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 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade

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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   10/9/2011, 23:31

Ach-tung! Baor surfers,
Installment 5
An effort will be made to summarize the military and political factors involved in the formation of the 27th Cdn Inf Bde. When the concept of the 27CIB made its debut on the drawing board at the Dept of National Defense in Ottawa, it emerged under the aegis of former Prime Minister, The Rt. Honorable Louis St. Laurent(1948-1957)who had been one of the leading architects and signatories of the NATO treaty in 1949. As well, the PM was a strong advocate of the need for a Canadian commitment to the defense of Western Europe. As conscription was out of the question the solution was to raise a volunteer force from Canada's Reserve Regiments as had been done in WW 1&2. A brigade size land force of about 5800 was deemed to be within the country's economic means taking into consideration that Canada was already straining to support the 25th Bde in the Korean War. The early planning of the 27CIB for the defense of Western Europe was initially and secretly dubbed the "Panda" Bde. Later the acronym was explained as the PACIFIC and ATLANTIC Bde. without any explanation of a possible Pacific involvement. The Canadian Government was adamant that the brigade fall under the command of the BAOR where it would more easily maintain its Canadian identity rather than under American Command. As well, in any PR announcements it was to be stressed that the 27CIB was not to be viewed as an occupation force in Germany.
An attempt will also be made to explain the deployment in 1951/52 of the units within the 27CIB in Hannover and within the greater Hannover area (GHA), no easy task as there is still considerable confusion about the exact locations of some of the units. Special thanks to Peter and Steve for their help in this matter.
Brigade HQ - London Barracks, Hannover
No.27 C Pro C, Service Detention Barracks, London Barracks
Three Canadian infantry battalions listed in order of seniority:
1st Cdn Rifle Bn, Edinburgh/London Barracks, Hannover
1st Cdn Highland Bn, Chatham Barracks, GHA
1st Cdn Infantry Bn, Edinburgh/London Barracks, Hannover
C Sqn Royal Canadian Dragoons, Hohne Camp
79th Royal Canadian Field Regt. RCA, Hohne Camp
58 Independent Fd. Sqn RCE, Hamlin
No 55 Tpt Coy RCASC, Stonehenge Barracks, Langenhagen
Each of the three Inf Bns were comprised of five Canadian Infantry Reserve Regiments for a total of 15 regiments. Further information on these regiments will follow later. Canadian politics played an important role in the selection of these regiments but suffice it to say at this time that every province in Canada was represented except Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland(joined Canada in 1949). As well, the territories were not represented.
It should also be noted that each Bn had its own band with it, a Bugle band for the Rifle Bn, a Pipe band for the Highland Bn, and a Brass band for the Inf Bn. Has anyone ever marched in a parade lead by a Bugle band setting a pace of 140 followed by a Pipe or Brass band doing 130?
More to follow,
Bob

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JPW
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Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   11/9/2011, 06:31

Bob

Look forward enormously to your future contributions on 27CIB which will be very much in the spirit of our original webmaster, Philip Graham and compliment the input from our other Canadian contributors on the subsequent deployment to the Soest area.
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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   14/9/2011, 19:37

Attention BAOR surfers,
Installment No 6
In the last installment an attempt was made to identify the battalion locations of the 27CIB in 1952 within Hannover and the GHA. This installment focuses on some of the major factors in the selection of the Reserve Regiments and their deployment within the three battalions in Hannover and the GHA. Grateful acknowledgement is due recce83 for his accurate posting earlier on 8/12/2009 of all reserve regiments which were selected for 27CIB in 1951. The following listing attempts to address the demographic issues in the selection process. The Hon. Brooke Claxton, Minister of National Defense, in the St.Laurent Govt. in Ottawa laid out the philosophy that the 3 battalions of the 27CIB should be comprised of the companies representing the most noteworthy regiments of the Reserve Force in Canada. In an address to the House of Commons he stated,"Companies will be grouped to form battalions of the active force but will retain their own identity and officers and men will continue to wear the insignia of the parent reserve force regiments." It was a bold and innovative plan and not without its critics, particularly the Canadian Infantry Association, the regimental associations, as well as the political activists from various parts of the country. The following list of the regiments attempts to address the regional, and political implications in the selection process. Only the home stations of the regiments as well as their geographic locations in Canada are listed. As well, regimental precedence has not been factored into the following list:
Ist Cdn Rifle Bn
A Coy-Victoria Rifles of Canada, Montreal, Que
B Coy-Royal Hamilton Light Infantry Regiment, GHA, Ont; know as the Riley's
C Coy-Royal Winnipeg Rifles, Winnipeg, Man
D Coy-Regina Rifle Regiment, Regina, Sask; known as the Reginas
Sp Coy- Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, Toronto & GTA, Ont; known as the Queen's Own
1st Cdn Highland Bn
A Coy-Royal Highland Regiment of Canada, Montreal, Que; known as the Black Watch
B Coy-48th Highlanders of Canada, Toronto & GTA Ont
C Coy-Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, Vancouver,BC; known as the Seaforths
D Coy-Canadian Scottish Regiment, (Princess Mary's), Victoria, BC
Sp Coy-The Nova Scotia Highlanders, North NS & Cape Breton
1st Cdn Inf Bn
A Coy-The Hastings & Prince Edward Regiment, Belleville & Eastern Ont; known as the hasty P's
B Coy-Les Fusiliers Mont Royal, Montreal, Que
C Coy-The Algonquin Regiment, Northern Ont; known as the Algoons
D Coy-The Loyal Edmonton Regiment, Alta; known as the Loyal eddies
Sp Coy-The Carleton & York Regiment, NB
My apologies for any errors of commission or omission
Bob, RHLI, 1952
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steve
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Number of posts : 764
Age : 68
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   15/9/2011, 09:07

Bob

Thought I would add notes straight out of "The History of the Corps of Royal Engineers" Volume X 1948 - 1960 with two of my own notes

ROYAL CANADIAN ENGINEERS

In the autumn of 1951 a Canadian brigade group also arrived in Germany to strengthen the NATO forces, under operational control of 1 (BR) Corps*. It contained 58 Independent Field Squadron RCE which was accommodated at Hameln with 26 Field Engineer Regiment*. Later the Canadian squadron moved to the Canadian Brigade Group area and was stationed in Werl.

The Royal Canadian Engineers worked in such close cooperation with the Corps in Germany that a short account of them must be given here. From the end of hostilities until it was withdrawn in June 1946 a Canadian Army Occupation Force remained in Germany. December 1951, as part of Canada’s commitment to NATO, a Canadian
brigade group returned and was placed under command of BAOR. 58 Independent Field Squadron RCE was sent to Hameln and was relieved in 1953 by 2 Field Squadron RCE which later moved into newly constructed accommodation in Werl and was replaced by 1 Field Squadron RCE in 1955, who in their turn was replaced by 4 Field Squadron RCE in October 1957. In the early days of Canadian participation in Northern Army Group, works services were carried out by the RE, but when the Canadian Brigade Group occupied their permanent area, a Canadian works section assumed control and 31 Canadian Works Section was established in Soest in May 1952 under the CRE Paderborn. In 1957 work on the Canadian camp was reduced to maintenance only, the works section “was reduced to nil strength” and maintenance personnel were absorbed into 2 Canadian Independent Brigade Group.

* by 1958 4 Field Squadron RCE was command 2 Division

*Gordon Barracks

Regards
Steve
study
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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   16/9/2011, 18:02

Steve,
Thank you for your summation of the history of the 58th Independent Field Squadron RCE under command of the BAOR in Germany during the post war era. There is no way that I would have been able to sort out the unit's history without your help.
There is a further piece of information in regard to the 58th Independent Field Squadron RCE. When the Ministry of National Defense in Canada formed this unit there were continuing efforts to placate regional and political interests. The 58th Independent Field Squadron RCE included segments from St. John's, Nfld; Winnipeg, Man; and Lethbridge, Alta.
Bob
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Number of posts : 764
Age : 68
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   17/9/2011, 18:35

Bob
Thanks...have more from a Canadian source "The Royal Canadian Engineers in Germany 1945-1958" thanks to Dan a forum member for the tip...if you have not found the document on the internet I will send a copy to your private email address...must point out the Canadians were much better at recording their military history in those days than the British...JPW and myself have been pleased with what has turned up and your detail has certainly put things in order
Steve
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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   19/9/2011, 03:10

Steve,
Thank you for your further information on the Royal Canadian Engineers. I located the site on the internet but was not able to open it. There were too many programs that I do not have on my computer which is becoming a bit aged (4 years). The RCE's do not yield up their information easily. I would appreciate if you would send it to me via my email address.
Thanks again
Bob
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   22/9/2011, 05:03

Baor (27CIB) surfers,
Installment No.7 A New Posting
After a briefing at Bde HQ in Hannover, we were directed to our designated Infantry unit which was the HQ of 1st Cdn Rifle Bn where we had our first encounter with the Adjutant known as the Adj. He came across as being not very pleased to see us, obviously an officer (Queen's Own) who did not support the Dept. of National Defense program of sending selected subalterns from the university contingents of the COTC into his realm. Nevertheless, I was pleased to hear that I was being posted to Bravo Coy of the RHLI where I would become a Riley. My buddy from Toronto got posted to the Sp Coy of the Queen's Own.
I had already seen enough of the barracks at the Hannover Garrison, a former transit camp/officers school of the German army, to reach the conclusion that these were quality built buildings. Having worked as a brick layer's helper for a large construction company during two of my high school vacations, I had learned a lot about building construction and was able to tell that they were constructed with stone foundations with either cement block or concrete walls faced with coarse stucco. One of the barrack blocks had sustained wartime damage from an aerial bomb which had collapsed a large portion of the exterior facade revealing concrete walls reinforced with rebar. These barracks would not yield easily to one of our tornadoes in the notorious tornado alley of southwestern Ontario.
At RHLI Coy HQ I met the Coy 2IC, who I will identify only as Capt Vic for reasons which will be explained later; he seemed genuinely pleased to welcome me into the unit as he said that he would be filling a vacancy in No 2 platoon which was temporarily being commanded by the platoon Sgt. I was directed to my quarters in Edinburgh Barracks and advised that I had a day to get settled in before taking over command. I was assigned a single room which was well furnished, a single bed, night table, two comfortable chairs, and a large free standing wardrobe in a room having 9 foot ceilings. There were even print draw drapes on a decent size window which admitted lots of light. From what I had seen so far inside and out, it was clear that the previous wartime occupants had a pampered lifestyle here not at all like the Spartan quarters at the bases back in Canada. Next installment, Settling in to regimental life and the dubious commodity exchange.
Bob
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   26/9/2011, 23:36

BAOR(27CIB) surfers,
Subject: "C" Sqn RCD(Royal Canadian Dragoons)
Information has recently been found via inter library loan on the addition of Armoured support for the 27CIB in the GHA. The Dept of National Defense in Ottawa raised "C" Sqn RCD from Canada's reserve regiments in keeping with its mission to select units from the provinces and cities across Canada.
The account of what follows is taken primarily from the book,"Dragoon, The Centennial History of the Royal Canadian Dragoons 1883-1983" by Brereton Greenhous. Copies of the book may be ordered from: The Guild of the Royal Canadian Dragoons, CFTO 5000, Belleville, ON, K0H 3R0, CAN.
Greenhous begins by defining a dragoon "as a species of cavalry soldier who fought mostly on horseback but occasionally on foot". What follows is for the most part directly from his book,"The whole brigade was thrown together in a hurried ramshackle way which would inevitably be reflected in the performance overseas. Its armoured squadron was raised by tasking each of five reserve regiments: le Regiment de Hull, The Three Rivers Regiment, The 8th Hussars, The Prince Edward Island Regiment and The Halifax Rifles ( also an armoured regiment, despite the light infantry connotations of its name- to raise one troop each. Once they were assembled by troops, they were shipped off to Petawawa to be trained by the old hands of the RCD. The regiment probably never had a tougher job to do : there were good men in the ranks , mediocre men, and downright bad men. There were educated ones and illiterate ones, smart ones and some not so smart, some with criminal records and some who had only just escaped being caught."
The following information from another source explains more fully the history of the Halifax Rifles (RCAC), an interesting anomaly in its unique transition from infantry to armour. The regiment served between the years 1860-1965 before being placed in Supplementary Reserve Order of Battle which meant that the regiment would be reduced to nil strength. But the regiment was miraculously resuscitated and reactivated on 10 May 2009 as a reserve force unit, in a role of armoured reconnaissance. It is the only regiment in the Canadian Army to have ever been reactivated from Supplementary Reserve Order of Battle.
Another interesting aside was the addition of the Prince Edward Island Regiment RCAC which fulfilled The Honourable Brooke Claxton's mission to have every province in Canada represented as part of the 27CIB. The regiment had participated in the Boer War, and two world wars.
"C Sqn sailed from Halifax on 13 Dec 1951 and was located at Hohne camp 30 miles north of Hannover where in pre war days Heinz Guderian had experimented with panzer formations and tactics."
Initially the Dragoons were to be supplied with the new Sherman "Patton" tanks but owing to supply and maintenance difficulties, the Canadian Government changed its mind, the order was cancelled, and a new order was placed for 247 Mark 3 Centurion tanks with delivery starting in Mar 1952. The British Centurion tank would remain in use by the Canadian army until 1978.
Coming soon, Installment No.8, "Living the Life of Riley"
Bob

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JPW
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Number of posts : 1034
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Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   27/9/2011, 11:56

Bob

Thank you for your latest contribution, most interesting as ever.

You have provided the definitive answer on the initial deployment of the RCD Squadron to BAOR, Steve and I will have to delete all references to Langenhagen from our personal data bases.

Intrigued by the contributing Militia units to the Squadron, if my geography is correct all were from the Atlantic provinces with two Francophone Troops. Presumably the other Provinces, including Ontario, were providing reinforcements to the Canadian Armoured Regiment (Lord Strathcona's Horse?) serving in Korea
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   27/9/2011, 23:01

Peter,
In regard to your post about the reserve regiments comprising The RCD Sqn of the 27CIB, it's too bad that I did not explain their geographic locations beyond what Greenhouse wrote in his Book "Dragoon" about the reserve regt's within the RCD sqn. This is what you are looking for:
le Regiment de Hull,RCAC; the city of Hull which is located in Quebec is immediately across the Ottawa River from Ottawa, On.. The two cities are now referred to here as Ottawa_Hull part of the National Capital Commission. The French regard the Capital of Canada as Ottawa-Hull(no comment).
The Three Rivers Regiment RCAC or le regiment Trois Riviers RCAC. Trois Rivieres is a town situated 1/2 way between Montreal & Quebec City. The name of the Regt. is now 12e regiment blinde( the e following the 2 is raised and the word blinde (with an acute accent over the e means armoured in English. There are two components to the regt, a regular force Sgn based at CFB Valcartier about 25km N of Quebec City and a militia Sqn in Trois Rivieres.
8th Hussars (Princess Louise's)RCAC Princess Louise was a daughter of Queen Victoria (House of Windsor) and Prince Albert (House of Saxe-Coburg). The Regt known as the Crazy "8"s is located at Sussex and Sackville NS and Moncton, NB.
Only the PEI Regiment and the Halifax Rifles are from the Atlantic Provinces.
I am not able to tell you at this time what the composition was of the 25th Bde in Korea.
Sorry about the confusion.
Bob
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   28/9/2011, 04:45

Does anyone recognize this site? Keep surfing for further information on the uhr at kropcke Cafe in Hannover ca 1952 for exciting information on mission Fraulein Search.
Bob
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   28/9/2011, 05:29

Peter
After reading my last message to you sent at 22:01 yesterday, I noticed a couple of errors as follows: my apologies to the citizens of Sussex,NB for locating them in NS.
There were three reserve regiments from the Atlantic provinces: The 8th Hussars, The PEI Regt. and The Halifax Rifles. Sorry about that.
Bob
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   28/9/2011, 11:18

BAOR(27CIB) surfers,
Attention the picture of Hannover taken ca1952 and sent on 27 Sep 11 at 23:45 EST
Reference the uhr in front of the Kropcke Cafe at Kropcke Platz" Go right twice with fingers on the hand extended (thumb to little finger). Identify the target, the prominent building with the central cupola with two smaller spires on each side by its correctly spelled German name along with the name in English. Easily done on my wide screen monitor but may be more difficult for others.
Bob
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   28/9/2011, 21:59


Attention BAOR(27CIB) surfers
The following shoulder flashes were used throughout all of the units serving in the 27CIB
Key R to L
1st Cdn Infantry Bn
1st Cdn Rifle Bn
1st Cdn Highland Bn
All other supporting units

Bob
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   1/10/2011, 23:05

Baor(27CIB)surfers
Installment No. 8 "Living the Life of Riley"
One interpretation of this frivolous quote has it that it's a life of contentment where one lives off the avails of someone else's money and hard work. It did not take long to have this definition shot down. It started with my stop at Quartermaster Stores to draw my kit along with the other newly arrived subalterns. Quartermaster stores would have been better named as Neighborhood Services. It was very clear that the Canadian Army was quickly running out of their wartime stockpile of clothing and accouterments. There was no summer clothing. Standard garrison duty dress consisted of boots, puttees, battledress trousers, web belts, shirts with sleeves rolled, and with the uniform capped off with the rifle green berets and RHLI bugle cap badges. Webbing was supposed to be rifle regt black but there was not enough to go around; the rifle Bn band got the black webbing and the rest of the Bn got the khaki. Dress for Bn parades was full battle dress order with working dress for the riflemen consisting of coveralls of various hues. As well, we drew the traditional British round steel helmets, binoculars with case, map cases, water bottles felt covered, and holsters minus the side arms. The Highland Bn on the other hand was obviously to be the showpiece on the parade square of the Hannover garrison. The following Press Release PN 154-51 on p.8 of Report No.51 of the Historical Section (G.S.) of Army Headquarters stated" The men of the Highland Battalion have also been issued with pouches or sporrans according to unit custom , hose tops and coloured garter flashes , Highland style doublets of tropical cloth for summer wear, and distinctive headdress". Activism is not a recent phenomenon. But surprise, surprise, all subalterns were issued officer sticks, swagger sticks, canes, whatever- slender black sticks about 24" in length with silver fittings on the ends. We were all surprised as we had thought that this accouterment had long ago passed into oblivion as an anachronistic symbol of authority. Far from it; we learned from Daily Part 1 Orders that all subalterns were to report for stick drill at 1900hrs on the parade square. At the appointed time the RSM arrived to put us through stick drill to the obvious delight of about 60 or more riflemen in full battle order for punishment drill under the command of a duty corporal.
Another surprise was in store for us when we reported to the bar steward in the mess to register for the chit system when ordering drinks. We were told that we were eligible for subsidized monthly rations of cigarettes and Canadian rye whiskey. I wasn't interested in either as I was a non smoker and didn't like whiskey of any kind. For the reader's information I was not a teetotaler, just an average Canadian with a well developed taste for beer acquired early during my mid teens doing gravel running with the guys. The steward beckoned me aside and said that it would be to my financial advantage to sign on for what he referred to as the commodities, explaining further with a sly wink that I could sell the commodities or exchange them for services. And so I naively signed on to the Commodity Exchange where the rule seemed to be, "don't ask, don't tell" and where you initiated an exchange with a wink similar to the secret handshake in the Masonic Order. In retrospect, I don't think there was anything subversive about the Exchange other than one was not to profit from it or use the ration for indecent services. For the information of the reader the use of, don't ask, don't tell, has no relation to President Clinton's order about gays in the military. More about the Commodity Exchange to follow.
Next installment- taking over command of No. 2 Pl.
Bob
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Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   2/10/2011, 18:45

Bob

Thank you for your latest installment of your Hannover memories, I await with interest you and your contemporaries extra mural activities (ie night on the town). Other contributors to this site will undoubtedly compare and contrast with their own (later and doubtlessly more expensive) experiences

Going back to your earlier comment regarding Bands the best example I know is Killaloe, the Regimental March of the Royal Irish Regiment which features all the instrument you quote but played at a conventional 130 to the minute

Our Scottish contributors may be able to confirm but I believe a composite 52 Brigade solved the problem last year at an Afghanistan Home Coming Parade through Edinburgh last year by starting the Scottish contingent with Pipe Bands first . The local 3 Rifles paused and then set off at Light Infantry pace. The two contingents united past the Saluting Base and then took separate routes home.
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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   3/10/2011, 03:52

Baor(27CIB)surfers,
Installment No.9 A Nostalgic Walk Down Memory Lane with Fraulein Ilsa in Hannover 1952
Submitted in response to a special request from JPW
To put yourself into the proper romantic mood, first google the internet for a free Utube version of Bobby Helm's signature song,"Fraulein". The song was written in 1957 by Lawton Williams and was on the Country & Western charts for a year. For those who have forgotten, the following are the lines from the first verse:

"Far across the deep blue waters lives an old German's daughter
By the banks of the old river Rhine
Where I loved her and left her but I can't forget her
I miss my pretty fraulein"

For those who have never walked by the river Rhine with their liebchen, substitute the beautiful Maschsee (made lake) in Hannover and you will achieve the same desired effect.

Tribute to Fraulein Ilsa

There once was a pretty fraulein von Hannover
Who was prone to the odd hangover
But for Germany dear
She'd throw up in her beer
But was always gung ho for a rollover

And the last verse:
Fraulein, fraulein, walk down by the river
Pretend that your hand's holdin mine
By the same stars above you I swear that I love you
You are my pretty fraulein

Have a good day humming the tune to fraulein.
As an officer and gentleman I have nothing further to say about my former liebchen, Ilsa
Bob
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BobG
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Number of posts : 328
Age : 78
Localisation : Northumberland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   3/10/2011, 16:26

Bob,
Your memories of 1952 make enjoyable reading. My wife and I enjoyed many Sunday afternoon walks along the Maschsee often followed by cafe und kuchen in Cafe Kropcke during our time in Hannover, 1988-91. look forward to more of your memories
BobG
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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   4/10/2011, 17:01

Hello BobG,
Thank you very much for your kind response to my last post as well as for your pleasant references to Kropcke Cafe at the Platz and the beautiful Maschsee in Hannover which were also very memorable places for me in Hannover in 1952. There were very few Brits based at the Hannover garrison during my time frame who are able to respond to any of my memories there. During your service there from 1988-91 were there many changes made to the Cafe and Kropcke Platz comparing the site to my picture taken in 1952 and posted by me in this forum on 28/9/2011 at 03:45? I will have much more to say about these sites as well as others in some of my future posts and I look forward to your remembrances.
With friendly regards,
Bob
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BobG
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Number of posts : 328
Age : 78
Localisation : Northumberland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg, Verden, Liebenau, Hohne, Hamm, Duisburg, Minden, Hannover, Fallingbostal, Kuwait, UK, HK, USA/Can.
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   4/10/2011, 20:26

Bob

Whilst the area in your photo is in many ways the same, the main changes are that trams no longer run in this area as it served by the U Bahn (underground rail system). The two streets are essentialy the unchanged, as is Cafe Kropcke and the opera house in the background. All the area to the left of the trams is pedestrianised and traffic free, this is also where the large department stores are located. The street to the right where the tram is headed leads to the cathedral and the Alt Stadt and the location of some very good watering holes. Despite the many changes over the years I am sure that there is much that you would recognise.

BobG
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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   5/10/2011, 17:26

Baor(27CIB) surfers,
Installment No 10 Taking over Command
As I prepared myself to take over command of No 2 Platoon, Bravo Coy,1st Cdn Rifle Bn, I had a fleeting moment of uncertainty about my untested ability to command. However, knowing that I had been trained by the best NCO's to be found anywhere in the Canadian Army it quickly blew away any lingering reservations which I had and I was willing to put that knowledge and training up against anything that could be thrown at me. On the evening before I made a point of meeting with Sgt Cox who would be relinquishing command but who would be remaining as my platoon Sgt. Platoon strength was about 28 and not the 34 which I had expected and I say "about" because he advised me that there might be 1 or 2 absences of riflemen at the Special Treatment Centre where they are being treated for various infections of VD. More about that to follow in subsequent posts. He also advised me that one of the riflemen had volunteered to be my batman and that he was endorsing the man. There would be a small monthly fee for maintenance along with a bonus of cigarettes which could come out of my commodity exchange. While I was familiar with what I viewed as a long gone archaic practice, I was surprised by the offer and for an instant I visualized the medieval Ritter (knight in English) being assisted with his armor by a batman LOL. Was this chivalry being reinvented? LOL I asked Sgt Cox to prepare a list of the riflemen and NCO's indicating those who were veterans of WW2. The next morning No 2 Pl was formed up on the parade square turned out in garrison dress, boots, puttees, battledress trousers, web belts with bayonets, shirts with sleeves rolled, and Riley green berets along with the ubiquitous Lee-Enfield No 4 rifles. After the customary exchange of salutes, I inspected the Pl along with my Sgt. I remember clearly stopping in front of a tall rifleman and saying to him, "You're Rifleman Blackwell right?" Yes Sir! That's a very good turnout, Blackwell. Thank you, Sir! There was a faint and momentary expression of his being pleased but it quickly faded into a look of surprise and concern which I immediately interpreted as, What the hell have I done recently? LOL A "port arms for inspection" followed with a weapons check. In doing a mental evaluation after the changeover, I was pleased in the way it turned out but I only roughly graded their turnout as fair taking into account that the Pl had just returned from a Coy exercise in the field. As I left the parade square, Capt Vic who I had noticed lurking off the square approached me an said that the changeover had gone off well. And btw, I'm interested in your commodities for exchange. Jawhol, I thought.
Look for my next post on the bn infantry weapons used by the 27CIB.
Bob
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steve
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Number of posts : 764
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Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   6/10/2011, 17:57

Bob

Thanks for your very interesting posts...the only connection I have with the Canadian Military is back in 1967 as a young signalman was tasked to drive the G2 of HQ 1 Div and turned up with his short wheel base landrover (71EL90) and trailer at his quarter in Verden-Aller turns out to be a Canadian Major…what is that...he pointed at the caravan built into the half ton trailer…mentioned Majors and above get a caravan to sleep while on exercise…he refused it with the comment...I’ll sleep in the woods with everybody else…so took the trailer back to the troop garages…sorry cannot remember his name…nice bloke though

Best regards and keep up the stories
Steve
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TonyE
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Number of posts : 112
Age : 86
Localisation : Woodbridge Suffolk
Cap Badge : RASC & RCASC,later CF Logistics Branch
Places Served : Hannover, Bielefeld, Camp Borden, Camp Petawawa, CFB Kingston, Korea, Soest, Cyprus, Lahr.
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   8/10/2011, 17:10

Hello Ritter,you are bringing back old memories,I had left Hannover before you arrived,but did meet some of the left overs of 27 Bde at Camp Borden during my basic training at RCASC(S) early 1954,they were remustering as clerks and cooks.In 55 Iwas driving to Gagetown and had a Medic Cpl as pasenger,he had been attached to the Regina Rifles and had tales of their antics,many being as you now say first nation and being prone to drink.Were they really that wild? He called them The Regina Johns.
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ritter
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Number of posts : 265
Age : 88
Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada
Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery
Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M)
Registration date : 2011-07-09

PostSubject: Re: 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade   9/10/2011, 17:19



Baor(27CIB)Surfers,
These are the infantry weapons which were issued to 27CIB during the Bde's deployment at the Hannover garrison during the period 1951-53. Further information about the issuing of these weapons and their use will follow in Installment No 11. Information on the Artillery and Armour support weapons will also be explained in subsequent posts.
Bob
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