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 Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68

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Brianr
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   7/4/2013, 18:14

Thanks Marco,
I think I lived at No 10 but it was a long time ago!
You are correct individuals like the Doctor and Padre did often remain when major units changed over in those days.

With kind regards,

Brian
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PostSubject: QRIH Parade, Münster, 1983 Photos   18/1/2014, 20:12

First, let me give full credit for these photographs to Don Allen and his excellent photographic library of military kit, which can be accessed here.

The only caption from the library is what I provided in the title: QRIH Parade, Münster, 1983.
BAOR Locations indicates that the Regiment was at York Barracks in 1983 and a part of 4th Armoured Brigade.

Cheers,
Dan.

I believe that the Pipe Band is from the Irish Guards, who were quartered in Oxford Barracks, Münster, at the time and also a part of 4th Armoured Brigade.


Three Officers and one politician all marching out of step.  The aide is a Scots Guard.
Which unit is in the background?  Made up of AAC and others?


Yup.  Definitely the Irish Guards.




Fine body of men and horse.  Can anyone name the regiments on parade?  Left to right?
I'm going to say the Irish Guards are on the far right.


Parade markers.  QRIH full dress uniform, I'm guessing.



Last edited by Dan M on 18/1/2014, 23:11; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   18/1/2014, 20:29

Dan

I believe the Regiments on parade are the Grenadier Guards (red hat band), Coldstream Guards (white hat band) and Irish Guards (dark green almost black hat band)

Our Sheldrake correspondents will confirm but the Parade Markers could be Gunners

Parade could be a local variation of Trooping the Colour to mark HM Queen's Birthday.

Finally the composite Company could be from Brigade Headquarters. Sky Blue berets are Army Air Corps (AAC) not Army Catering Corps (ACC)
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   18/1/2014, 21:40

Is it safe to come out now ?
This site seemed to be suffering from Scaley Saturation for a while.
OK
The "Politician" pic.
Those in the background, black belts, could be a Light Infantry mob.
Those in civilian dress are probably members of ABBA.

The darker of the two horses is probably Shirgar, ( I wondered where that bugger had got to !).

From the left, (as far as I can make out), a Hussar Regiment, then Army Air Corps, then, (that hat, carrying SMG), looks like Scots Dragoon Guards.
Following them, the Right Marker is wearing a sash, they're carrying SLR, possibly INF.

"Parade Markers", red stripe on trousers?
Belligerent body language?
Yes, they're Gunners|/RHA !
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   18/1/2014, 22:06

Post Script

Thank you Brum for confirming the identity of the Parade Markers, note also the red/blue pennants (Gunner colours)

Any thoughts on the venue? If Munster, is definitely not the Loddenheide complex, am doubtful of York Barracks in Gremmendorf (dont remember a Church with a square steeple). My suggestion therefore would be Oxford Barracks in the west of the Stadt.

Regarding the Politician, if Munster, could be the Burgomeister. Behind him I think I recognise General Sir Michael Gow CinC BAOR, Comd NORTHAG in the early 1980s. A former Scots Guards Officer, this would explain the presence of an ADC from the same Regiment.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   18/1/2014, 23:47

Sorry about the ACC instead of AAC mix up.  Of course I meant the Army Air Corps.  Mea culpa.

I only suggested that the markers were QRIH because of the title created by the author.  I defer to the experts that the two soldiers are RHA.

Michael Gow is the one with red tabs?  He looks a lot like General Melchett from Blackadder Goes Forth.

The three units on parade are made up of two cavalry (standing at ease with SMG's) and one infantry (same with rifles).  One cavalry regiment has red caps while the next on has white cap bands.  They are probably from the same units which made up the 4th Armoured Brigade in 1983.

Below is a wikipedia photograph of the QRIH in 1983 during a Freedom of Münster parade.  They are wearing red (or scarlet) caps.  The cavalry regiment behind them have white cap bands.  I think it's safe to say that the red capped soldiers in the Don Allen photos are the QRIH.

All that's left to figure out is which cavalry regiment wore white cap bands.  In the wikipedia photo their Escort to the Guidon are carrying lances.

Cheers,
Dan.

This officer looks like Lieutenant George.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   18/1/2014, 23:59

17th/21st Lancers.
4th Armoured Brigade
Swinton Barracks, Münster in 1983

Lancers with white cap bands.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   19/1/2014, 06:08

Dan

Cancel my last, agree with you the white hatted unit is the 17th/21st Lancers

On Parade are representatives from the Munster based 4 Armoured Brigade ie

QRIH (red hats) York Barracks
17/21 L (white hats) Swinton Barracks
Irish Guards Oxford Barracks

Parade Markers could be from 2 Field Regiment RA Waterloo Barracks
Not yet identified is 1st Battalion Light Infantry Buller Barracks
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   19/1/2014, 10:00

Dan M wrote:

This officer looks like Lieutenant George.

All joking aside.
In this excellent picture, the QRIH and the Cavalry behind them, appear to be carrying SLR at the High Port for some reason, whereas the Gunners are carrying SLR with bayonet fixed at The Shoulder.
Apart from that, when I was in the Cavalry our personal weapon was the Sterling SMG. I can only think that these blokes carrying rifles would be something to do with the Northern Ireland situation at that time.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   19/1/2014, 15:46

Quote :
All joking aside.
In this excellent picture, the QRIH and the Cavalry behind them, appear to be carrying SLR at the High Port for some reason, whereas the Gunners are carrying SLR with bayonet fixed at The Shoulder.
Apart from that, when I was in the Cavalry our personal weapon was the Sterling SMG. I can only think that these blokes carrying rifles would be something to do with the Northern Ireland situation at that time.

If you look closely at the original photograph on the wikipedia site, at maximum resolution, you will find that the QRIH troopers are carrying SMG's with the bayonet fixed.  It fooled me when I first looked at it.

Why they're at Port Arms I can't say.  Maybe they're planning on 'doubling' through the town?

Cheers,
Dan.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   19/1/2014, 16:36

Dan M wrote:
First, let me give full credit for these photographs to Don Allen and his excellent photographic library of military kit, which can be accessed here.

The only caption from the library is what I provided in the title: QRIH Parade, Münster, 1983.
BAOR Locations indicates that the Regiment was at York Barracks in 1983 and a part of 4th Armoured Brigade.

Cheers,
Dan.

I believe that the Pipe Band is from the Irish Guards, who were quartered in Oxford Barracks, Münster, at the time and also a part of 4th Armoured Brigade.


Three Officers and one politician all marching out of step.  The aide is a Scots Guard.
Which unit is in the background?  Made up of AAC and others?


Yup.  Definitely the Irish Guards.




Fine body of men and horse.  Can anyone name the regiments on parade?  Left to right?
I'm going to say the Irish Guards are on the far right.


Parade markers.  QRIH full dress uniform, I'm guessing.



I suspect that the Parade was held to commemorate the Battle of Balaclava, judging by the lack of GSM (NI) medals, the two "Markers" are from Kings Troop RHA. I can't understand why, in the second photograph, the lad in civvies is standing on the soldiers head? Mad 
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   19/1/2014, 18:21

Further investigation shows that 1LI were on an OP BANNER Tour in West Belfast throughout Summer 1983.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   19/1/2014, 20:40

JPW wrote:
Further investigation shows that 1LI were on an OP BANNER Tour in West Belfast throughout Summer 1983.

Look at what they missed!

Cheers,
Dan.

PS:  Excellent find, by the way.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   19/1/2014, 21:15

[quote="
I can't understand why, in the second photograph, the lad in civvies is standing on the soldiers head? Mad 
[/quote]

Furthermore, the unit of the soldier on who's head he is standing, do not appear to be carrying weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   19/1/2014, 21:52

Brum

If my source is correct 2 Field Regiment arrived in Munster in February 1982 having been Support Regiment at Larkhill. Its previous OP BANNER Tour had been in 1977. L Battery of the Regiment was to start an OP BANNER tour in August 1983

I think the two Parade Markers were from the Regiment and not from the St Johns Wood London based King's Troop
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 08:13

Could it be a collection of photographs from different parades? The building behind the Markers doesn't look "German" to me?
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 10:21

JPW wrote:
Brum

If my source is correct 2 Field Regiment arrived in Munster in February 1982 having been Support Regiment at Larkhill. Its previous OP BANNER Tour had been in 1977. L Battery of the Regiment was to start an OP BANNER tour in August 1983

I think the two Parade Markers were from the Regiment and not from the St Johns Wood London based King's Troop

My old regiment, I was with them on the '77, (Lurgan), tour but left soon after.

I imagine that there was a small cache of the RHA uniform somewhere, I think the RA Mounted Band wore it but I don't recall ever seeing men dressed like that on BAOR parades.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 12:04

brum wrote:
Dan M wrote:

This officer looks like Lieutenant George.

All joking aside.
In this excellent picture, the QRIH and the Cavalry behind them, appear to be carrying SLR at the High Port for some reason, whereas the Gunners are carrying SLR with bayonet fixed at The Shoulder.
Apart from that, when I was in the Cavalry our personal weapon was the Sterling SMG. I can only think that these blokes carrying rifles would be something to do with the Northern Ireland situation at that time.

The officer is a Major McCurragh who was C Sqn Ldr QRIH at that time.

I took this picture and I posted it on Wikipedia.  I'm ex QRIH btw and thanks to JPW for making me aware of this thread.

I confirm the cavalry are carrying SMG's but they are not being held at the "high port".  That's actually the "shoulder arms" position for SMG.  It was held across the chest by the right hand and the left hand gripped the barrel jacket when at the halt but swung when marching.  It looks odd if you haven't seen it before but to us cavalrymen it was normal.

The bayonet drill had to be worked out with Pirbright for the parade because no pre-existing drill could be found in any manual.  

As I was at that parade, in uniform as a spectator I can tell you most of what you want to know.  I confirm it was the Freedom of Munster parade 1983.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 13:43

I stand corrected !

The first man in No2 Dress, in the right hand file, looks for all the world like he's holding a SLR to me. (There again, I've never seen a Sterling with a bayonet fitted).

Looking closer I can now see what DanM was referring to.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 14:19

brum wrote:
I stand corrected !

The first man in No2 Dress, in the right hand file, looks for all the world like he's holding a SLR to me. (There again, I've never seen a Sterling with a bayonet fitted).

Looking closer I can now see what DanM was referring to.

We didn't hold bayonets in the armoury AFAIK, for any weapon.  I'd say the 17/21st were the same.  Those bayonets were provided for the parade and were probably passed around from unit to unit when freedom parades were popular.  Either that or they were specially chromed for that occasion (it's got to be one or the other hasn't it?).  

The problem with the picture, which led to your misidentification is that the original, which I have at hand, was a snapshot size print.  The negative however, which I still have, was very good as the image was taken using a Zenith E 35mm.  It cost me £40 as I remember and, although it was very much seen as a cheapo camera, was recognised as a good, practical hobbyists tool.  One of several such cameras which came out of the Soviet Bloc at the time.  

I also took a few other pictures on the day.  I remember the parade was at Buller Bcks, not Oxford and certainly not York.  It was accompanied by a display of current army vehicles for the interest of the German spectators.

It was 3LI who hosted the parade btw - not 1LI. 3 were the incumbents at Buller Bcks at the time along with 45Bty (I think) RA.


Last edited by Hussar100 on 20/1/2014, 14:21; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 14:19

Hussar100,

Thanks for the information.  Isn't it interesting that things which were considered not worth recording at the time could be the topic of so much speculation 30 years later?

Are the photographs which I posted earlier also a part of the same Freedom Parade?


Everyone,

Wasn't there a thread posted here several years ago complete with photographs of soldiers at a cavalry depot in Britain parading in No 2's with SMG's?  The soldiers were wearing leather gloves and marching with the SMG across their chest.  Or am I just imagining this?  (Getting old stinks.)

Cheers,
Dan.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 14:33

Dan M wrote:
Hussar100,

Thanks for the information.  Isn't it interesting that things which were considered not worth recording at the time could be the topic of so much speculation 30 years later?

Are the photographs which I posted earlier also a part of the same Freedom Parade?


Everyone,

Wasn't there a thread posted here several years ago complete with photographs of soldiers at a cavalry depot in Britain parading in No 2's with SMG's?  The soldiers were wearing leather gloves and marching with the SMG across their chest.  Or am I just imagining this?  (Getting old stinks.)

Cheers,
Dan.

I believe they are. I also think I have all of mine quite convenient if you want them scanned and posted. The negs are in the same shoebox (used to contain George boots - lol) so if you're really keen and don't mind waiting a few days I can dig them out and scan them - I do have a negative scanner for just that purpose?
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 16:39

Hussar100,

You know that no good deed goes unpunished.  If you start to post your pics here, you'll find yourself being pestered by persons such as myself demanding more and more.

I, for one, would encourage you (and all you others out there) to scan and post all of the pics you may have of your military career.  Like I'm fond of saying to everyone and sundry on all of the fora to which I post: You are the history we are looking for.  (Pardon the bad English.)  All of which comes down to the short answer 'Yes' please post your pics.

Kudos for having a negative scanner.  I've always wanted one.  I think that I'll put that on my 'to-buy' list for the missus.


JPW,

Incoming received and understood.  Thank you.

Cheers to you both,
Dan.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 18:41

Dan M wrote:
Quote :
All joking aside.
In this excellent picture, the QRIH and the Cavalry behind them, appear to be carrying SLR at the High Port for some reason, whereas the Gunners are carrying SLR with bayonet fixed at The Shoulder.
Apart from that, when I was in the Cavalry our personal weapon was the Sterling SMG. I can only think that these blokes carrying rifles would be something to do with the Northern Ireland situation at that time.

If you look closely at the original photograph on the wikipedia site, at maximum resolution, you will find that the QRIH troopers are carrying SMG's with the bayonet fixed.  It fooled me when I first looked at it.

Why they're at Port Arms I can't say.  Maybe they're planning on 'doubling' through the town?

Cheers,
Dan.

The Small Metal Guns (SMGs) are being carried at 'The Shoulder', and are kept in that position when marching in slow and quick time. When they step off in 'Quick Time' the arm is cut away and swung but in 'Slow Time' it is cut away from the handguard and remains at the side of the body. In the other pics they are obviously stood 'At Ease' with the SMG. When they are brought to 'Attention' the SMG is brought into the 'Order' position, where it held by the pistol grip with the right hand pointing down to the ground. From that position it could be brought to the 'Shoulder' and from the 'Shoulder' the 'Present Arms' was carried out. HTH. Other moves were 'Change Arms' (done on the march and at the halt) and 'Ground Arms'. BTW the two parade markers are RA! Very Happy

Here's a link to an RAC Trg Regt Pass Off at Catterick in 87, fast fwd to 1hr 24 and you'll see some SMG drill:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk1pGsMR3b8

Apologies to Hussar100 as I've just had another read of this thread and saw your post where you explain the 'Shoulder' as well! Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   20/1/2014, 20:28

Hussar 100

Thank you for your prompt, fascinating and authorative response to my pm.

There can be no arguments over the location and participants.

PS Would never have recognised the location as the Loddenheide complex, massive changes from my time a decade earlier.
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PostSubject: Re: Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68   

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Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68
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