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 BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS

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JPW
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Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
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PostSubject: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   7/7/2011, 20:28

I believe this subject is worthy of a stand alone slot

My start point is the discussions under the Quebec Barracks Osnabruck heading

My thoughts are

In the immediate post war period in Summer 1945 the British 2nd Army (future BAOR) was housed in a variety of accommodation
This ranged from

1. The traditional brick built barracks dating back to the late 1880s/90s built at the time of the German Reunification and the rise to power of Bismarck. Westminster Barracks Minden was very familiar to me, there were similar examples in practically all the BAOR Garrisons of later years

2. The Hitler Barracks built in the late 1930s after the rise to power of Hitler to house the expanded Regular Army, the best accommodation of its time and for many years to come

3. Wooden hutted camps built in 1939 onwards to provide a cheaper version of the brick Hitler design. Used not only by the German Armed Forces but Civilian workers employed in the expanding defence industries. After war was declared used as Accommodation for conscripted foreign workers and also POW Camps. The life expectancy of this design was limited

4 Tented accommodation particularly in areas where there was significant bomb damage or battle damage incurred during the last weeks of the war. The Canadians in Oldenburg and Seine Camp Kiel are examples

In the late 1940s the British hostilities only units had all returned to the UK and BAOR began to reorganise to a smaller leaner organisation in fewer locations (the future Ist British Corps as Steve is outlining elsewhere on this site)

This resulted in the need to build additional barracks in cetain Garrisons to provide the correct living and working accommodation for a variety of units. This new build was of single story bungalow design and with precast concrete external walls simlar to the UK prefabs They were designed to last twenty years and provided a pretty basic solution to the problem

The Loddenheide complex in Munster was probably the biggest of this design but there were examples throughout BAOR including the refurbished Quebec Barracks Osnabruck, St Georges Barracks Minden plus the new build barrack complex in Osnabruck along th Ringstrasse. The Canadian barracks in the Soest? Werl area later occupied by 3(UK) Division were probably the last to be built to this design

In the 1980s with the 1940s new build life expired the introduuction of accommodation charges following the introduction of the miltary salary there was an urgent need to introduce a modernisation programme to include double glazing and the division of the large 4/6 man bedroom into one/two man rooms (bedsit style). The photos of Quebec Barracks show the results of this programme which was never fully completed

I have said enough, over to you Gentlemen to record your thoughts/ memories
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   7/7/2011, 20:50

Quote :
This new build was of single story bungalow design and with precast concrete external walls simlar to the UK prefabs They were designed to last twenty years
This design was known as Op Humane (built 1940s/50s), and as you rightly say had a expected limited life. However, Birdwood Barracks, Bunde ( & others) were still being used until the early-90s

Quote :
In the 1980s with the 1940s new build life expired the introduuction of accommodation charges following the introduction of the miltary salary there was an urgent need to introduce a modernisation programme to include double glazing and the division of the large 4/6 man bedroom into one/two man rooms (bedsit style).

In the early 1980s 'Barrack Modernisation' was introduced which was a Flat Concept based on 1 and 2 man rooms with communal washing , drying and bath faciliies within each flat. Also at that time fitted carpet in bedrooms was introduced (!). 'Barrack Modernisation' was actually introduced as the result of the Tabloid Press campaigning for better accommodation for our Troops. Ripon/Catterick Barracks Bielefeld and Mansergh Barracks, Gutersloh are examples as the Programme was almost completed there before the 'usual funds dried-up!'
Ripon Barracks was a particularly good example - Block 8 was constructed that the Cellar areas included Changing/Locker & Shower areas - this meant that soldiers could shower and change before going upstairs to their flats. (This was HQ 1 (BR) Corps which moved to Block 9/10 because of the Modernisation).

For those who are not aware, in this Millenium the soldiers have single-man flats with en-suite facilities (known as Project Puma). The old tubular steel 2'6" beds (with slab latex foam mattresses) have disappeared and they now have comfortable 4' double divan beds with Interior Sprung mattresses.
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   7/7/2011, 22:46

Quote :
Quote:
This new build was of single story bungalow design and with precast concrete external walls simlar to the UK prefabs They were designed to last twenty years

This design was known as Op Humane (built 1940s/50s), and as you rightly say had a expected limited life. However, Birdwood Barracks, Bunde ( & others) were still being used until the early-90s

Maresfield barracks Herford was this designe..built in the 50s and lasted untill the 90s
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Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   8/7/2011, 19:50

Marefield Barracks Gordon, those are memories. Spent 4 years there in the 1960's but alas all gone now (couple of installations left) - only little houses now.
Most of the other barracks in Herford were German pre-war buildings - well designed and comfortable. I spent 2 years (1952-4) in Harewood Barrack and have fond memories of the place. I see that Harewood Barracks, Wentworth and Hammersmith Barracks are still standing. Testiment to good design with decent material etc, plus German quality.

Jimsigs1
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cartav
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Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands.
Registration date : 2011-04-26

PostSubject: Re: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   9/7/2011, 00:52

I spent most of my 2 years of NS in Quebec Bks. Osnabruck. In comparison with previous UK accommodation the ORs' barrack blocks were first class for the 1950's. We were a Light Ack Ack regiment of three gun batteries, each with with an establishment of, about, 120 OR.s, 15 SNCOs & 8 officers. A gun battery's ORs, except a minimal number of accompanied Regulars, were housed in three similar, single storey blocks. SNCOs & Officers had their own messes.

From 50 years on, each OR block is estimated to have been 12.000 m wide X 60.000 m long. There was a central corridor around 2.000m wide,. at each end of which there was an entrance, and a third doorway mid-way along one long elevation. There were toilets sited at both ends of the corridor. Mid-way, on one side, opposite the third entrance, there was a wash room, a bathroom & showers, a wet room for kit cleaning and a drying room. At the front entrance, accessed off the main roadway, there was a full length mirror, an office on the left, and a quiet room/ writing room with tables & easy chairs on the right. Apart from a troop store, the remaining floor space was divided up into sleeping accommodation. In each block, internal layouts were similar, but not exactly so. In Block 9, a Battery HQ Troop unit, there was just one 6-bed room, about four 2-bed rooms for JNCOs and in the remainder each had four bed spaces. Internally, walls were decorated with cream emulsion paint above a 1.000 m high, dark green dado topped with a narrow black line.

The blocks were constructed of rendered insulating blockwork with low pitched roofs. Apart from some communal rooms around the NAAFI quarters which had secondary double glazing, the accommodation units were single glazed in timber frames. Block 9 had solid floors with a red mastic asphalt topping, Blocks 7 & 8 had timber floors in the main.

For heating, each bedroom was fitted with a black vitreous enamelled solid fuel stove sited in one internal corner. It was complete with a covered hot plate which could be used for making drinks, the units were fired with coal brickettes, but in winter these were limited in quantity. Fires could not be lit until afternoon dismissal and had to be cleaned out before first parade. Exposed flexible steel flue pipes carried exhaust gases to roof outlets. An externally accessible boiler house with a coke fired appliance provided domestic hot water for baths & basins, the drying room had central heating pipes. Besides tubular steel beds, each room had double width steel lockers, bedside units, a 6'.0" GS table & folding chairs. A shelf above each bed carried the soldier's small pack, his greatcoat hung below. Externally, wide grassed areas were maintained by civilian personnel.

For the 1950's, some features were superior to contemporary UK practice.... eg. the electrical fuseboard, sited near the front entrance had push button circuit breakers, and, in the wash room, basins had flexible pipe connections with isolators to each tap.

1950's squaddies were used to primitive UK accommodation of wooden huts or wartime blocks which could give little protection from the elements with, sometimes, nothing more than a 4. 1/2" common brick wall, or uninsulated Nissen huts. They thought themselves lucky to be in Quebec Bks. When a return visit was made to the camp near the turn of the century, it was obvious that a 21st Century soldier would have believed his predecessors' accommodation to be less than adequate. Radios, satellite TVs, & microwave ovens were the norm, one -man rooms were not unusual. However, some told they slept in Portacabins because accommodation in the blocks was limited..


Last edited by cartav on 9/7/2011, 08:50; edited 1 time in total
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Hardrations
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   9/7/2011, 01:43

Quote" This new build was of single story bungalow design and with precast concrete external walls simlar to the UK prefabs They were designed to last twenty years and provided a pretty basic solution to the problem

The Loddenheide complex in Munster was probably the biggest of this design but there were examples throughout BAOR including the refurbished Quebec Barracks Osnabruck, St Georges Barracks Minden plus the new build barrack complex in Osnabruck along th Ringstrasse. The Canadian barracks in the Soest? Werl area later occupied by 3(UK " End Quote.

This style as used by us was updated in the late 60's in the Cdn. Brigade area. When my unit was moved to Fort Qu'applle in Iserlohn (Winkleman Kasserne) I found these Hitller time Barrarack a real improvement over those built in the 50's. The Cdn Govt sunk a ton of money into improving and up dating these barracks. Only to eventualy be torn down after the German Para outfit moved out. I believe only the gymnasium is left standing.
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Places Served : Harrogate 1949-52. HQ BAOR Sig Regt 1952-54, Korea 1954-55, Egypt 1955, Cyprus 1955-57, HMS Santon 1957, UK 7th Hussars 1957-59, 1st Gds Bde 1959-60, 201 Signal Sqn 1960-62, 206 Sig Sqn 1962-63, 7 Sig Regt 1963-66, 249 Sig Sqn 1966-68, 11 Sig Regt 1968-72. Retired 1972
Registration date : 2010-02-22

PostSubject: Re: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   9/7/2011, 01:57

Hardrations,

Would the Loddenheide complex in Munster you mentioned be another name for York Barracks ? I was stationed there in 1962-3 with 6th Infantry Brigade Signal Squadron. York Barracks complex consisted of the barracks, NAAFI shop and YWCA canteen I seemed th remember.

Jimsigs1
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   9/7/2011, 08:30

Hardrations wrote:
Quote" This new build was of single story bungalow design and with precast concrete external walls simlar to the UK prefabs They were designed to last twenty years and provided a pretty basic solution to the problem

The Loddenheide complex in Munster was probably the biggest of this design but there were examples throughout BAOR including the refurbished Quebec Barracks Osnabruck, St Georges Barracks Minden plus the new build barrack complex in Osnabruck along th Ringstrasse. The Canadian barracks in the Soest? Werl area later occupied by 3(UK " End Quote.

This style as used by us was updated in the late 60's in the Cdn. Brigade area. When my unit was moved to Fort Qu'applle in Iserlohn (Winkleman Kasserne) I found these Hitller time Barrarack a real improvement over those built in the 50's. The Cdn Govt sunk a ton of money into improving and up dating these barracks. Only to eventualy be torn down after the German Para outfit moved out. I believe only the gymnasium is left standing.

Most of Mons Barracks/Fort Qu'applle/Winkleman Kaserne remains today...it is the former Flak Kaserne/Aldeshot Barracks that has almost all gone the gymnasium and former officers mess built for the British post 1945 remain...you will find details here britisharmyiniserlohn.blogspot.com
Cheers
Steve
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR BARRACK DESIGNS   9/7/2011, 11:06

jimsigs

york barracks munster was a 1930s hitler design situated in the village of gremendorf just to the east of munster.

the loddenheide complex was closer to munster on the old luftwaffe airfield comprising buller, swinton and waterloo barracks

across the road from the barrack complex was a large married quarters patch (there was a much smaller one in the york barracks area but that was mainly officers and a few warrant officers i seem to recall)
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