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 Crossing the border

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Teabag
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 960
Age : 67
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

PostSubject: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 10:21

I was quite new in Germany with a brother just down the road from Wildenrath at Birgelen. We came back to the UK on leave and I travelled all the way on my ID card. After a traumatic journey back due to being held at Rotterdam for 12 hours because of a driving ban on Sundays (bloody arabs and israelis again), we arrived at the border. On showing our "papers" on the German side, I was informed that I should have had a border pass. News to me but I was a sprog. Outcome was I was fined 5 DM but got my own back as I only had 100 DM note and he had to scramble for change in the middle of the night.

A harrier crashed in Holland and we were crashed (no pun) out to provide VHF comms until the radio delay could get there. Officers like phones don't you know! On arriving at the border, our Dutch friends wouldn't let us through saying it is classed as an invasion. Two landrovers and a four tonner is memory serves. Some invasion! We eventually got through after some diplomatic phone calls. Interesting!

Just out of curiousity, what happens to dead Mod 90's? Are they destroyed or is mine languishing in some record office along with my records etc?
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 13:19

I can't recall ever having a problem on the Dutch/German border, just showed my ID and that was it.

I still have my MOD Form 90, it's stamped "RESERVE" no one has ever asked for it back.

And they are not getting it anyway.
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oldtimer
WOII
WOII
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Number of posts : 99
Age : 69
Localisation : Manchester
Cap Badge : RCT
Places Served : Yeovil, Bunde, Lubbecke,camp du larzac, norway,rct winter training centre hinterstien, Aldershot,
Registration date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 15:57

when i joined the army i had never been abroad before and did not have a passport so when i got my first posting i expected to have to get a passport so was surprised to be told no you just travel on your id card,never had any problems crossing any borders except by military police who wanted to see my leave pass.

now heres a question i can remember arriving in germany at gutersloh but for the life of me i can not remember how i flew my mate says he dropped me of at manchester airport and i flew on a civilian aircraft could this be right?


paul.
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 16:21

Well we flew air trooping with Caladonian Air once I recall, and another civvy company had the contract from Gutersloh to Luton, Was it Britannia?
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Rocky
WOII
WOII


Number of posts : 91
Registration date : 2009-11-23

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 17:01

I seem to recall Monarch having something to do with trooping flights. Britannia were definitely one of the companies involved. Troopers used to fly into Guetersloh from Teesside as well.

I never had a passport for the first 10 years of my service as the old MOD F 90 and the NATO travel order were all that were needed for travelling round the NATO countries in Europe. You needed a passport to get to France though. Two of us found that out when we did a bunk to join the FFL. We couldn't get into France, so our 'desert' ambitions sort of fell flat on their arses at the border. We had taken a weeks local leave so we had bags of time to get back without being classed as AWOL. We both agreed to keep quiet about it as the 'Beau Geste' style comments would have continued on for years.
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oldtimer
WOII
WOII
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Number of posts : 99
Age : 69
Localisation : Manchester
Cap Badge : RCT
Places Served : Yeovil, Bunde, Lubbecke,camp du larzac, norway,rct winter training centre hinterstien, Aldershot,
Registration date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 17:25

jim wrote:
Well we flew air trooping with Caladonian Air once I recall, and another civvy company had the contract from Gutersloh to Luton, Was it Britannia?

thanks jim,as soon as i saw caladonian it all came flooding back its funny how you forget somethings.

paul
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 18:42

In these days of international terrorism, an example of how porous borders used to be.
In what must've been '61 (says he squatting on his commode!) four of us cooked up the idea of putting in for leave in Amsterdam and going to UK instead.
One bloke actually had a car, he came from Crewe, my mate & I wanted N. Wales and the fourth was a Scouser. The plan was to split up at Crewe & meet up there for the return trip.
In uniform and armed with our passes we drove from Nienburg and got to Ostende to find the ferry had gone so drove down to Dunkirk instead.
At no point were we challenged!
We got our leave & duly met up, as arranged for the return.
Everything went like clockwork & no-one in our unit would've been any the wiser except that, you guessed it, the Scouser didn't turn up.
The shit hit the fan.
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Teabag
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 960
Age : 67
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 20:40

Tell the truth Brum, you did him in and ate him for his duty frees, didn't you?

Did he ever turn up and become the "one live body" my brother once had to escort and deliver to the glass house? "Lose him and you take his place!"

I flew in to Wildenrath, Gutersloh and Dusseldorf all with Britannia from Luton.
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PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   15/6/2010, 23:14

Quote :
putting in for leave in Amsterdam and going to UK instead.

Did that twice.Easter 62 and 63.with nothing more than an ID card

64 did Amsterdam,and saw what i missed in 62 & 63 Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 03:51

Decided to go unscheduled one weekend to Amsterdam. When I got to the border ,along with 5/6 others from the unit ,the first Dutch Custom Officer waved me through as I flashed my passport. The second Officer , stopped me ,as unlike the others my passport, was not British and slightly bluer in colour. It required a visa to enter Holland. I had a back up plan ,and after 30 minutes getting nowhere, I pulled out may ID Card and Leave Pass and was waved through immediately. ''Why didn't you show me this in the first place?" he asked.
(cause the Leave Pass was not strictly legit)
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 09:12

Yes that's right, Monarch were another.

"We both agreed to keep quiet about it as the 'Beau Geste' style comments would have continued on for years."

LOL, I bet mate. I can see the barracking now. Smile

We did a weekend adventure training in Lunerberger Heide, but skipped to Hamburg instead. Smile
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brian beckett
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 47
Age : 78
Cap Badge : rasc
Places Served : Tower of London(initially in Royal Fusiliers) Aldershot, Sennelager & RAF Bruggen
Registration date : 2009-02-04

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 12:04

When serving my National Service 1958/59 in Germany our ID cards worked wonders. Children fares on Dutch & Belgian, and maybe German, railways with discounts to a number of events including the 1958 Brussles World Fair. In this country we got absolutely sod all apart from 10% off British Railways.

After demob I joined the RAFVR a couple of years later and the unit had it's annual camp at RAF Geilenkirchen. We flew on
British United Airways Viscounts from Gatwick to Wildenrath. The MOD in those days insisted all seats be reversed so we flew facing the tail.
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 13:10

All the RAF Air trooping flights I flew on had rear facing seats Brian.
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Mike_2817
LE Maj
LE Maj
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Number of posts : 643
Localisation : North Yorkshire
Cap Badge : RAOC
Registration date : 2009-08-27

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 14:03

and still do, its to do with them being on removable frames, so that they can convert aircraft to cargo.

_________________
Sua Tela Tonanti
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 14:16

erm, but how would that matter whether they are front or rear facing Mike?
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 15:03

Teabag,

We'd have gladly done him in but eat him, eat a Scouser? COME ON !!
He was seen briefly, we were told at a much later date, in the Regt but he was obviously required behind bars elsewhere!

Like your brother, on my way to a course I was collared to take someone to Colly Nick. We were quite offended when we were ordered to "double" with the prisoner.
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mjm34
Maj
Maj
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Number of posts : 262
Age : 67
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 15:14

jim wrote:
Well we flew air trooping with Caladonian Air once I recall, and another civvy company had the contract from Gutersloh to Luton, Was it Britannia?

Only "Air Trooped" once with a civvy airline, Britannia from Luton to Hannover in '69, every other time it was with Crab Air.

Mike
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mjm34
Maj
Maj
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Number of posts : 262
Age : 67
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 15:16

jim wrote:
erm, but how would that matter whether they are front or rear facing Mike?

Rear facing seats are supposed to be safer, but never caught on in civvy airliners 'cos most people want to face forward.

Another Mike
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 15:23

"Only "Air Trooped" once with a civvy airline, Britannia from Luton to Hannover in '69, every other time it was with Crab Air.
"

I flew RAF to Calgary on my way to Batus, only time I can recall flying with them Mike.

I knew about the safety thing another Mike Smile I just wondered why it made a difference for the troop/ Cargo conversion.
Any of you remember troop ships? I do, but only as a child.
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mjm34
Maj
Maj
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Number of posts : 262
Age : 67
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 15:29

jim wrote:
"Only "Air Trooped" once with a civvy airline, Britannia from Luton to Hannover in '69, every other time it was with Crab Air.
"

I flew RAF to Calgary on my way to Batus, only time I can recall flying with them Mike.

I knew about the safety thing another Mike Smile I just wondered why it made a difference for the troop/ Cargo conversion.
Any of you remember troop ships? I do, but only as a child.

Don't think it makes any difference to passenger/cargo conversion.

Yep, did Sea Trooping Harwich-Hook of Holland several times, but only as a Service Brat.

Mike
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 15:30

Ditto Mike, scary trips I thought and the troop accommodation was rank.
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Teabag
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 960
Age : 67
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   16/6/2010, 19:56

mjm34 wrote:
jim wrote:
erm, but how would that matter whether they are front or rear facing Mike?

Rear facing seats are supposed to be safer, but never caught on in civvy airliners 'cos most people want to face forward.

Another Mike

Isn't it because aircraft don't back into mountains? I'll get me coat as they say!
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   17/6/2010, 09:30

LOL, now that's a thought Teabag. Smile
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Goldmohur
WOII
WOII


Number of posts : 93
Age : 76
Localisation : Doncaster
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Gutersloh, Duisburg, Bracht, Rheindahlen. Also Non BAOR, Blackdown, Corsham. Shoeburyness, Ty Croes, Aden, Bicester.
Registration date : 2007-03-10

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   17/6/2010, 16:04

I flew many times from Manchester to Dusseldorf between 1961 (when Air Trooping started) and 1964. I think the Airline was British United. You had to rendezvous somewhere along Deansgate to catch a coach to the Airport. I was a Cpl then and single and grew quite used to a Redcap mounting the coach, picking me out as the Senior and attaching me to a prisoner to be handed over at the Flughafen upon arrival. On one occasion I was ordered to forego a days leave, proceed to Blackdown and escort several, this time via Gatwick. Mercifully a LWB Landrover was laid on to convey us from the Guardroom and it backed up to the aircraft on the tarmac.

Later on, I used to drive over to Venlo, Swalmen or Roermond most weekends. I recall long lines of cars waiting. The Dutch officials would spot the BFG plates and signal you to pull out and bypass the queue to the annoyance of the Germans. They seemed to take pleasure in going through the contents of their vehicles and airily waving we Brits through without let or hindrance.

Much earlier, in 61, before I had a passport, I went for my first trip by rail to Brussels. At the crossing, uniformed officials came along and my fellow passengers rummaged in their pockets and luggage for ID documents/passports etc, looking to me, quite anxious. Each one was checked very carefully. I was last and nervously produced my single sheet NATO document. The official unfolded it, looked quickly at it, snapped to attention, saluted and went on his way. I had the feeling that my stock rose in the eyes of those in the compartment.
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Crossing the border   18/6/2010, 08:50

Quote :
I was last and nervously produced my single sheet NATO document. The official unfolded it, looked quickly at it, snapped to attention, saluted and went on his way. I had the feeling that my stock rose in the eyes of those in the compartment.

How nice, those were the days of respect. You wouldn't get that nowadays.
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