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 the history of the crossed keys

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oldtimer
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Number of posts : 99
Age : 70
Localisation : Manchester
Cap Badge : RCT
Places Served : Yeovil, Bunde, Lubbecke,camp du larzac, norway,rct winter training centre hinterstien, Aldershot,
Registration date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: the history of the crossed keys   13/11/2009, 10:38

THE HISTORY OF THE CROSSED KEYS.

For over half a century, the Divisional sign of the Second Division has been the Crossed Keys. It was a familiar sign around India later on in the war, and the flag with the Crossed Keys flies today in the little Westphalian town (Lubbecke) whose municipal coat of arms is, by the long arm of coincidence, the Crossed Keys.

In the early days of World War II the War Office ordered that each formation should choose for itself some device which would be easily recognised and simple to reproduce. General Lloyd, then commanding the Second Division in France, chose the emblem of the Crossed Keys. His previous command, a Guards Brigade, had as its sign a single key, and he decided to add a second key for his new command. So it was that the Crossed Keys came to the French town of Orchies in 1940.

The choice was not inappropriate, for in earlier days it was the custom for the Archbishop of Canterbury, whenever necessary, to raise an Army in the South of England, and for the Archbishop of Canterbury to raise a Second Army in the North. This Second Army carried on its banners and shields the emblem of the Crossed Keys, taken from the arms of the Archbishop of York.

When the Division was sent to Yorkshire after Dunkirk, it was re-establishing a distant historical connection. This was subsequently reinforced when the Division moved from the British Army of the Rhine (BAOR) to York in 1982 taking over the responsibility of the Army’s Eastern District in 1995. The 1998 Strategic Defence Review led to a reorganisation of Land Command and the move in April 2000 of Headquarters 2nd Division to Edinburgh.


there is some thought that the crossed keys have a connection with st peter and the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
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ciphers
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Number of posts : 962
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: the history of the crossed keys   13/11/2009, 17:14

A slightly different version of 2 Inf Div ..

Len (Ciphers)


2nd Infantry Division (United Kingdom)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2nd Division


The British 2nd Division is a regular division of the British army, with a long history. It dates its existence as a permanently embodied formation from 1809, when it was established by Lieutenant General Sir Arthur Wellesley (later to become the Duke of Wellington) for service in the Peninsular War. (Prior to this, it was common for formations with the same number to be temporarily established for a single campaign and disbanded immediately afterwards; divisions remained a permanent part of the British Army's structure only after the Napoleonic Wars).
The division has long been associated with the north of England. The divisional insignia, the Crossed Keys of Saint Peter, were originally part of the coat of arms of the Diocese of York, and were adopted before or during the First World War.
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oldtimer
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Number of posts : 99
Age : 70
Localisation : Manchester
Cap Badge : RCT
Places Served : Yeovil, Bunde, Lubbecke,camp du larzac, norway,rct winter training centre hinterstien, Aldershot,
Registration date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: Re: the history of the crossed keys   13/11/2009, 17:54

took my information len from the british armys own website,both are correct . i just concentrated on the history of the crossed keys not the history of 2 div.link below.


http://www.army.mod.uk/structure/13936.aspx
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ciphers
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Number of posts : 962
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: the history of the crossed keys   13/11/2009, 20:42

Oh Hell, we are both wonderful people .. especially me as I was in 6 Armoured Division ...

Len (Ciphers)
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Stephen Lock
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Number of posts : 937
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Localisation : Calgary
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Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: the history of the crossed keys   14/11/2009, 06:28

Interesting history...I noticed in oldtimer's original history a slight error/typo.

I think he meant to write:

.."in earlier days it was the custom for the Archbishop of Canterbury, whenever necessary, to raise an Army in the South of England, and for the Archbishop of York to raise a Second Army in the North. This Second Army carried on its banners and shields the emblem of the Crossed Keys, taken from the arms of the Archbishop of York."

That the keys are representations of the Keys of St. Peter is quite likely, as many heraldic keys, especially those associated with Diocesan Coats of Arms and/or Bishoprics, show St. Peter's keys (Cologne and it's holding, including (at one time) Soest, which still has a single red key of St. Peter as it's device).

This was certainly the case in Germany and, I assume, in England as well and probably in France too as I come to think of it.
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Paul
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Number of posts : 817
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Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: the history of the crossed keys   14/11/2009, 10:07

Stephen Lock wrote:
.....Archbishop of York to raise a Second Army in the North. This Second Army carried on its banners and shields the emblem of the Crossed Keys, taken from the arms of the Archbishop of York.".........

If oldtimer copied it directly from the site, that is where the mistake originates.

Paul.
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oldtimer
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Number of posts : 99
Age : 70
Localisation : Manchester
Cap Badge : RCT
Places Served : Yeovil, Bunde, Lubbecke,camp du larzac, norway,rct winter training centre hinterstien, Aldershot,
Registration date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: Re: the history of the crossed keys   14/11/2009, 10:20

my spelling is not the best stephen but in this case i am not guilty as i copied and pasted direct from the army mod.uk site so any erros/typos as you put it are down to them.

i can see now you have pointed it out it should have been york not canterbury. would you like to tell them or should i, on second thoughts i will leave it to you as i would only spell something wrong.lol

my real name is paul but as paul is such a popular name oldtimer is better, as one of the forums i go on has 9 pauls it gets confusing to say the least.

did not see your reply paul. lol!
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dandc
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PostSubject: Re: the history of the crossed keys   14/11/2009, 10:30

hi oldtimer, dave of dandc infamy here,please dont let spelling get in the way of an interesting story or indeed a bit of history,my spelling leaves a lot to be desired but as long as people understand the gist of a story i am satisfied,keep up the good work i wish i had paid more time to local history while in germany,[down with nit pickers] dave.
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Stephen Lock
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Number of posts : 937
Age : 63
Localisation : Calgary
Cap Badge : Pads Brat
Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: the history of the crossed keys   14/11/2009, 19:08

oldtimer wrote:
my spelling is not the best stephen but in this case i am not guilty as i copied and pasted direct from the army mod.uk site so any erros/typos as you put it are down to them.

i can see now you have pointed it out it should have been york not canterbury. would you like to tell them or should i, on second thoughts i will leave it to you as i would only spell something wrong.lol

my real name is paul but as paul is such a popular name oldtimer is better, as one of the forums i go on has 9 pauls it gets confusing to say the least.

did not see your reply paul. lol!

hey Oldltimer Paul (does that work? :->),

Not to worry about spelling stuff...I figure as long as one can read and comprehend, that's what matters.

As for the York/Canterbury thing...hmmm....I'm sure I am not the first to have spotted the error but will take a peek at the original site and, if I've slipped into my editorialist mode, maybe I will pop off a note to them.

Ciao

Stephen
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