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 Medals and stuff

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mjm34
Maj
Maj
mjm34

Number of posts : 262
Age : 69
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

Medals and stuff Empty
PostSubject: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime25/6/2010, 18:09

Was just looking at some advertising that came with the Legion Magazine. Basically a firm is selling "made-up" medals, specifically in this case, a National Service Medal. Now they make no pretence that this is an official medal, they even state that it can't be worn alongside campaign or gallantry medals and the sale does raise money for the Poppy Appeal.

However it did get me thinking about Medals in general and specifically the GSM. Recently there have been individual medal issues for the different theatres of service. The Falklands, Gulf War I and Gulf War II are fair enough as they were classed as wars, but I believe that there are separate medals for service in Iraq, Afganistan etc. Back in my day if you served somewhere where someone was shooting at you, you got a GSM, or at least another bar to the GSM you already had.

It struck me that the GSM didn't differentiate between the different degrees of danger you may have been expected to experience. If you were there for 28 days you got it.

For instance, for 1 tour of NI I was there for 2 years and although part of 39 Bde HQ & Signal Sqn spent most of my time either in or travelling between SF bases in Belfast and Co Antrim in a civilianised van and wearing civvies, with a 9mm pistol for defence. OK, not a picnic, and I would rather have not been there, but I don't think it compares to some guy on a 4 month roulemont who spends every day walking backwards up and down the Falls.

OK, I had to do the odd foot patrol and my fair share of VCPs, but still preferable to the PBI on the streets every day.

Now here's the bit that grips my **** about the GSM. At 39 Bde we used to regularly get visits from staff officers from MoD. They would arrive at RAF Aldergrove, get picked up and brought to Thiepval Bks and there they would stay for 28 days, until escorted back to Aldergrove to return to Whitehall. These visits were for liaison, fact-finding etc. I wonder how much liaising and fact-finding they managed from inside the Garrison Officers Mess. The real reason they were there was to qualify for the GSM (bar N.Ireland) and for no other purpose. HQNI also used to get visits from these chinless wonders, but I doubt if they went anywhere near 3 or 8 Bde. Far too dangerous and much less comfortable.

Now this is the same medal that everybody, including Tommy Atkins living in squalor in Belfast, Derry or Armagh for 4 months at a time, and generally several times, got.

Well I've said my piece - discuss!

Mike
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

Medals and stuff Empty
PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime25/6/2010, 18:49

I get the impression that working near the Yanks might influence the amount of medals awarded.
If they'd been around when Op BANNER was on (God Forbid!), I reckon that I would've had the Combat Badge, that musket on a blue background thing and the Purple Heart!
All joking aside though, watching the Trooping I'm impressed by the amount of medals our blokes are wearing now. About bloody time too, they earn them.
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mjm34
Maj
Maj
mjm34

Number of posts : 262
Age : 69
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime25/6/2010, 18:55

brum wrote:
All joking aside though, watching the Trooping I'm impressed by the amount of medals our blokes are wearing now. About bloody time too, they earn them.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I begrudged the present day Servicemen/women their medals. That is certainly not the case. I was just saying that in our time there was just the one and every Tom, Dick and Rupert got it.

Mike
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime25/6/2010, 19:57

Fear not mate, you didn't.
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Mike_2817
LE Maj
LE Maj
Mike_2817

Number of posts : 643
Localisation : North Yorkshire
Cap Badge : RAOC
Registration date : 2009-08-27

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime25/6/2010, 20:58

You could also quilify for the 'Accumulated Campaign Service Medal' if you spent 1080 days or more in N.I. A 2 year tour counted for 730 days les leave or courses in UK. A hard medal to rack the days up for!

In my time 1970 to 1995 the main medals were

General Service Medal (N.I. clasp)
Accumulated Campaign Service Medal (ACSM)
UNFICYP Peacekeeping (Cyprus)
Long Service & Good Conduct (LS&GC) [15 years of un-detected crime]
Queens Silver Jubilee Medal (1977) [very few issued]

If you had any single one of them prior to 1977 you were lucky!

Then withinn 10 years we had two 'war' medals

Falklands War Medal [1982]
Gulf War Medal [1992]

Now you see a soldier wearing 10 medals is not unusal! and be they front line soldiers [does a front line even exsist anymore?] or support troops, well deserved, every one.








_________________
Sua Tela Tonanti
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime25/6/2010, 21:18

I had UN (Cyprus), GSM (NI) and LSGC (Rooti Gong) by 1976.
The LSGC was for 18 yrs then. You're right about the "undetected crime" though !
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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 02:52

After returning from our first tour of Belfast,one old sweat who had served in every hot spot since WW2,himself a holder of a GSM and bars,was livid on hearing that we were all awaiting our GSM medals."GSM?", he said, "more like a Girl Shagging Medal for most of you lot."
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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 06:39

The GSM or CSM which is the proper name, was quite common in the 60s.It was awarded for service in Cyprus,Aden Malaya Borneo.It was even awarded for service in Singapore.I remember one new arrival at 7 Sigs asking if everyone got it..The only other medal awarded in that period was the UNICYP medal.(i think)
We referred to the GSM as the equivalent to the Americans,"we were there medals"

I had never heard of the ACSM untill quite recently.The award of so many shows just how stretched our troops are..

Oh BTW Congratulations on your promotion Brum drunken
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 09:11

Thanks for the congrats Gordon. A well-travelled bloke like you, you'll soon be joining me !
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Teabag
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
Teabag

Number of posts : 960
Age : 69
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 09:26

brum wrote:
Thanks for the congrats Gordon. A well-travelled bloke like you, you'll soon be joining me !

Drinks all round in the mess then?

Edit to say blimey, I've been promoted too. Was doing some family history research once and found a Major Major Teabag way back. Why would you give your child two of the same Christian names and such odd ones?
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 09:50

The first one may have been his rank and the second he was just rubbing it in. I'd be more concerned about the surname "Teabag" myself !
We had a bloke once who was from Ceylon. His surname was Guneratne. Until his promotion everybody thought his name was "Atne".
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Teabag
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
Teabag

Number of posts : 960
Age : 69
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 15:24

brum wrote:
The first one may have been his rank and the second he was just rubbing it in. I'd be more concerned about the surname "Teabag" myself !
We had a bloke once who was from Ceylon. His surname was Guneratne. Until his promotion everybody thought his name was "Atne".

It's a non de plume a bit like Brum. Better than Gunner Reah.
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mjm34
Maj
Maj
mjm34

Number of posts : 262
Age : 69
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 16:35

Teabag wrote:
brum wrote:
The first one may have been his rank and the second he was just rubbing it in. I'd be more concerned about the surname "Teabag" myself !
We had a bloke once who was from Ceylon. His surname was Guneratne. Until his promotion everybody thought his name was "Atne".

It's a nom de plume a bit like Brum. Better than Gunner Reah.

"While we realise your embarrassment, I'm afraid promotion has to be earned Private Parts" lol!
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 17:20

Teabag wrote:
brum wrote:
The first one may have been his rank and the second he was just rubbing it in. I'd be more concerned about the surname "Teabag" myself !
We had a bloke once who was from Ceylon. His surname was Guneratne. Until his promotion everybody thought his name was "Atne".

It's a non de plume a bit like Brum. Better than Gunner Reah.

Gunner Reah......don't you get the VD and Scar for that ?
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Nobby
WOII
WOII
Nobby

Number of posts : 79
Age : 59
Localisation : Leicester
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Tidworth, Sennelarger, Werl, Munsterlager, Catterick, Paderborn, Ripon, Detmold, Marchwood.
Registration date : 2009-02-05

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 18:29

brum wrote:
The first one may have been his rank and the second he was just rubbing it in. I'd be more concerned about the surname "Teabag" myself !
We had a bloke once who was from Ceylon. His surname was Guneratne. Until his promotion everybody thought his name was "Atne".

As i was REME i had a friend called Martin Cumberpatch. Everyone was waiting for him to get promoted to WO2 AQMS so that we could call him 'Q' Cumberpatch.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime26/6/2010, 20:59

Now that's just NAUGHTY ! (so, did he get the promotion or what ?).
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Nobby
WOII
WOII
Nobby

Number of posts : 79
Age : 59
Localisation : Leicester
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Tidworth, Sennelarger, Werl, Munsterlager, Catterick, Paderborn, Ripon, Detmold, Marchwood.
Registration date : 2009-02-05

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime27/6/2010, 09:11

brum wrote:
Now that's just NAUGHTY ! (so, did he get the promotion or what ?).

He sure did Brum.

People used to telephone all the time asking for Q Cumberpatch.

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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime27/6/2010, 20:19

mjm34 wrote:
Was just looking at some advertising that came with the Legion Magazine. Basically a firm is selling "made-up" medals, specifically in this case, a National Service Medal. Now they make no pretence that this is an official medal, they even state that it can't be worn alongside campaign or gallantry medals and the sale does raise money for the Poppy Appeal.

However it did get me thinking about Medals in general and specifically the GSM. Recently there have been individual medal issues for the different theatres of service. The Falklands, Gulf War I and Gulf War II are fair enough as they were classed as wars, but I believe that there are separate medals for service in Iraq, Afganistan etc. Back in my day if you served somewhere where someone was shooting at you, you got a GSM, or at least another bar to the GSM you already had.

It struck me that the GSM didn't differentiate between the different degrees of danger you may have been expected to experience. If you were there for 28 days you got it.

For instance, for 1 tour of NI I was there for 2 years and although part of 39 Bde HQ & Signal Sqn spent most of my time either in or travelling between SF bases in Belfast and Co Antrim in a civilianised van and wearing civvies, with a 9mm pistol for defence. OK, not a picnic, and I would rather have not been there, but I don't think it compares to some guy on a 4 month roulemont who spends every day walking backwards up and down the Falls.

OK, I had to do the odd foot patrol and my fair share of VCPs, but still preferable to the PBI on the streets every day.

Now here's the bit that grips my **** about the GSM. At 39 Bde we used to regularly get visits from staff officers from MoD. They would arrive at RAF Aldergrove, get picked up and brought to Thiepval Bks and there they would stay for 28 days, until escorted back to Aldergrove to return to Whitehall. These visits were for liaison, fact-finding etc. I wonder how much liaising and fact-finding they managed from inside the Garrison Officers Mess. The real reason they were there was to qualify for the GSM (bar N.Ireland) and for no other purpose. HQNI also used to get visits from these chinless wonders, but I doubt if they went anywhere near 3 or 8 Bde. Far too dangerous and much less comfortable.

Now this is the same medal that everybody, including Tommy Atkins living in squalor in Belfast, Derry or Armagh for 4 months at a time, and generally several times, got.

Well I've said my piece - discuss!

Mike

I thought I was looking at the Military Cross on parade this morning, turned out to be the "General Service Cross" (silver too). The bloke had other Mickey Mouse medals on show, as did other people around.
Fair enough, they look impressive from a distance, bit sad though.
I take your point about the GSM etc. but I think such medals are given to everybody, regardless of how close to the sharp end they were because they were in the danger area. My son was a REME VM stagging it out in Cyprus during the First Gulf War, he got the medal because somebody decided the were in SCUD range.
Having done a tour on my flat feet in Andersonstown and driven around the province in civvies with a Browning stuffed down my Y fronts I think I felt more in danger doing the latter. Those two blokes who blundered into a funeral outside Roger Casement Park that time and were dragged out of their car and killed by those animals, in front of the world, were on their own. That couldn't have happened to a bloke on a foot patrol. (Weren't they R.Sigs by the way?).
Regarding staying In Theatre long enough to qualify for a medal, there was
a similar situation when we were in Cyprus. A steady stream of Nigels would turn up, get taken round various points of interest (including Helen's Bar) by my mate or yours truly then, as soon as they'd got the medal ,they were off to visit the other squadrons in Singapore and Honkers. Nice for some.
Our Padre got the GSM (NI) too. Not in a job that would attract much aggro you might think but our 2ic had to order him to stop riding around Derry on a push bike. Fast forward to the Falklands. When the fallen Paras were being buried, that bloke reading out the names was that same Padre.
I think most squaddies can read between the lines when they look at someone's medals, most of them were given for being in danger, one way or another.
I think you made some good points Mike.
brum
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
Hardrations

Number of posts : 1045
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime27/6/2010, 20:57

That was Ellens bar Brum. I'm sure.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime27/6/2010, 21:31

I stand corrected Colonel. I'd certainly pronounce it "Ellen's"
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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime27/6/2010, 22:25

Quote :
(Weren't they R.Sigs by the way?).

They were.
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
Hardrations

Number of posts : 1045
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime28/6/2010, 02:46

Found a tiny clear piece of wall in Ellen's to write my name amongst the rest. Came back two weeks later and she had painted. Ah well. As we said in RC Sigs, " If you weren't in Ellen's Bar, you weren't in Cyprus".
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
Hardrations

Number of posts : 1045
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime28/6/2010, 03:00

Getting back to medals. Interesting thing about many Canadian WW 1 medals being found in the UK and advertising in the Canadian Legionnaire for kin. Is that many of Canada's soldiers were British/Irish/Scots/Welsh lads who had immigrated to Canada prior to 1914, enlisted and stayed back in the UK on discharge. So folks should be looking in the UK.

Incidentally I have two sets of WW 1 medals I'm still researching. They were brother-in-laws one English one Irish who enlisted in Canada. Returned to Canada but having a bugger of a time tracking family. One of them I have his family history in England (lost a brother in the British army at the Somme) but no family traceable here past 1972. But when we have settled into our new digs in Oct I'll be reopening their past and dig a bit further. I dislike medals ending up in private collections. Should be in family, Regimental Museum or wall of honour in a Legion. I've helped many people have family members medals mounted and framed with appropriate picture. On the back of the frame you put an envelope that holds any history in reference to the veteran. This could be, pay book, news paper clippings, discharge papers, etc. I tell/suggest to people that if family loses interest in these to pass them onto a Regimental Museum if possible. These are ideal for display in the museum or a mobile display for schools on Nov 11 from the museum. I've had people say they will send them to the National War Museum in Ottawa . That is bad. As they only break them up and throw them in boxes. Not all vets are V.C. winners. So they don't get displayed.

Question: What has higher precedence than a V.C.?
Hint: Not a V.C. and bar.
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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime28/6/2010, 04:14

Many REME bods who were attached to Infantry units,in the heart of Belfast had to carry out not only their specialist duties,but were rostered for Foot Patrols ,Mobile Patrols etc. Three of us REME VM's were the guinea pigs for a Hearts and Mind Operation, in no less a place than the Lower Falls on a Saturday afternoon. No arms, just a radio set, a Land Rover and a tool box each, ......(.Oh! ,and lots of bog rolls)
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Teabag
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
Teabag

Number of posts : 960
Age : 69
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

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PostSubject: Re: Medals and stuff   Medals and stuff Icon_minitime28/6/2010, 09:18

What are the names you are researching hardrations? If it's not a state secret or anything?
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