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 R.A.S.C 1944

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David30
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PostSubject: R.A.S.C 1944   8/4/2009, 21:25

My Grandfather Henry Byron served over in Belgium for the B.O.A.R
I hope someone can shed some light on the location and personel facts about the regiment,
I hope to find out because Ive heard the duties he had was of horrific proportions in Bergen belsen, I could not bring myself to ask him in his life time for this reason

The soldiers book scans and a photo of the fire brigade/ regiment

do you have any knowledge of this brigade?,any feedback will be much appreciated.

Regards David
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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   8/4/2009, 21:41

photo of the regiment...Henry is on the end 5th row up


Last edited by David30 on 9/4/2009, 17:36; edited 1 time in total
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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   8/4/2009, 21:50

Book scans
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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   8/4/2009, 22:06

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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   8/4/2009, 22:09

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ciphers
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Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   8/4/2009, 23:54

Well its a troop of Royal Signals in the photo, with a couple of Staff Officers front row seated ... and as they are wearing blue berets I would guess it was taken about 1949/50

Len
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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   9/4/2009, 17:45

Yes that makes perfect sense, Royal Signals '
The book also says unit 96 Army fire brigade, maybe he was part of (lancashire and Cheshire) Signals but that was formed in 1967? I wonder ..

All the best Len thank you so much for that information
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jerry
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Number of posts : 186
Age : 76
Localisation : Abergele
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Dortmund/Hameln/ Malaya FARELF Marchwood Aldershot Yeovil
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   9/4/2009, 22:13

Hi David the T/ in his army number denotes Transport
I can't see an RASC capbadge in the photo
My brother was RASC NS attached to the Fire Brigade in Manchester in 1951-53 this could have just been a fire fighters course.
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jerry
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Number of posts : 186
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Localisation : Abergele
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Dortmund/Hameln/ Malaya FARELF Marchwood Aldershot Yeovil
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   9/4/2009, 22:24


is this gramps
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ciphers
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Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   9/4/2009, 23:48

This is an interesting photograph .. there are three cap badges that are not Royal Signals, one is the Sgt seated extreme right with old style battle dress, then in third row behind seated officer extreme left there is a non Signals badge and the man immediately behind him, also non Signals wearing a khaki beret and old style battle dress. The SSM in the front row extreme left is also wearing khaki beret. The Signals switched from khaki beret to blue around 1949/50, but the cap badge was changed from the oval style surmounted by a Kings Crown to the new style Certa Cito badge with Kings Crown in 1946 ... as I say an interesting photo.

Len (ciphers)
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Locator
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Number of posts : 45
Age : 73
Localisation : Stamford, Lincs
Cap Badge : RA
Places Served : Munsterlager, Dortmund, Bergen-Hohne, Larkhill, Celle, as well as NI (x4), Canada, Paris and Catterick
Registration date : 2008-08-15

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   10/4/2009, 07:21

If Byron HC was called up in 1944, that would put his DOB at 1926 (perhaps). The papers show that he was discharged to UK in 1947 (aged 21 or 22?) having served in BAOR. So, theoretically, he could have been part of the logistics org at the liberation of Bergen-Belsen.

Turning to the photograph, I tend to agree with other commentators. But just look at the characters. You've got a real mix of age groups there. A few older Offrs and SNCOs - all with a few ribbons. The remainder are all younger with berets all over the place! Could this have been a TA unit around 1960 I wonder?
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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   10/4/2009, 10:51

Hi all commentators, on his cap there appears to be no
signal badge but some symbol of regiment on a black beret
Info I have been told: he was first recalled to training in Stafford for three
weeks in 1939 possibly then to Hastings to cross the English channel to Belgium


and then as Locator says part of the logistics org


I hope to try and get a definitive date on the photo
it will be in possession of some family member


Thank you again for this information



David
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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   25/4/2009, 03:25

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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   25/4/2009, 23:54

The pic looks very much like an independant signals troop with attached personel.It could be an annual admin inspection which would account for the staff officer, or a training course of some sort.
I have found a large number of army fire brigades during WW2 but no 96.
The fire brigades were RASC administrated,which again makes me think that it is a course pic,radio op perhaps

Although the "Jimmy" cap badge was changed in 1946 it was not on general issue untill 1948.

What is a W/Cpl?
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wrinkles
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Localisation : Birmingham, UK
Cap Badge : Mercian Brigade, 1st Bn Worc Rgt
Places Served : Uk, Honduras,Tripoli, BAOR, UK, Tobruk, Gibraltar, short stints in Canada, USA, Barbados & Dominica
Registration date : 2007-05-15

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   27/4/2009, 14:27

It would appear to be common rank. the only references I can find to W/Cpl is here http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/82/a3310282.shtml

or http://www.hglambert.co.uk/Col1Officers.htm Here

where the W/ applies to Sgt and Cpl, Lcp's get a P prefix. Very strange
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ciphers
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Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   27/4/2009, 16:56

Could also stand for War Substantive (Sgt/Cpl) .. Lance Cpl is an appointment not a rank so would not carry the prefix. I was Paid A/Cpl (Acting) A/Sgt (Acting) .. after probationary term my rank changed to S/Cpl, S/Sgt (Substantive).

Len
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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   27/4/2009, 19:48

Thanks again for your comments

I thought i should post a photo of his medals too

The information i seek is out there on the internet but im not willing to pay for any registration fee just yet before i converse with the right people like yourselves

Yes Gordon a training course inspection, but where? what regiment(mixed i guess)? what date exactly(i think between 44/47)?

thanks for the links Wrinkles, W/cpl might be Lance corporal as this link shows http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-4287900

David
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ciphers
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Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   28/4/2009, 00:15

David, are the medals previously posted the ones you mention above .. because there is a duplicate 1939/45 star included and only one is issued to an individual ..

Len
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David30
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   28/4/2009, 04:02

Len, the photo of the medals are all I have, one of the stars is probably from grandads friend i dont know the name of but i can find out, there are some other papers ive yet to include on here

the national archives has some interesting information & the imperial war museum, i should also mention that quite a few family members have served in the army, a great uncle was in the Irish guards surname Cunnah' my cousin Lee served in the gulf and is still in active duty, another cousin surname Glynn is with the marines, I like to keep record of these things my main hobby is ancestry i have a tree on ancestry.co.uk

Thanks again for the information

David
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PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   28/4/2009, 08:52

Quote :
Could also stand for War Substantive (Sgt/Cpl) .. Lance Cpl is an appointment not a rank so would not carry the prefix. I was Paid A/Cpl (Acting) A/Sgt (Acting) .. after probationary term my rank changed to S/Cpl, S/Sgt (Substantive).

Len

If i recall correctly there were,Local:Acting:Paid and Unpaid ranks or a combination of them,and substantive.The only prefix i ever saw in use was A/ for acting
Did you actually use the S/ Len? I would have thought it would have caused confusion with Staff Sergeant S/Sgt.
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jerry
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Places Served : Dortmund/Hameln/ Malaya FARELF Marchwood Aldershot Yeovil
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   28/4/2009, 14:13

Regarding the w/ My thoughs are that the original was L/CPL badly written, and someone with very little knowlege changed it to W/
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ciphers
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Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   28/4/2009, 17:00

No Gordon, the 'S' was not normally used but on occasion it was such as Regimental Part 1 and 3 orders, or on your Regimental Conduct Sheet where the prefix 'A' (Acting) or 'S' (Substantive) was a guide to the Officer when dishing out punishment. For instance a Capt or a Major could strip an Acting rank but not a Substantive rank, that was generally by higher command. I know, I've been there ....

Len
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TonyE
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Places Served : Hannover, Bielefeld, Camp Borden, Camp Petawawa, CFB Kingston, Korea, Soest, Cyprus, Lahr.
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   28/4/2009, 23:10

The RASC had two main functions supply and transport,those in the supply trades butchers ,storemen,bakers etc had S/before their regimental numbers,drivers were T/, there were also administrative clerks but I can't remember if they had a prefix,but I do believe that they were S/ also because they worked in the accounting of rations and POL products.
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Niner Zulu
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Places Served : UK / NI, BAOR, South Arabia, Singapore +
Registration date : 2009-03-30

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   9/5/2009, 17:52

TonyE wrote:
The RASC had two main functions supply and transport,those in the supply trades butchers ,storemen,bakers etc had S/before their regimental numbers,drivers were T/, there were also administrative clerks but I can't remember if they had a prefix,but I do believe that they were S/ also because they worked in the accounting of rations and POL products.

Copied from the RAOConline website >>>>

Remount - The department which procured and issued horses for the Army (Transfered to the RAVC in 1965)
Supply - Dealt with all supplies. (Transfered to the RAOC in 1965)
Transport - Provided all the Army's transport requirements except those catered for by-
Mechanical Transport - the motorised branch of the Transport section.
(Remainder formed the RCT in 1965 along with Maritime & Trains from the RE)

These four branches had the prefixes R, S, T or M respectively.

M/1 and M/2 prefixed men were in Mechanical Transport as electricians and fitters. M/2 could also be used as drivers.
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Paul
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Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: R.A.S.C 1944   9/11/2009, 20:10

Still trying to catch up with all the threads I missed in my absence.

I saw it mentioned that the prefix T was for Transport? Could the W in the rank have been for a trained Wireless Op?

Paul.
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