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 Blankenese

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Cassy
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PostSubject: Blankenese   7/12/2016, 11:29

Hello  In 1947 my cousin was born in the house next door to the Officer's Mess in Blankenese, Germany where her father who was in the English Army worked.  She was brought to live in England when she was a few years old, and would love to visit the house in which she was born.  I wonder if anyone can identify where exactly it is?  I attach photo's - OM on the photo stands for Officer's Mess, O.HOME - our home.

With many thanks
Carole

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Last edited by Cassy on 11/12/2016, 12:01; edited 1 time in total
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   8/12/2016, 18:33

Welcome Carole

If you Google "Blankenese" and check the map the location will come clear "Falkensteinufer or Strandweg" having a 1938 Hamburg and District map can confirm this would be the same names in 1945

My best guess is http://www.strandhotel-blankenese.de/

Hope this helps

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Cassy
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   9/12/2016, 10:14

steve wrote:
Welcome Carole

If you Google "Blankenese" and check the map the location will come clear "Falkensteinufer or Strandweg" having a 1938 Hamburg and District map can confirm this would be the same names in 1945

My best guess is http://www.strandhotel-blankenese.de/

Hope this helps



Thank you so much! I have had a look on Google maps and I think that it is Falkensteiner Ufer - the area in the water where the ferry is coming in on my photo, and the trees behind the houses look the same.  My cousin was told that the house she was born in was owned by a millionaire who owned a yatch - I have a lovely photo of her mother on the yatch. Do you think there is a way of finding out where the Officers Mess would have been, would the army have records? Many thanks again, I very much appreciate your kind help. Carole
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   9/12/2016, 16:38

Have a list of requisitioned properties for Hamburg District as at 20 Dec 46 and addresses on the two roads mentioned not shown, there were several properties used as Officer’s Messes, have looked on Google Earth and now believe my first thoughts to be incorrect, why not follow the two roads in 3D mode

Prior to 15 Apr 46 and the formation of Hamburg District, responsibility for Hamburg was HQ 10 Garrison and HQ 8 Base Sub Area, there are records at the Public Records Office in Kew but feel it would be an almost impossible task wading through hundreds of pages, JPW my fellow researcher will confirm

Best of luck
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Cassy
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   9/12/2016, 19:10

steve wrote:
Have a list of requisitioned properties for Hamburg District as at 20 Dec 46 and addresses on the two roads mentioned not shown, there were several properties used as Officer’s Messes, have looked on Google Earth and now believe my first thoughts to be incorrect, why not follow the two roads in 3D mode

Prior to 15 Apr 46 and the formation of Hamburg District, responsibility for Hamburg was HQ 10 Garrison and HQ 8 Base Sub Area, there are records at the Public Records Office in Kew but feel it would be an almost impossible task wading through hundreds of pages, JPW my fellow researcher will confirm

Best of luck

Many thanks - I have looked in 3D and think I may have found it! I hope the link works, but you can find it on Google with the address - in de Bost 39, 22587, Hamburg.  The house in my photo has an unusually shaped roof and seems to match the house on Google. What would be the Officer's Mess is a little obscured, but the the roof of that seems to match too.  Also the area of water in front of the houses where the ferry is in my photo's looks like it could be the same, and the houses in relation to the water and trees behind matches.  What do you think?  Carole

https://goo.gl/maps/2bXJGobPK1K2
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   10/12/2016, 14:28

Looks good, please send my your email address by private message and will send you a section of my 1938 Hamburg and District map for the area
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   11/12/2016, 18:03

Carole, an interesting challenge

As my good friend Steve hints, between us we have details of over fifty units/locations based in the Hamburg area in 1947. I have checked my working notes and there is nothing in respect of Blankenese, however this is not surprising, the town was a very affluent area with no Hitler era barracks and would have been regarded as docile in terms of post war German politics, there was therefore no justification for a significant British military presence there.

I have examined the unit war diaries/historical records held in the National Archives at Kew referred to by Steve and can confirm there is nothing of interest therein. It was relatively rare for a unit to record details of their living accommodation if outside their barracks. The major exception is the prestige hotels adjacent to the Binnen Alster in Hamburg which were seized as combined living/working accommodation by the major Headquarters of the British Army on arrival in May 1945. There is however plenty of anecdotal evidence that other units had no compunction in seizing property owned or used by Nazi or SS officials and then using them as Mess Accommodation or Senior Officer's residences as and when required in the immediate post war period.

I have another good friend who has a remarkable ability to find accurate information from obscure sources, including German language websites. He spotted your query and suggests that what is now known as the Eva Brandstrom Haus off Falkensteinerweg on the other side of Blankenese might be worth investigating. Now much extended and a medical centre with a dedicated website, www.ebh-hamburg.de/geschichtedeshauses This has an internal link which outlines the history of the site which meets many of the criteria I have outlined earlier. (the original owners were German Jews who fled to New York in the 1930s. Naturally the Nazi's seized all the families' remaining assets, including property. The British therefore would have had no compunction in similarly confiscating the building for their own use in May 1945).
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   12/12/2016, 01:19

JPW wrote:
Carole, an interesting challenge

As my good friend Steve hints, between us we have details of over fifty units/locations based in the Hamburg area in 1947. I have checked my working notes and there is nothing in respect of Blankenese, however this is not surprising, the town was a very affluent area with no Hitler era barracks and would have been regarded as docile in terms of post war German politics, there was therefore  no justification for a significant British military presence there.

I have examined the unit war diaries/historical records held in the National Archives at Kew referred to by Steve and can confirm there is nothing of interest therein. It was relatively rare for a unit to record details of their living accommodation if outside their barracks. The major exception is the prestige hotels adjacent to the Binnen Alster in Hamburg which were seized as combined living/working accommodation by the major Headquarters of the British Army on arrival in May 1945. There is however plenty of anecdotal evidence that other units had no compunction in seizing property owned or used by Nazi or SS officials and then using them as Mess Accommodation or Senior Officer's residences as and when required in the immediate post war period.

I have another good friend who has a remarkable ability to find accurate information from obscure sources, including German language websites. He spotted your query and suggests that what is now known as the Eva Brandstrom Haus off Falkensteinerweg on the other side of Blankenese might be worth investigating. Now much extended and a medical centre with a dedicated website, www.ebh-hamburg.de/geschichtedeshauses This has an internal link which outlines the history of the site which meets many of the criteria I have outlined earlier. (the original owners were German Jews who fled to New York in the 1930s. Naturally the Nazi's seized all the families' remaining assets, including property. The British therefore would have had no compunction in similarly confiscating the building for their own use in May 1945).

Thank you so much for your very kind help and for this information.  I think that I have identified the house on Google maps - the address is "in de Bost 39, Hamburg".  Luckily it has a distinctive roof, also the house next door which was the officers mess. Of course it isn't easy to be absolutely sure comparing an old photo with Google earth - and it would have been good to have confirmation that it was an officer's mess.  

If I do have the correct house it has a very interesting history and is known for it's architecture.  My cousin who was born there in 1947 was told that the house belonged to a millionaire who owned a yacht, and I have a photo of her mother on the yacht.  I found that Ernest Otto Hubener lived there up until 1945 when he was murdered for being a resistance fighter. After the war in 1919 he founded the insurance company Jauch and Hübener in Hamburg which became the most important insurance company on the continent, so he may well have been a millionaire. In 1953 the estate was bought by Rudolph August Oetker  who owned the Dr Oetker food company and it appears it may still be owned by the Oetker family.  

It would be interesting to know if the Hubener family were living at the house in 1947. Ernest Hubener had two sons Jurgen and Harald - so it could have been them that lived there and had the yacht.  I have found a document that lists the owners of the house going back to the 1700's and it appears from this that the house went directly from the ownership of the Hubener family to Rudolph Oetker, but the document has been translated and isn't that clear.

This has indeed been an interesting challenge and I very much appreciate your help.  I am attaching a recent photo of the house.

Carole

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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   12/12/2016, 16:38

You may be surprised to know that as at 31 Mar 47 there were 888 officers on strength of Hamburg Sub Area of Hamburg District, barracks were only just coming into use and had very little officer’s accommodation, hence the reason for requisitioned properties
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   13/12/2016, 20:47

If you search or google .{ Street view my house}with the address , Falkensteinerufer Blankenese, there are many houses on this side of the river Elbe that are from around the date your father was there.If you have other photos you may be able to recognise the house probably by the roof shape. Fist blow up the size of the photos to maximise the view. It look a nice area. best of luck Cassy.
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   14/12/2016, 10:41

KIeler sprotten wrote:
If you search or google .{ Street view my house}with the address , Falkensteinerufer Blankenese, there are many houses on this side of the river Elbe that are from around the date your father was there.If you have other photos you may be able to recognise the house probably by the roof shape. Fist blow up the size of the photos to maximise the view. It look a nice area. best of luck Cassy.

Thank you
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PostSubject: Photo   14/12/2016, 18:08

Here is an aerial photo from Google earth of the house that I think is the one where my cousin and her family lived in 1947 (showing very distinctive roof), and next door the officer's mess where her father worked. The address is "in de Bost 39, Hamburg".  Unfortunately Google earth doesn't seem to allow me to copy a view of the front of the houses.

Very many thanks to everyone for their kind help in finding it.

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alan8376
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   15/12/2016, 09:58

German strict 'Privacy Laws' allow owners to remove Google Street View of properties. It seems to be a Germany wide reason for very low Street Views access.
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PostSubject: Google maps   16/12/2016, 17:09

alan8376 wrote:
German strict 'Privacy Laws' allow owners to remove Google Street View of properties. It seems to be a Germany wide reason for very low Street Views access.

Thanks. I've not been able to view this house on Google Street View at all. I have looked along "in de Bost" and when I get just before the house there is a gate and beyond what looks like a private estate, and can go no further. The image I've copied from above is on Google earth, I can tilt the image and see the front of the house as well as rotate the image and see all around, but can't then copy the image. Hope that makes sense!
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   16/12/2016, 17:22

There is one photo, low resolution on the Net, taken through what looks like netting of what of the river/garden side of the house. I am sure you have seen it!


Last edited by alan8376 on 16/12/2016, 17:34; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   16/12/2016, 17:26

alan8376 wrote:
There is one photo, lowish resolution on the Net, taken through what looks like netting of what apprears like the river/garden side of the house. I am sure you have seen it!


This one?  
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PostSubject: Blankenese   17/12/2016, 12:51

1.  The house at  In de Bost 39  is here:

Enter here the Internet prefix .google.de/maps/place/In+de+Bost+39,+22587+Hamburg/@53.5542316,9.824848,231m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x47b184793f80c1e1:0x8b32992d58f6ab0e!2sHirsch+Park!8m2!3d53.5565596!4d9.8258768!3m4!1s0x47b1847e94b4bfe1:0x700d54894a6d4f6b!8m2!3d53.55423!4d9.82598

2.  It lies inside a compound and the Google car did not get in!


​3.  the black and white photo " through a net" is actually an older newspaper photograph​
- where grey scales were depicted by dots in a white background!

4.  Rupert Oetker was from the shipping (Reederei) branch of the Oetker family.

5.   Bundeswehr Leadership Academy  is the former Uxbridge Barracks  - not far North !  served by  S  Bahn Hamburg Hochkamp and probably where yon officers spent daylight hours!

Enter here the internet prefix .google.de/maps/place/F%C3%BChrungsakademie+der+Bundeswehr/@53.5608504,9.8314318,224m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x47b184793f80c1e1:0x8b32992d58f6ab0e!2sHirsch+Park!8m2!3d53.5565596!4d9.8258768!3m4!1s0x0:0xcf413dff40be646d!8m2!3d53.5608504!4d9.8325276

​Note:  Blankenese is a former independent town, now a suburban quarter in the borough Altona in the western part of Hamburg. It is located on right bank of the Elbe river. In 2006 the population was 13,011​ (Change since 1938 street plan)

​6.   This is the picture of the house from Stadt Hamburg where it is listed as a corporate Guest House for Oetker.​  
Internet prefix .hamburg.de/altona/baudenkmaeler/2846882/landhaus-r-godeffroy/
Not for access by the public.  and the house is now under a historic building protection order ie is a "Listed Building" under German rules!
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   17/12/2016, 18:22

[quote="Pborn4"]1.  The house at  In de Bost 39  is here:

Many thanks
Carole
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PostSubject: Godeffoys House In de Bost 39   22/12/2016, 01:31

The Godeffroys house has something of a long history  and has /had landscaped gardens of repute! (Gardens under Landscape protection order since 2003)

This link is in German but the photos give a ground floor view of the building and also a long classic avenue of Lime (Linden) trees in to the Hirsch Park

(http://www).gartenhistorie.de/v1_09/gartenhistorie/hirschpark/

Note:

In der Nachkriegszeit fungierte das alte Landhaus als Schule für die Kinder der Alliierten und wurde erst 1958 an die Gartenbauabteilung Altona übergeben. [11] In den folgenden Jahrzehnten wurden die inzwischen maroden eisernen Antikenrepliken des „Französischen Gartens“ entfernt ...

In the post-war era the old Landhouse functioned as a school for the children of the Allies and was first handed back to the Gardens Dept of Altona. In next decades the cast iron antique replica (now rotten) of the French Gardens was taken away . . .


Last edited by Pborn4 on 22/12/2016, 01:39; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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PostSubject: Re: Blankenese   22/12/2016, 10:28

Pborn4 wrote:
The Godeffroys house has something of a long history  and has /had landscaped gardens of repute! (Gardens under Landscape protection order since 2003)

This link is in German but the photos give a ground floor view of the building and also a long classic avenue of Lime (Linden) trees in to the Hirsch Park

(http://www).gartenhistorie.de/v1_09/gartenhistorie/hirschpark/

Note:

In der Nachkriegszeit fungierte das alte Landhaus als Schule für die Kinder der Alliierten und wurde erst 1958 an die Gartenbauabteilung Altona übergeben. [11] In den folgenden Jahrzehnten wurden die inzwischen maroden eisernen Antikenrepliken des „Französischen Gartens“ entfernt ...

In the post-war era the old Landhouse functioned as a school for the children of the Allies and was first handed back to the Gardens Dept of Altona. In next decades the cast iron antique replica (now rotten) of the French Gardens was taken away . . .


Hello

Thank you very much for that, beautiful photo's of the park and an interesting article. However I don't think the house in the photo is "in de Bost 39" - I think it is what is now Lola Rogge Schule close by.

Carole
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