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 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade

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Paul
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Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   6/12/2009, 22:42

Along with all the other bits and pieces I am sent and find, there is mention of this Brigade, as well as on the main site.

What I would like to know is who was where and when. All I really know at the moment is:-

The Brigade moved into the Hannover area in 1952
In Langenhagen (Barracks?) it is mentioned that 55 Coy RCASC and a RCEME Field Workshop were stationed
Chatham Barracks Were apparently home to a Canadian Highland Bn (Black Watch?)
London/Edinburgh Barracks are believed to have been home to a Bn of Infantry and a Rifle Bn.

Help please.

Paul.
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Stephen Lock
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Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   7/12/2009, 02:56

1952 was, quite literally, a bit before my time....about a year, actually :-).

My educated guess is the Canadian Highland Bn would likely have been the Black Watch as the only other "Highland" outfit I am familiar with is the Calgary Highlanders, which are not 'regular' army but reserve.

I do know that what became the Canadian Brigade Group was in Hannover prior to being transferred to what became the Canadian Brigade Areas of Hemer, Soest, Unna, and Werl in 1953 (and at which point families started coming over as well...by Cunard ship lines in those days).

Perhaps Hardrations can be of some assistance here....which is not to suggest he is "Old"....just "older" (than me...).


Okay, I will shut up now LOL LOL
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Hardrations
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Number of posts : 1026
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Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   7/12/2009, 03:25

It's fairly well explained in the main site. I can't improve on it. My Platoon Sgt in the Gds Depot was part of the Infantry Battalion, an old comrade in 2 Sigs Sqn was formely in the Highland Battalion and I served with a two fellas who were in the Sigs Sqn there (if there was a Sig Sqn) As it says in the main site it was made up mainly of Canadian Militia Units. A lot of fellas I met who served there remember Hanover as " Hangover". Can't figure that one out.
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Stephen Lock
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PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   7/12/2009, 19:29

Somewhat like "Soest" being "Soused" and "Werl" being "Hurl" I would think LOL But, yeah, I don't have any idea what is being suggested either LOL LOL
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TonyE
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Number of posts : 112
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Localisation : Woodbridge Suffolk
Cap Badge : RASC & RCASC,later CF Logistics Branch
Places Served : Hannover, Bielefeld, Camp Borden, Camp Petawawa, CFB Kingston, Korea, Soest, Cyprus, Lahr.
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   7/12/2009, 23:45

The brigade was made up by various militai units (TA) from all parts of Canada.There was 1 Cdn Inf Bn, 1Cdn Rifle Bn,1Cdn Highland Bn,one company from each militai regiment.Plus 55 Tpt Coy RCASC,and other logistiacal type units and armour and arty,Ishall have to think about it and come up with some of the regiments.
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Paul
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Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   8/12/2009, 00:00

TonyE wrote:
The brigade was made up by various militai units (TA) from all parts of Canada.There was 1 Cdn Inf Bn, 1Cdn Rifle Bn,1Cdn Highland Bn,one company from each militai regiment.Plus 55 Tpt Coy RCASC,and other logistiacal type units and armour and arty,Ishall have to think about it and come up with some of the regiments.

Very Happy I knew that the thread would attract your attention Tony Very Happy

Your contribution to the Hannover area is was mentioned to me by Philip, just before we both left on "other duties", and it makes very good reading.

With your permission of course, I would like (when time permits) to extract your mention of Bad O and use it on the relevant page, as I have received some photographs of the area that could arouse some interest (as in the comment about the Lions on another thread)

Paul.
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recce83
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Age : 78
Localisation : Peachland British Columbia, Canada
Cap Badge : Black Watch of Canada
Places Served : 4 CIBG Soest and Werl 1957-1965, Camp Borden, Camp Gagetown
Registration date : 2009-06-04

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   8/12/2009, 17:31

The first elements of the 27 CIB disembarked from the troop ship 'Fairsea' at Rotterdam on November 21st 1951. As already mentioned, the brigade was derived from the following militia units: 79th Field Regt, RCA made up of various regiments and batteries across Canada. The 1st Cdn Infantry Bn comprised of the Hastings & Prince Edward Regt (A Coy); Les Fusiliers Mont Royal (B Coy); The Algonquin Regt (C Coy); The Carleton & York Regt (Sp Coy); The Loyal Edmonton Regt (D Coy). The 1st Cdn Highland Bn comprised of the Black Watch of Canada (A Coy); The North Nova Scotia Highlanders (Sp Coy); The 48th Highlanders of Canada (B Coy) The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada (C Coy); The Canadian Scottish Regt (Princess Mary's) (D Coy). The 1st Cdn Rifle Bn made up of The Queen's Own Rifles of Canada (Sp Coy), Victoria Rifles of Canada (A Coy); The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (B Coy); The Royal Winnipeg Rifles (C Coy); The Regina Rifles (D Coy).
Also 58 Field Squadron, RCE comprised of 3 squadrons from Newfoundland, Winnipeg and Lethbridge and 79 Field Ambulance comprising 2 units from Montreal and Toronto.
Regular force units included 55 Tpt Coy, RCASC and C Squadron, Royal Canadian Dragoons an RC Sigs squadron, and various other corps and units.

The artillery and armoured regiments went to Chatham Barracks at Langenhagen, the Sappers to Hameln while the remainder of the brigade was billited at London Barracks in Hannover.

By 1953 the Brigade had moved to the Soest/Werl/Hemer area, the reserve units merged into regular force regiments and the 27th CIB re-designated. (Quoted from "War Without Battles: Canada's NATO Brigade in Germany" by Sean Maloney, 1997).
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TonyE
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Number of posts : 112
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Localisation : Woodbridge Suffolk
Cap Badge : RASC & RCASC,later CF Logistics Branch
Places Served : Hannover, Bielefeld, Camp Borden, Camp Petawawa, CFB Kingston, Korea, Soest, Cyprus, Lahr.
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   8/12/2009, 22:21

Thank you Recce83 for filling in all the blanks,I could only remember seven of the fifteen different infantry companies.

Paul,please use any of the info that I have given you as you wish,but please correct my statement about Chatham Barracks,that came from a conversation in the wet canteen of RCASC School in1954 with an ex Highland Bn member and maybe the Carlings Black Label confused his sense of direction
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Paul
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Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   8/12/2009, 23:09

recce83 wrote:
The first elements of the 27 CIB disembarked from the troop ship 'Fairsea' at Rotterdam on November 21st 1951. ............... (Quoted from "War Without Battles: Canada's NATO Brigade in Germany" by Sean Maloney, 1997)

Recce83,

I have quoted just part of your reply, and it was done with no malice I assure you.

This is the sort of information that is invaluable to the history of both BAOR and the Canadian contribution over the years. The only problem is that I now have to try and work out where to put it all, without losing any of the quality Smile

It never ceases to amaze me where information turns up from.

But, does this mean that Langenhagen and Chatham Barracks were the same place?!?

Paul.
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recce83
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Places Served : 4 CIBG Soest and Werl 1957-1965, Camp Borden, Camp Gagetown
Registration date : 2009-06-04

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   9/12/2009, 00:54

I wondered the same thing. I did that piece in a bit of a hurry, but I did check that part of the chapter and I could find no other mention of the names of the barracks. Hopefully someone can answer the question.

Rod
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Hardrations
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
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Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   9/12/2009, 04:14

recce83 wrote:
I wondered the same thing. I did that piece in a bit of a hurry, but I did check that part of the chapter and I could find no other mention of the names of the barracks. Hopefully someone can answer the question.

Rod

I shall try to phone my old BSM. He served in Hanover as a very (very) young Sgt in the RCA. Has a memory sharp as a tack.

Hardrations
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Paul
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Number of posts : 817
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Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   9/12/2009, 08:34

This shows a sign for North Chatham Barracks. Go to the 1 second stills, 44 Seconds shows the Barracks sign, 54 and 55 seconds shows the Officers Mess sign.

Paul.

P.S. Len, Mara Lane is in this one Very Happy
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recce83
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Places Served : 4 CIBG Soest and Werl 1957-1965, Camp Borden, Camp Gagetown
Registration date : 2009-06-04

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   9/12/2009, 15:40

I spoke to my ex RSM who served with the 48th Highlanders in Hannover. He confirms the artillery and armoured units were at Langenhagen and the infantry battalions in Hannover, but he thinks Catham barracks was in Hannover, although he can't be sure. First time I've known his memory to let him down. I have another source here in Kelowna. I'll check with him when the sun comes up.
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BobG
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Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   9/12/2009, 17:26

Paul,
Langenhagen is located between the airport and the A2 autobahn. Chatham Barracks were located in Hannover just south of the the Langenhagen exit of the autobahn in an area called Vahrenheide. Langenhagen Barracks were in the same area but on the opposite side of the main road into Hannover.
Bob
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recce83
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Number of posts : 201
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Places Served : 4 CIBG Soest and Werl 1957-1965, Camp Borden, Camp Gagetown
Registration date : 2009-06-04

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   9/12/2009, 17:46

A final update...Mr Maloney has in wrong. I've checked with 2 other reliable sources who confirm Chatham Barracks in Hannover was used by the brigade. According to the information contained in "The Canadian brigade" on this web site (which appears to be DND documentation) the 27th CIB did use London Barracks. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information floating around, but I guess I found that out when I majored in history.
The artillery and armoured units used Langenhagen in order to be closer to the gunnery ranges, which seems logical, but there apprears to be argument there, too.
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Paul
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Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   9/12/2009, 18:05

BobG wrote:
Paul,
Langenhagen is located between the airport and the A2 autobahn. Chatham Barracks were located in Hannover just south of the the Langenhagen exit of the autobahn in an area called Vahrenheide. Langenhagen Barracks were in the same area but on the opposite side of the main road into Hannover.
Bob

Bob,

Just looked at the two on Google Earth. I was never in Hannover, so I don't know if they have changed in size over the years, or if the Autobahn either cut through them or used land.

Chatham seems to be quite a size, so maybe it was split in two by the Canadians. I am unsure of the outline of Langenhagen, but it looks to be smaller.

Paul.
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BobG
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Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   10/12/2009, 17:25

Paul,
Chatham was on the eastern edge of the Bundeswehr barracks you found on google earth and only separated from them by a fence, I suspect it was originally all one complex. You will not find Langenhagen Barracks on Google Earth, it was flattened in the nineties and is now an industrial area with new roads etc. It was on the western side of the main road from the autobahn opposite the large barracks you have found.
Bob
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TonyE
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Places Served : Hannover, Bielefeld, Camp Borden, Camp Petawawa, CFB Kingston, Korea, Soest, Cyprus, Lahr.
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   11/12/2009, 12:04

Here's a new bit,I just got confirmaition via RCASC Association website that 55 Tpt Coy RCASC was stationed at Waterloo Barracks Langenhagen, my old contacts with that unit only ever referred to being "at the airport" in partially bomb damaged buildings. There was still a lot of rubble and damaged buildings at that time,when I arrived in Hannover in October 1950 there wasn't a roof on any of the platforms at the Hauptbahnhof,and the streets alongside were just ruins and piles of bricks.I have never heard of Waterloo Barracks, even Chatham Barracks was always referred to as The Kriegschule.
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BobG
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Number of posts : 328
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Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   11/12/2009, 17:29

TonyE,
Your info makes sence as there used to be a small German Airforce barracks at the airport. This is long gone due to airport expansion. The German barracks adjacent to Chatham are used for officer training.
Bob
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Paul
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Number of posts : 817
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Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   2/2/2010, 19:37

Paul wrote:
This shows a sign for North Chatham Barracks. Go to the 1 second stills, 44 Seconds shows the Barracks sign, 54 and 55 seconds shows the Officers Mess sign.

Paul.

P.S. Len, Mara Lane is in this one Very Happy

I think I must have missed putting the link into the original message Embarassed

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=58937
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TonyE
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Places Served : Hannover, Bielefeld, Camp Borden, Camp Petawawa, CFB Kingston, Korea, Soest, Cyprus, Lahr.
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   2/2/2010, 23:15

Finally it's proven,the Highland Bn was at Chatham Barracks even if it was the north section,thats what I was told in 54 by an ex member who was remustering to be a cook in the RCASC.
55 Tpt Coy RCASC has come up again,in Google an officer from that unit said they were in Stonehenge Barracks,and so it goes on.
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Paul
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Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   2/2/2010, 23:18

TonyE wrote:
Finally it's proven,the Highland Bn was at Chatham Barracks even if it was the north section,thats what I was told in 54 by an ex member who was remustering to be a cook in the RCASC.
55 Tpt Coy RCASC has come up again,in Google an officer from that unit said they were in Stonehenge Barracks,and so it goes on.

Where the silent was Stonehenge Barracks!!!??? scratch lol!

Paul
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TonyE
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Number of posts : 112
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Cap Badge : RASC & RCASC,later CF Logistics Branch
Places Served : Hannover, Bielefeld, Camp Borden, Camp Petawawa, CFB Kingston, Korea, Soest, Cyprus, Lahr.
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   4/2/2010, 22:58

At the Langenhagen Airfield,one RCASC told me about Waterloo Barracks which I had never heard of,but as soon as I read about Stonehenge I remember a Sgt that I worked with mentioning them.I'll put a query on the RCASC website to get confirmation,I think there are still a couple of the oldtimers around.
Hardrats you might ask Blackie if you see him,I think he was with 55
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Hardrations
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Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   5/2/2010, 00:00

TonyE wrote:
At the Langenhagen Airfield,one RCASC told me about Waterloo Barracks which I had never heard of,but as soon as I read about Stonehenge I remember a Sgt that I worked with mentioning them.I'll put a query on the RCASC website to get confirmation,I think there are still a couple of the oldtimers around.
Hardrats you might ask Blackie if you see him,I think he was with 55

Will do.
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JPW
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Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   21/8/2011, 20:14

Thanks to Bob Ritter who has sent me an extract from the official history of the Canadian Gunners which contains a Chapter on the 27 Canadian Infantry Brigade and its successors, we should eliminate Hannover as a location for 79 Field Regiment RCA and C Squadron Royal Canadian Dragoons. The History is quite clear that both units were initially based in Hohne but were united with the Brigade when the new purpose built barracks were opened in the Soest/Werl/Hemer area in 1953.

I will rewrite the the Section off the Home Page currently entitled Canadian Infantry Brigade in due course to include the contribution made to BAOR in 1945/46 by 2 and 3 Canadian Infantry Divisions in particular
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