Number of posts : 1 Registration date : 2012-08-27
Subject: Alvis Saracen - History 27/8/2012, 20:46
Hi All,
I am restoring an Alvis Saracen 96 BA 69 but I would like to find out as much history of the vehicle including photos and making contact with those who used it in service. I have the record card and was wondering if anyone could help!
Saracen, Mark 2, VHF, Alvis 96 BA 69
5th January 1956: Date in service. No record – in storage?
6th July 1971: 17 Base Vehicle Depot (BVD), Recklinghausen, Germany (Stock).
10th February 1972: 17th / 21st Lancers, based at Northampton Barracks, Wolfenbuttel, Germany.
8th November 1976: 16th / 5th The Queen’s Royal Lancers, based at Northampton Barracks, Wolfenbuttel, Germany.
23rd January 1976: Vehicle Depot (VD), based at Ludgershall, Wiltshire.
23rd June 1976: 34 Central Workshops, REME, based at Donnington, Shropshire.
23rd February 1977: Vehicle Depot (VD), based at Ludgershall, Wiltshire.
14th August 1978: Ordnance Depot, RAOC, based at Antwerp, Belgium.
12th February 1978: Quartermaster (QM), Ordnance Depot, RAOC, based at Antwerp, Belgium.
8th June 1992: Struck Off to William Banister, Northiam, East Sussex.
Many Thanks in advance!
JPW Let Gen
Number of posts : 1119 Age : 82 Localisation : Berkshire Cap Badge : REME Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf Registration date : 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 28/8/2012, 08:29
Mettlen
Welcome
This site loves this type of challenge (in the past we have helped atleast two civilian owners of former BAOR based vehicles trace the relevent history with some success
Have you approached Home Headquarters The Queens Royal Lancers for information (by pure coincidence the 17/21st and 16/5th amalgamated a decade plus ago)?
pete26 Capt
Number of posts : 209 Cap Badge : R.E. Places Served : Farnborough, Hohne, Ulster, Berchtesgaden,Chatham.. Registration date : 2012-04-29
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 30/8/2012, 01:47
The only time I saw Saracens was in Ulster. Never saw any in BAOR.
They were much quieter than and certainly much less draughty than Humber Pigs.
jimsigs1 Let Gen
Number of posts : 1298 Age : 89 Localisation : West of England Cap Badge : Royal Signals Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972 Registration date : 2010-02-22
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 30/8/2012, 10:45
Once saw a saracen based vehicle being used as a fire tender at Silverstone some years ago. Were there civilian versions I wonder. Jimsigs1
Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 30/8/2012, 13:00
Most Gunner regiments had Saricans in the 60 and early 70 - they were used as Battery Command Posts prior to the issue of AFV 432.
Nick642 Cpl
Number of posts : 12 Age : 76 Localisation : Scotland Cap Badge : Royal Signals Places Served : JTR Troon, Lippstadt, Herford Registration date : 2011-07-30
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 19/9/2012, 18:02
pete26 wrote:
The only time I saw Saracens was in Ulster. Never saw any in BAOR.
They were much quieter than and certainly much less draughty than Humber Pigs.
My first posting was to 22 sigs in Lippstadt circa 1965. Recce Troop was in it's 'infancy' and we had a motley assortment of vehicles including Austin Champs, Humber Pigs and Austin K9's. Gradually, we started to get decent kit and the Champs were replaced with series 2a LWB FFR Landrovers, The K9's disappeared and the Pigs were replaced with Saracens which some of us learned to drive. After the move to 7 Sigs ( 1967 I think) , the Saracens were upgraded to the Tall Command Post versions and kitted out with C42, C11 and Bid150.
I loved the Saracen. It was fun ( but hard work sometimes) to drive but it was very noisy and we woke up a lot of sleeping civvies by roaring through their sleepy village in the wee small hours and kicking down to a low gear. The resulting scream woke up everyone for miles . A driver in 22 Sigs ( I think it was Jimmy Gray) kicked down once too often and blew the muffler off. ( What a clatter).
Anyways, Recce Troop only ever had two Saracens, designated R1 ( Commanded by Cpl George Bates from Leamington Spa) and the backup was R2 Commanded by me ( L/Cpl Ian Beat). By 1968, the Saracens were replaced with FV432's which were still in service when I left in 1969..
pete26 Capt
Number of posts : 209 Cap Badge : R.E. Places Served : Farnborough, Hohne, Ulster, Berchtesgaden,Chatham.. Registration date : 2012-04-29
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 19/9/2012, 20:17
Nick642 wrote:
pete26 wrote:
The only time I saw Saracens was in Ulster. Never saw any in BAOR.
They were much quieter than and certainly much less draughty than Humber Pigs.
My first posting was to 22 sigs in Lippstadt circa 1965. Recce Troop was in it's 'infancy' and we had a motley assortment of vehicles including Austin Champs, Humber Pigs and Austin K9's. Gradually, we started to get decent kit and the Champs were replaced with series 2a LWB FFR Landrovers, The K9's disappeared and the Pigs were replaced with Saracens which some of us learned to drive. After the move to 7 Sigs ( 1967 I think) , the Saracens were upgraded to the Tall Command Post versions and kitted out with C42, C11 and Bid150.
I loved the Saracen. It was fun ( but hard work sometimes) to drive but it was very noisy and we woke up a lot of sleeping civvies by roaring through their sleepy village in the wee small hours and kicking down to a low gear. The resulting scream woke up everyone for miles . A driver in 22 Sigs ( I think it was Jimmy Gray) kicked down once too often and blew the muffler off. ( What a clatter).
Anyways, Recce Troop only ever had two Saracens, designated R1 ( Commanded by Cpl George Bates from Leamington Spa) and the backup was R2 Commanded by me ( L/Cpl Ian Beat). By 1968, the Saracens were replaced with FV432's which were still in service when I left in 1969..
Austin Champs had been replaced when I got in. Some of the 'old sweats' said they used to drag our Cents down to the washdown with them after exercises on Luneberg heath.
Now that is impressive.
brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 19/9/2012, 20:29
[quote="Nick642 , the Saracens were upgraded to the Tall Command Post versions and kitted out with C42, C11 and Bid150.
We Gunners called them Saracens but strictly speaking they were "Armoured Command Post, RA". They were fun to drive but far too complex to maintain. I never knew that other units used them too, makes sense though.
AlienFTM likes this post
brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 19/9/2012, 20:34
[quote="pete26
Austin Champs had been replaced when I got in. Some of the 'old sweats' said they used to drag our Cents down to the washdown with them after exercises on Luneberg heath.
Now that is impressive.[/quote]
I'm struggling to believe that a Champ could pull a Centurion but I did bump start our fully-laden Bedford POL wagon with one once. BLUEBELL expressed much disapproval !
brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 19/9/2012, 20:37
jimsigs1 wrote:
Once saw a saracen based vehicle being used as a fire tender at Silverstone some years ago. Were there civilian versions I wonder. Jimsigs1
I just noticed this one Jim. I wonder if what you saw was that fire tender the RAF used. Would it have been called a Salamander ?
BigJock WOI
Number of posts : 117 Localisation : €uroland Cap Badge : REME Places Served : Arborfield, Bordon, Osnabrück, Paderborn and once again Paderborn. Registration date : 2011-06-14
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 20/9/2012, 18:51
As previously stated the RA used them as command posts here is one I changed the engine on at Münsterlager in the mid '60's, belonged to 51 Kabul Bty. 24Msl Regt.
lasatalayas LCpl
Number of posts : 6 Registration date : 2012-06-12
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 9/8/2013, 09:18
My personal favourite was the Robert Radar which was a Radar FA9 mounted in/on a Saracen.
I remember a drunken Gunner pinching it one night out of the Radar Park at Larkhill and hiding it on the ranges. Took us a couple to find it as it was all cammed up.
Happy days.
Wilf Lt Col
Number of posts : 314 Cap Badge : RAOC Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse. Registration date : 2008-10-22
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 10/8/2013, 06:04
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 17/8/2013, 14:17
BigJock wrote:
As previously stated the RA used them as command posts here is one I changed the engine on at Münsterlager in the mid '60's, belonged to 51 Kabul Bty. 24Msl Regt.
mmmm, funny Shelldrake missed this one.
Anyroad up. I'm trying to remember what the name of that beer is-the label looks familiar. Could it be Herrenhausen ?
Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 21/8/2013, 18:07
brum wrote:
BigJock wrote:
As previously stated the RA used them as command posts here is one I changed the engine on at Münsterlager in the mid '60's, belonged to 51 Kabul Bty. 24Msl Regt.
mmmm, funny Shelldrake missed this one.
Anyroad up. I'm trying to remember what the name of that beer is-the label looks familiar. Could it be Herrenhausen ?
That'll be Left Sections CP?
brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 22/8/2013, 11:29
That Tac sign must've been introduced after the Great Exodus, in the mid 60s.
While I was in 24 the CP was always "H".
By the way Shelldrake, it seems to me that there should be a Gunner-related caption for your avatar.
"Bad ram" springs to mind.
kevinp55 LCpl
Number of posts : 9 Localisation : 3rd january Cap Badge : royal horse guards Places Served : windsor herford raf pergamos cyprus Registration date : 2014-03-22
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 18/4/2014, 11:04
pete26capt saracens were in baor also saladins my regiment Royal Horse Guards had them also ferrets this was in 1962-66 kevinp
caiden5678 Private
Number of posts : 1 Registration date : 2019-11-14
Subject: 96 BA 69 14/11/2019, 17:53
Hello, I was wondering if I could get into contact and get a few pictures of the Saracen please? My grandfather used to drive it while he was in the army I know I’m 7 years too late ish but we would absolutely love to know it’s in good condition, I saw some pictures of it in your shed on another website, as if anyone else it would be appreciated if you had any contact details for mettlen, many thanks.
AlienFTM SSgt/CSgt
Number of posts : 61 Age : 68 Localisation : Hampshire Cap Badge : 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars Places Served : NI, Tidworth, UNFICYP, BAOR, Worthy Down Registration date : 2007-12-07
Subject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History 27/7/2022, 17:13
brum wrote:
[quote="Nick642 , the Saracens were upgraded to the Tall Command Post versions and kitted out with C42, C11 and Bid150.
We Gunners called them Saracens but strictly speaking they were "Armoured Command Post, RA". They were fun to drive but far too complex to maintain. I never knew that other units used them too, makes sense though.
The vehicle in question must have been a Saracen Armoured Command Vehicle, used by all RAC regiments (3 in Command Troop, Regimental HQ and two in each of the squadron HQs, plus ambulances, one per squadron) until the very end of the 70s when Sultan became available.
15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars deployed to Paderborn with 3 Armd Div in October 1978. Command Troop went to Moenchengladbach to collect ACVs. They gave us ACPRAs.
We did one exercise with them before taking them back and getting a refund replacement ACVs.