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 Alvis Saracen - History

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+9
lasatalayas
BigJock
brum
Nick642
Shelldrake
jimsigs1
pete26
JPW
Mettlen
13 posters
AuthorMessage
Mettlen
Private
Private



Number of posts : 1
Registration date : 2012-08-27

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime27/8/2012, 20:46

Hi All,

I am restoring an Alvis Saracen 96 BA 69 but I would like to find out as much history of the vehicle including photos and making contact with those who used it in service. I have the record card and was wondering if anyone could help!

Saracen, Mark 2, VHF, Alvis
96 BA 69

5th January 1956: Date in service. No record – in storage?

6th July 1971: 17 Base Vehicle Depot (BVD), Recklinghausen, Germany (Stock).

10th February 1972: 17th / 21st Lancers, based at Northampton Barracks, Wolfenbuttel, Germany.

8th November 1976: 16th / 5th The Queen’s Royal Lancers, based at Northampton Barracks, Wolfenbuttel, Germany.

23rd January 1976: Vehicle Depot (VD), based at Ludgershall, Wiltshire.

23rd June 1976: 34 Central Workshops, REME, based at Donnington, Shropshire.

23rd February 1977: Vehicle Depot (VD), based at Ludgershall, Wiltshire.

14th August 1978: Ordnance Depot, RAOC, based at Antwerp, Belgium.

12th February 1978: Quartermaster (QM), Ordnance Depot, RAOC, based at Antwerp, Belgium.

8th June 1992: Struck Off to William Banister, Northiam, East Sussex.

Many Thanks in advance!

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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen



Number of posts : 1119
Age : 82
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime28/8/2012, 08:29

Mettlen

Welcome

This site loves this type of challenge (in the past we have helped atleast two civilian owners of former BAOR based vehicles trace the relevent history with some success

Have you approached Home Headquarters The Queens Royal Lancers for information (by pure coincidence the 17/21st and 16/5th amalgamated a decade plus ago)?
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pete26
Capt
Capt



Number of posts : 209
Cap Badge : R.E.
Places Served : Farnborough, Hohne, Ulster, Berchtesgaden,Chatham..
Registration date : 2012-04-29

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime30/8/2012, 01:47

The only time I saw Saracens was in Ulster. Never saw any in BAOR.

They were much quieter than and certainly much less draughty than Humber Pigs.
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jimsigs1
Let Gen
Let Gen
jimsigs1


Number of posts : 1298
Age : 89
Localisation : West of England
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime30/8/2012, 10:45

Once saw a saracen based vehicle being used as a fire tender at Silverstone some years ago. Were there civilian versions I wonder.
Jimsigs1
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
Shelldrake


Number of posts : 3048
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime30/8/2012, 13:00

Most Gunner regiments had Saricans in the 60 and early 70 - they were used as Battery Command Posts prior to the issue of AFV 432.
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Nick642
Cpl
Cpl



Number of posts : 12
Age : 76
Localisation : Scotland
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : JTR Troon, Lippstadt, Herford
Registration date : 2011-07-30

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime19/9/2012, 18:02

pete26 wrote:
The only time I saw Saracens was in Ulster. Never saw any in BAOR.

They were much quieter than and certainly much less draughty than Humber Pigs.

My first posting was to 22 sigs in Lippstadt circa 1965. Recce Troop was in it's 'infancy' and we had a motley assortment of vehicles including Austin Champs, Humber Pigs and Austin K9's. Gradually, we started to get decent kit and the Champs were replaced with series 2a LWB FFR Landrovers, The K9's disappeared and the Pigs were replaced with Saracens which some of us learned to drive.
After the move to 7 Sigs ( 1967 I think) , the Saracens were upgraded to the Tall Command Post versions and kitted out with C42, C11 and Bid150.

I loved the Saracen. It was fun ( but hard work sometimes) to drive but it was very noisy and we woke up a lot of sleeping civvies by roaring through their sleepy village in the wee small hours and kicking down to a low gear. The resulting scream woke up everyone for miles . A driver in 22 Sigs ( I think it was Jimmy Gray) kicked down once too often and blew the muffler off. ( What a clatter).

Anyways, Recce Troop only ever had two Saracens, designated R1 ( Commanded by Cpl George Bates from Leamington Spa) and the backup was R2 Commanded by me ( L/Cpl Ian Beat). By 1968, the Saracens were replaced with FV432's which were still in service when I left in 1969..
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pete26
Capt
Capt



Number of posts : 209
Cap Badge : R.E.
Places Served : Farnborough, Hohne, Ulster, Berchtesgaden,Chatham..
Registration date : 2012-04-29

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime19/9/2012, 20:17

Nick642 wrote:
pete26 wrote:
The only time I saw Saracens was in Ulster. Never saw any in BAOR.

They were much quieter than and certainly much less draughty than Humber Pigs.

My first posting was to 22 sigs in Lippstadt circa 1965. Recce Troop was in it's 'infancy' and we had a motley assortment of vehicles including Austin Champs, Humber Pigs and Austin K9's. Gradually, we started to get decent kit and the Champs were replaced with series 2a LWB FFR Landrovers, The K9's disappeared and the Pigs were replaced with Saracens which some of us learned to drive.
After the move to 7 Sigs ( 1967 I think) , the Saracens were upgraded to the Tall Command Post versions and kitted out with C42, C11 and Bid150.

I loved the Saracen. It was fun ( but hard work sometimes) to drive but it was very noisy and we woke up a lot of sleeping civvies by roaring through their sleepy village in the wee small hours and kicking down to a low gear. The resulting scream woke up everyone for miles . A driver in 22 Sigs ( I think it was Jimmy Gray) kicked down once too often and blew the muffler off. ( What a clatter).

Anyways, Recce Troop only ever had two Saracens, designated R1 ( Commanded by Cpl George Bates from Leamington Spa) and the backup was R2 Commanded by me ( L/Cpl Ian Beat). By 1968, the Saracens were replaced with FV432's which were still in service when I left in 1969..

Austin Champs had been replaced when I got in. Some of the 'old sweats' said they used to drag our Cents down to the washdown with them after exercises on Luneberg heath.

Now that is impressive.
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brum
FM
FM



Number of posts : 2808
Age : 83
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime19/9/2012, 20:29

[quote="Nick642
, the Saracens were upgraded to the Tall Command Post versions and kitted out with C42, C11 and Bid150.

We Gunners called them Saracens but strictly speaking they were "Armoured Command Post, RA".
They were fun to drive but far too complex to maintain.
I never knew that other units used them too, makes sense though.

AlienFTM likes this post

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brum
FM
FM



Number of posts : 2808
Age : 83
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime19/9/2012, 20:34

[quote="pete26

Austin Champs had been replaced when I got in. Some of the 'old sweats' said they used to drag our Cents down to the washdown with them after exercises on Luneberg heath.

Now that is impressive.[/quote]

I'm struggling to believe that a Champ could pull a Centurion but I did bump start our fully-laden Bedford POL wagon with one once.
BLUEBELL expressed much disapproval !
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brum
FM
FM



Number of posts : 2808
Age : 83
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime19/9/2012, 20:37

jimsigs1 wrote:
Once saw a saracen based vehicle being used as a fire tender at Silverstone some years ago. Were there civilian versions I wonder.
Jimsigs1

I just noticed this one Jim.
I wonder if what you saw was that fire tender the RAF used. Would it have been called a Salamander ?
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BigJock
WOI
WOI
BigJock


Number of posts : 117
Localisation : €uroland
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Arborfield, Bordon, Osnabrück, Paderborn and once again Paderborn.
Registration date : 2011-06-14

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime20/9/2012, 18:51

As previously stated the RA used them as command posts here is one I changed the engine on at Münsterlager in the mid '60's, belonged to 51 Kabul Bty. 24Msl Regt.




Alvis Saracen - History 51bty10
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lasatalayas
LCpl
LCpl



Number of posts : 6
Registration date : 2012-06-12

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime9/8/2013, 09:18

My personal favourite was the Robert Radar which was a Radar FA9 mounted in/on a Saracen.

I remember a drunken Gunner pinching it one night out of the Radar Park at Larkhill and hiding it on the ranges. Took us a couple to find it as it was all cammed up.

Happy days.
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http://www.kenandglen.com
Wilf
Lt Col
Lt Col
Wilf


Number of posts : 314
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime10/8/2013, 06:04

There may be something of interest here...

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?16817-Saracen-Build-up
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brum
FM
FM



Number of posts : 2808
Age : 83
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime17/8/2013, 14:17

BigJock wrote:
As previously stated the RA used them as command posts here is one I changed the engine on at Münsterlager in the mid '60's, belonged  to 51 Kabul Bty. 24Msl Regt.




Alvis Saracen - History 51bty10


mmmm, funny Shelldrake missed this one.

Anyroad up. I'm trying to remember what the name of that beer is-the label looks familiar. Could it be Herrenhausen ?
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
Shelldrake


Number of posts : 3048
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime21/8/2013, 18:07

brum wrote:
BigJock wrote:
As previously stated the RA used them as command posts here is one I changed the engine on at Münsterlager in the mid '60's, belonged  to 51 Kabul Bty. 24Msl Regt.




Alvis Saracen - History 51bty10

mmmm, funny Shelldrake missed this one.

Anyroad up. I'm trying to remember what the name of that beer is-the label looks familiar. Could it be Herrenhausen ?

That'll be Left Sections CP?
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brum
FM
FM



Number of posts : 2808
Age : 83
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime22/8/2013, 11:29

That Tac sign must've been introduced after the Great Exodus, in the mid 60s.

While I was in 24 the CP was always "H".

By the way Shelldrake, it seems to me that there should be a Gunner-related caption for your avatar.

"Bad ram" springs to mind.

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kevinp55
LCpl
LCpl



Number of posts : 9
Localisation : 3rd january
Cap Badge : royal horse guards
Places Served : windsor herford raf pergamos cyprus
Registration date : 2014-03-22

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime18/4/2014, 11:04

pete26capt saracens were in baor also saladins my regiment Royal Horse Guards had them
also ferrets this was in 1962-66
kevinp
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caiden5678
Private
Private



Number of posts : 1
Registration date : 2019-11-14

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: 96 BA 69   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime14/11/2019, 17:53

Hello, I was wondering if I could get into contact and get a few pictures of the Saracen please? My grandfather used to drive it while he was in the army I know I’m 7 years too late ish but we would absolutely love to know it’s in good condition, I saw some pictures of it in your shed on another website, as if anyone else it would be appreciated if you had any contact details for mettlen, many thanks.
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AlienFTM
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt



Number of posts : 61
Age : 68
Localisation : Hampshire
Cap Badge : 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars
Places Served : NI, Tidworth, UNFICYP, BAOR, Worthy Down
Registration date : 2007-12-07

Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime27/7/2022, 17:13

brum wrote:
[quote="Nick642
, the Saracens were upgraded to the Tall Command Post versions and kitted out with C42, C11 and Bid150.

We Gunners called them Saracens but strictly speaking they were "Armoured Command Post, RA".
They were fun to drive but far too complex to maintain.
I never knew that other units used them too, makes sense though.
The vehicle in question must have been a Saracen Armoured Command Vehicle, used by all RAC regiments (3 in Command Troop, Regimental HQ and two in each of the squadron HQs, plus ambulances, one per squadron) until the very end of the 70s when Sultan became available.

15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars deployed to Paderborn with 3 Armd Div in October 1978. Command Troop went to Moenchengladbach to collect ACVs. They gave us ACPRAs.

We did one exercise with them before taking them back and getting a refund replacement ACVs.
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Alvis Saracen - History Empty
PostSubject: Re: Alvis Saracen - History   Alvis Saracen - History Icon_minitime

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