Canada, USA, Barbados & Dominica
Registration date : 2007-05-15

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   23/2/2009, 16:23

The one pictured looks somewhat naked when I was accustomed to seeing them festooned with antenna, cam nets, canvas, Masts, generators and umpteen jerry cans. It is also devoid of the side boxes, for the uninitiated these were a series of lockable storage compartments running along the length of the pig from the doors to the rear. These were an absolute necessity for the storage of beer and extra, borrowed, ration packs. They were lined with empty sand bags, beer stowed then covered with more bags and finally filled with water. Cooling by evaporation did the rest to provide cold beer for the evening. Non alcoholic of course Sir, (cough!). As for the ride, yup at full chat over the plains of Saltau or Osnertraz they did tend to buck a bit but then compared to a Bedford 3 tonner doing the same I know which one I'd choose. Very Happy
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Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   23/2/2009, 17:39

On the main site now Ciphers.

Paul.
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ciphers
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 962
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   23/2/2009, 17:44

Roger that Good Buddy (as they say in Yankee Land) ...

Ciphers
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nobby clark
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Number of posts : 102
Age : 70
Localisation : manchester
Cap Badge : 1R.Hamps / RAOC
Places Served : baor-Hong Kong-Malaya-Borneo-Belize-F.I.-Cyprus-N.I.-UK.
Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   24/2/2009, 10:41

wrinkles wrote:
The one pictured looks somewhat naked when I was accustomed to seeing them festooned with antenna, cam nets, canvas, Masts, generators and umpteen jerry cans. It is also devoid of the side boxes, for the uninitiated these were a series of lockable storage compartments running along the length of the pig from the doors to the rear. These were an absolute necessity for the storage of beer and extra, borrowed, ration packs. They were lined with empty sand bags, beer stowed then covered with more bags and finally filled with water. Cooling by evaporation did the rest to provide cold beer for the evening. Non alcoholic of course Sir, (cough!). As for the ride, yup at full chat over the plains of Saltau or Osnertraz they did tend to buck a bit but then compared to a Bedford 3 tonner doing the same I know which one I'd choose. Very Happy


See what you mean Wrinks,ours used to have what I can only describe as a roof rack welded on,all packs and other kit not wanted on voyage were tied down up there.
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Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Humber "Pig"   24/2/2009, 10:47

Was there any truth in the rumour that the "Pigs" had been sold, and had to be re-purchased for use over here?

I seem to remember that story going around just after I first came across them in 1971.

Paul.
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wrinkles
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Number of posts : 62
Age : 74
Localisation : Birmingham, UK
Cap Badge : Mercian Brigade, 1st Bn Worc Rgt
Places Served : Uk, Honduras,Tripoli, BAOR, UK, Tobruk, Gibraltar, short stints in Canada, USA, Barbados & Dominica
Registration date : 2007-05-15

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   24/2/2009, 10:58

I couldn't verify that but would imagine it to be very probable as during the late 60's the pig was replaced by the 4.6.2(?)or whatever the new APC was called. The changeover was probably completed just before the NI situation blew up(no pun intended). It is more than likely that the pigs were all on their way to the knackers yard when it was discovered that tracked APC's were not suited to NI for whatever reason.
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Locator
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 45
Age : 73
Localisation : Stamford, Lincs
Cap Badge : RA
Places Served : Munsterlager, Dortmund, Bergen-Hohne, Larkhill, Celle, as well as NI (x4), Canada, Paris and Catterick
Registration date : 2008-08-15

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   24/2/2009, 12:05

As I recall, the AEC ACV 6 x 6 was in service until 1960 by which time it was realised that it had become a "signature" vehicle which would indicate Bde and Div HQs on recce photos. It was replaced by the Humber 1 Ton Armoured (Pig) which by then had become the standard kit for every Armd unit in BAOR and was used as an ACV for RAC/RA/RE but as an APC by Inf. Alongside this was the Alvis Saracen 6 x 6 ACV/APC which lasted until about 1976.The tracked ACV/APC, namely the AFV 432 and all its variants came in from about 1964 onwards and is still in service in Afghanistan/Iraq today allbeit with new clip on armour, an new power pack and running gear.
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nobby clark
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Number of posts : 102
Age : 70
Localisation : manchester
Cap Badge : 1R.Hamps / RAOC
Places Served : baor-Hong Kong-Malaya-Borneo-Belize-F.I.-Cyprus-N.I.-UK.
Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   25/2/2009, 14:50

I believe a good number of Pigs had to be repurchased when the NI troubles started.
I remember seeing a train of flatbeds going through Swindon station loaded with Pigs,probably heading for Wales to be melted down for steel,this was around '68/69.
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PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   26/2/2009, 09:44

I remember being told the same story about re-purchase of our NI Pigs.

The reason one of media perception.

Although it had become clear that some form of protection was needed to implement C&C during riotous assemblies, the trusty 432 could not be used. Having tracks, it would be perceived by the world media as a Tank! No one wanted to see the newspaper headline "Tanks On The Streets Of Belfast!"

So the Good Old Humber "Pig" was re-purchased as it had wheels instead of tracks. This must have been organized by someone with no knowledge of the vehicle because the very distinctive engine signature would haunt the streets and nightmares of the Province for years to come.

Just a bit of a give away when screaming into position for an early morning "knock-up"!
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PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   26/2/2009, 10:12

Hi CertaCeto and welcome
Tanks did appear in NI for Op Motorman Jul 72 four Centurion AVREs from 26 Armd Engr Sqn Hohne landed cleared barricades in Londonderry back on to the landing craft and HMS Fearless the words ROYAL ENGINEERS were painted down both sides to show the media as tanks were no go for NI
Steve study
Lurgan 72-73
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PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   26/2/2009, 11:06

Hi Steve - Good to Meet You and Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   26/2/2009, 12:01

ciphers wrote:
This is an AEC Armoured Command Vehicle Signals Centre as used by 6 Armoured Division Signals circa 1953/56, it weighed in at 21 tons and had a 6x6 axle base. Each brigade in the division had one as standard equipment. This particular unit was at HQ 20 Armoured Brigade at Munster and I was its crew chief for 2 years. It carried a crew of Ten, crew chief (Sigs Office Supt), driver, switchboard op, ciphers (2), Sigcen (3), base lineman, Fuller phone/wireless operator, a bit crowded even for a pig of this size.

Ciphers



Ciphers is the "Full Screw" Crew Chief



Some beast!!



Cutaway view of the beast

Hi Ciphers
Was there and updated ‘beast’ as seem to remember something similar on trial with Div HQs in the late 60s or was it this? confused
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ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 962
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   26/2/2009, 18:14

I'm not sure, I left BAOR in 1954 for the Far East, Korea and Japan, we certainly did not have any of the AEC's out there .. I have a feeling they were phased out by the late 60's. I know that AEC did have one previously called the Matador but never actually saw one and Morris had a similar type.

Ciphers
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Wilf
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Number of posts : 314
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   1/3/2009, 20:34

Carrying on from what Locator said...

Some vehicles were indeed indicators. During the first Gulf war I was attatched to 23 Engr Regt who were the breech regiment for 4 Armd Bde. The breech commander decided his sultan decorated with assorted antenna would identify him as a hot target so a couple of days before "G" hour he aquired a 432 and used that as a command vehicle instead. A sensible decision? well due to the amount of American armour that was pouring through it probably didn't make a lot of difference but it's easy to be philosophical after the event.
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Buzz
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Number of posts : 9
Age : 79
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : 1st Queens Dragoon Guards
Places Served : Bovington, North Africa, Perham Down, Castle Martin S. Wales, Wolfenbuttel W. Germany,Middle Wallop Wiltshire, Omagh N. Ireland.
Registration date : 2010-09-25

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   25/9/2010, 18:06

wrinkles wrote:
The one pictured looks somewhat naked when I was accustomed to seeing them festooned with antenna, cam nets, canvas, Masts, generators and umpteen jerry cans. It is also devoid of the side boxes, for the uninitiated these were a series of lockable storage compartments running along the length of the pig from the doors to the rear. These were an absolute necessity for the storage of beer and extra, borrowed, ration packs. They were lined with empty sand bags, beer stowed then covered with more bags and finally filled with water. Cooling by evaporation did the rest to provide cold beer for the evening. Non alcoholic of course Sir, (cough!). As for the ride, yup at full chat over the plains of Saltau or Osnertraz they did tend to buck a bit but then compared to a Bedford 3 tonner doing the same I know which one I'd choose. Very Happy

We used Saracen APCs
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jim
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
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Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   27/9/2010, 16:26

The AEC's were at HQ 1 (Br) Corps in my time, we called them screamers and they were used by the GOC. At 20 Bde, the brigadier had a command FV 432.
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Mike_2817
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Localisation : North Yorkshire
Cap Badge : RAOC
Registration date : 2009-08-27

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   27/9/2010, 19:20



Going back to the picture of the Humber Pig on page one, all the external boxes, Jerry Can Holders and top cage were striped off for Northern Ireland use so as to be a plain armoured body with no possible hiding places for a bomb etc. That one being a modified Mark 1 before extra armour was later fitted.


This is a un-modified APC 4x4 1 Ton (aka PIG) as used in BAOR (with a MkII NI Pig in the background)


This one being a MkII with Paddy Pushers fitted, as well as Smoke Dischagers on the roof


Model of MkII with 'Wings' [aka the Flying Pig - for crowd control and sealing off streets]

_________________
Sua Tela Tonanti


Last edited by Mike_2817 on 28/9/2010, 18:46; edited 1 time in total
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mjm34
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Number of posts : 262
Age : 67
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   28/9/2010, 16:41

Fabulous model of the "Flying Pig". Is it a conversion of the Accurate Armour 1/35 kit?

Shouldn't the "Paddy Pusher" bars be tubular though?

Mike
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Mike_2817
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Registration date : 2009-08-27

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   28/9/2010, 19:03

I have to agree with you Mike as the only flat 'Paddy Pushers' I can remember were a few gray painted RUC examples, before the Mk2 became more common, which were replaced with armoured landrovers in the mid 70's

Not my modal by the way, but I am told it is indeed a conversion of the Accurate Armour kit.

_________________
Sua Tela Tonanti
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brum
FM
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   28/9/2010, 20:59


All this talk about an armoured AEC reminds me of a time a bunch of us kids were shown a huge armoured vehicle and being told it was "Monty's Command Post". That might've been Bovington.
Re. the Humber 1 ton Armoured (I never heard it called a Pig until N Ireland). We had one in the early 60s which was used as a Rear Link, it replaced a Humber 1 ton we had which looked like a large Austin Champ. We loved it when it was used for duty truck, it had a synchromesh box, not like the bloody Austin 1ton !
Saw an immaculate Humber 1 ton armd at a recent transport festival. Sitting in the back with the engine running, the sound & smell of the exhaust, I was taken back to Belfast again !
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alan8376
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Number of posts : 397
Age : 69
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Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   28/9/2010, 21:29

What is it about armoured vehicles, even the 'Armoured 1Ton Pig'? They have a distinctive aroma/smell!

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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
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Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
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Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Armoured Command Vehicle   29/9/2010, 14:38


That "whistling two - speed genny too.

I signed for a brand-new 432 in '66, it had 13 miles on the clock. It smelt wonderful !
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