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 BAOR history

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burgess720
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 138
Registration date : 2008-07-09

PostSubject: BAOR history   9/7/2008, 02:56

Hi all,
I have just registered after watching this site for a couple of months.

A good history of BAOR is needed, and now before some old soldiers fade away.

I served 1951-1952 with 40 Field Sqn, Royal Engineers, 37 AER at Roberts Barracks, Osnabruck; and cant seem to locate anyone from my time there.
We had a great time, with many great memories: trips to Hamburg, Hannover, Sennalager, Hameln, and six weeks in Belgium in 1952. BAOR was certainly the best posting then; especially food and barracks, not sure about the beer!
Central heating in 1951, no one had that in England then.

What amazes me is so few on this site, bearing mind that during the National Service period there must have been close to 1000 arriving in BAOR every day; where are they all now and how can they be contacted to pass on memories?

Last year I wrote an article for some railway friends regarding BAOR Trains, aimed at locomotives and carriages; in fact it was even difficult to find details of one type which I photographed in Osnabruck.

Regards
Tony [living in Sydney, Australia]
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
jim

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   9/7/2008, 09:17

Hi Tony, welcome to the site mate.

"I served 1951-1952 with 40 Field Sqn, Royal Engineers, 37 AER at Roberts Barracks, Osnabruck; and cant seem to locate anyone from my time there."

I was an Army "Brat" in Osnabruck and used to hang around the swimming pool and stables in Roberts BKS during the summer holidays.

Talking about Military trains, there was a thread posted about that recently. I'd be interested in your article as there are many "Train Spotters" on the RAOC Board who'd love to read it.

Smile
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
jim

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   9/7/2008, 09:18

I found the post Tony,

Here it is:

CLICKY
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burgess720
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Number of posts : 138
Registration date : 2008-07-09

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   10/7/2008, 03:29

Thanks Jim,

My article was only the leave Blue, Red and Green trains.
That last post I had never heard of that type of wagon used by Army, although I do remember seeing a few wagons with those sentry boxes, they had been introduced by the German Army to guard trains, what a terrible job, freezing in winter, and hot and smokey in summer.

Strangely, in Roberts Barracks we only went to the areas we had to. Not being a truck driver, I only a couple of times went to the MT yard; half of the barracks belonged to 38 AER so you never went there, except I think if you reported sick the MO was down the far end of 38 AER front blocks?
I dont reember the swimming pool either.
I dont remember seeing Army 'brats' either.
Also looking on line at the map, there is an extensive railway yard and stores area at the back of the site, I dont remember going there.

My article is on an MS word file, which includes a few photos; anyone interested I can send.
Email me at ware@bigpond.com.au for a copy.

I well remember Sennelager, but cant remember where we stayed, only it was a lot of fun, and after a week you could handle a 303 better than John Wayne!!!

More memories are required from all who served there; but I guess a lot of National Service blokes were not happy doing time, and could not get out quick enough Roll on Demob; so have pushed those days out of thier minds. A real pity.

National Service did us all a lot of good when you think about it, should still be on and would cut a lot of crime we have today. Military Law was a lot tougher than Civil Street of today.

Cheers
Tony
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
jim

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   10/7/2008, 08:37

Tony, do you happen to know who provided the boarding school trains. I remember that at the begining and end of every term at Hamm, Wilhelmshaven and Plon (should be an umlaut there)
we were all put on trains to the various military garrisons.


Last edited by jim on 11/7/2008, 09:26; edited 1 time in total
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Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 66
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re:- Trains   10/7/2008, 12:15

Take a look at the "In Theatre Schooling" page on the main site, there may be something in the links there.

Paul.
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Windsor Boy
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 33
Localisation : UK
Cap Badge : RE Padsbrat
Places Served : Hohne, Sennelager, Iserlohn, Osnabrück, Hamm and Cyprus
Registration date : 2007-09-17

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   10/7/2008, 13:11

During the 1970's from Osnabrück to Hamm at the beginning and end of term, we always travelled on Bundes-bahn.
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
jim

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   11/7/2008, 09:27

Thanks Paul, I'll check that out

Windsor boy? I take it you got your nic from your school then Smile
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Windsor Boy
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 33
Localisation : UK
Cap Badge : RE Padsbrat
Places Served : Hohne, Sennelager, Iserlohn, Osnabrück, Hamm and Cyprus
Registration date : 2007-09-17

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   13/7/2008, 01:44

Hi Jim,

Yes I went to WBS in Hamm 1974-77. Cool

When were you in Osnabrück and which school did you attend?

Cheers

Mick
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
jim

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   24/7/2008, 08:55

Mick,

I was in Osnabruck in the early to mid '60's and I went to Prince Rupert's in Wilhelmshaven.

Tony, I posted you article and gor great responses, see:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/raoc/vpost?id=2856535
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burgess720
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 138
Registration date : 2008-07-09

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   25/7/2008, 04:13

jim wrote:
Mick,

I was in Osnabruck in the early to mid '60's and I went to Prince Rupert's in Wilhelmshaven.

Tony, I posted you article and gor great responses, see:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/raoc/vpost?id=2856535


Hi Jim,
Had a look at your site and a good number of comments. Thanks.

Some very good memories; those boat and train trips were the first trip abroad for most of us, the contrasts between the troop ships, meals on the train and a new language was great, even for those who were not happy at having to do National Service.

I had an elder cousin who did his National Service down a coal mine, so we had it really good in BAOR.

There seems to be enough for a big article covering the Army brats who went to school in Germany. I wonder if many actual travelled by themselves back to U.K. for any reason?

Keep up the memories, before they fade away.

Cheers
Tony
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Ian-redcap70
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt
Ian-redcap70

Number of posts : 65
Age : 87
Localisation : Brisbane, OZ
Cap Badge : RMP
Places Served : Bielefeld, Colchester
Registration date : 2007-08-16

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   25/7/2008, 20:37

I can clearly remember joining a troop train at Woking in April 1953 (I've no idea where it started out from), which had just come from Pirbright.

I think that it was a double header (two locos) and was so long it had to stop a few time for squaddies to get on with all their kit.

It left about 1400 and went non-stop skirting London, eventually arriving at Parkeston during the evening.

The "Vienna" troopship had already sailed fully loaded, so we (literally hundreds from mixed units), had to bunk down for the night to wait for the Saturday night sailing to the Hook.

Arriving at the Hook at 0730 next morning (Sunday). We had breakie, and then boarded one of two 'troopers' headed for Germany.

These were very comfortable, and the tucker was A1 in the Restaurant Waggon. No complaints here!

Our train was headed for Berlin and I, together with about 100 others, got off at Osnabrück about 1300 and were trucked on to Bad Oyenhausen to await posting next day (Monday).

Many of us from that era have passed on now, and so are the memories. A shame really, which is why everyone should mention them while they still can!
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burgess720
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 138
Registration date : 2008-07-09

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   26/7/2008, 01:24

Hi Redcap,

I have heard of a number of trains to Parkeston from places other than Liverpool Street. Some coming from up north such as Manchester.
Generally this occured when a complete unit was moved the BAOR.
If I remember Pirbright was the MP's training base, would not been a trainload from Pirbright. The train would have taken an interesting route.
So many military bases within 20 miles of Aldershot in those days, the train could have started at any of a number of stations.
Guessing travelled perhaps via Kensington and around North London to Stratford to join the line to Parkeston. Would have taken a few hours, maybe that was why you missed the boat.

Yes many must now have passed on, it is now 55 years, how time flys. However, much has remeained in my memory, I guess because it was a great experience. Free travel is always worth having.
Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Tony
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Ian-redcap70
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt
Ian-redcap70

Number of posts : 65
Age : 87
Localisation : Brisbane, OZ
Cap Badge : RMP
Places Served : Bielefeld, Colchester
Registration date : 2007-08-16

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   26/7/2008, 06:51

Hi Tony,

The RMP Depot then was in Woking. Pirbright was the Guards Depot. Various units had also boarded our train in Aldershot I believe! The Vienna had sailed because it was packed full of personnel which had arrived earlier that day I guess!

You are right-where did the last 50 odd years go to?

Cheers,

Ian.
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Ian-redcap70
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt
Ian-redcap70

Number of posts : 65
Age : 87
Localisation : Brisbane, OZ
Cap Badge : RMP
Places Served : Bielefeld, Colchester
Registration date : 2007-08-16

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   26/7/2008, 07:07

Somewhere on these pages was a reference to Bad Salzuflen and whether any badges were based there?

I have just learned that in 1952 only RMP were based there.

Their HQ was in Park Straße, and the NCO's were billeted in the Park Hotel in Herford Straße. This hotel had been requisitioned by MOD.
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
jim

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   31/7/2008, 10:31

ah what wonderful memories. I recall a Journey from Berlin to Hamburg, I was vey young, maybe 3. I do recall it was bitterly cold and all the troops were stamping their boots, then suddenly my Mum and I were on the train and it was lovely and warm. We then travelled from Hamburg to Harwich on a troop ship, now that was smelly Smile

I don't know where we went to from Harwich, probably Bury as my Dad was a Lancashire Fusilier.
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'granny'
Cpl
Cpl


Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   4/10/2008, 22:12

As a 15 year old in 1948 I travelled with my family from Harwich to the Hook of Holland thence by train to Hamburg. We were met at Altona station by Dad with a 15cwt truck which took us to 15 BOD at Glinde, about 15 km from Hamburg. As a 15 year old I had the most marvellous 2 years there. Went to Hohenzollern Ring School in Hamburg for a while. When I left school I got a job in the signwriters shop in the depot. What memories!!
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Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 66
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: 15 BOD   5/10/2008, 12:01

Jim,

I think your expertise is called for here in verifying the location Very Happy

I have looked at two areas called Glinde in the Hamburg area, and the one to the west seems to be more likely. The area still seem to be in use, although the rail spur looks as thought it has been taken up.

There is an area in Reinbeck that looks very similar to other MQ layouts in Germany as well.

Paul.
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Sandbag
Private
Private


Number of posts : 1
Age : 70
Localisation : Malta
Cap Badge : RCT, RAEC
Places Served : Dusseldorf, Dortmund, Osnabruck, Monchengladbach
Registration date : 2008-11-10

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   10/11/2008, 12:55

The trains mentioned earlier for the Hamm schoolchildren were special trains organised (nd presumably paid for) by HQ BAOR transport and movements. I was with the movements detachment in Dortmund in the mid 70's and we covered these trains departure and arrivals. Obviously they departed to take the kids home at the end of term and arrived at the start of the next term. If you have ever seen the old St.Trinian's films then you will know what it was like on the platform at Hamm station in those good old days!!
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jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
jim

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   11/11/2008, 09:23

Paul, I've just been looking at google maps of Hamburg and I think you're right.

Sandbag, the scene at the sidings in Wilhelmshaven were definitely reminiscent of St Trinian's. Smile
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Pborn4
Capt
Capt
Pborn4

Number of posts : 219
Age : 72
Localisation : Between Hannover and Herford, off all main routes
Cap Badge : Not even a reservist now - have been Pborn3
Places Served : Oswestry 1965, Paderborn to 1971, NE Dist, Munsterlager from 1974, Sennelager (1976 to 2012)
Registration date : 2016-12-16

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   30/10/2018, 17:39

Berlin the Military Trains - British French and American:

Found this site whilst researching other BAOR stories:

https://umgebung.wordpress.com/category/berlin-pre-1989/

the author/compiler is: Andrew Laird at https://umgebung.wordpress.com/about/

also features pictures of Berlin (incl Checkpoint Charlie) when the Wall came down
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Pborn4
Capt
Capt
Pborn4

Number of posts : 219
Age : 72
Localisation : Between Hannover and Herford, off all main routes
Cap Badge : Not even a reservist now - have been Pborn3
Places Served : Oswestry 1965, Paderborn to 1971, NE Dist, Munsterlager from 1974, Sennelager (1976 to 2012)
Registration date : 2016-12-16

PostSubject: Re: BAOR history   11/11/2018, 01:45

Research on the History of the British in Germany


The first exhibition covered the Brits in Westfalen and was shown at Paderborn and is now on Tour

26 Aug 18    Mindener Stadt Museum
28 Oct 18    City Archives Hamm

13 Jan -  10 Mar 2019        Ermschertal Museum Schloss Strünkede Herne  Entitled: "Little London in MFO Boxes"

17 Mar – 12 May 2019        Historisches Museum Bielefeld, Ravensberger Park

19 May – 14 Jul 2019          Städtisches Museum Herford

21 Jul -  08 Sep 2019          Kreismuseum Wewelsburg, Büren-Wewelsburg (nr Paderborn))

and   4 May to 2 Jun 2019 in Landtag NRW at Düsseldorf
Zum weitgehenden Abzug der Truppen soll eine Ausstellung im Landtag
Nordrhein-Westfalen das deutsch-britische Zusammenleben in seiner Vielfalt zeigen.

https://www.landtag.nrw.de/portal/WWW/GB_II/II.1/Pressemitteilungen-Informationen-Aufmacher/Pressemitteilungen-Informationen/Pressemitteilungen/2018/10/0210_Ausstellung_Briten.jsp

The special exhibition opening 4 May - 2 June 2019 in the Land Parliament (Landtag) in Duesseldorf  
is to put emphasis on British life in the occupation of the Rhine-land and afterwards
and looks at daily life in Cologne/Duesseldorf/Bonn  - the airports, and the JSLO and various CVWW Canteens and BFBS.
JHQ Rheindahlen, as well as NAAFI

Dr. Bettina Blum ∙ Universität Paderborn ∙ Historisches Institut - Arbeitsbereich Zeitgeschichte ∙ Warburger Str. 100 ∙ 33098 Paderborn
/color]


The British in North Rhine Westphalia / Germany   -   Dr. Bettina Blum, Paderborn University

The Project


Bettina is an historian and has been the guiding light behind the exhibition “The British in Westphalia” which was shown in Paderborn in winter 2017/18 – a smaller version is now travelling through Westphalia (please find more information above or on www.briten-in-westfalen.de]; or on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BriteninWestfalen/)

Following the success of the initial exhibition, a new exhibition will be presented at the State Parliament of North Rhine Westphalia in Düsseldorf from 4 May until 2 June 2019. It will focus on the varied and changing relationships between members of the British Forces and German communities from the end of the war until recent times. It will include experiences from Brits and Germans in the Rhineland, especially in the  Düsseldorf, Cologne, Bonn and JHQ Rheindahlen areas.
Bettina hopes to continue her researches into a project, together with Paderborn University and the many friends she has made thus far,  which will cover the whole area of BAOR/BFG  - the British Zone and Berlin.

Her research does not single out military history nor political history (although both aspects are part of the story), she likes to look at life built on memories and experiences exchanged between members of two communities -  ordinary  people – of soldiers and officers as well as of wives and children and of their German neighbours, work colleagues, friends - of civil authorities and of emergency services - multiple interfaces.  

From the feedback, Bettina and her associates have gained insight and knowledge, they see how many interesting customs, hobbies and habits have been mutually exchanged and absorbed in British and German communities.


Bettina is looking to:

Capture both British and German perspectives and to add as much variety, depth and colour to the exhibitions and to expand the research project as "all-encompassing" as possible. Hearing or reading of your experiences and memories - by interview or social chat looking at your photos and memoirs,  or through initial contact by e-mail (or snail mail)..

She looks for photos (slides, prints, negatives and film/video), maps, postcards, personal letters, commentaries, event programmes, trophies and all kinds of memorabilia – to borrow for the exhibition, to photograph/copy and to return or to keep them in a museum as a memory for future generations:
   - Life in the Rheinland, especially at JHQ, and the BFES Schools and boarding schools, and hospitals and workshops and places
   where Germans worked alongside and mingled in the community
   - Experiences and Memorabilia from Germany; visits to a Schützenfest, Karneval, Christmas markets or training courses,
   shooting clubs, and other Vereine, Adventure Training (Gliding , Parachuting, Grape Picking)
   - Gymkhana and pony club camps or other summer entertainments; Scout and Girl Guide camps
   - Cricket matches! Polo or Rugby matches; Anglo-German sport events
   - Church Life in Germany
   - British family life in Germany, living in married quarters, shopping, moving, visits to West and East Berlin or to other places in
   Germany - Safaripark (soon to be Safari Land) Stuekenbrock.
   - Daily military life (e.g. pace sticks, swagger sticks, rules how to behave in an Officers’ /Sergeants'mess, rules or documents
   concerning parades or exercises, the under-car mirror to look for bombs), dress standards, haircuts.
   - Exercises and exercise damage; troops on farmyards and encounters with the local population and volunteer fire brigades
   - Soldiers who went to share Christmas with local families - Christmas events staged by British soldiers for deserving groups
   (Orphans, Children's Hospitals/Homes, Old Folks Homes)
   - Anglo-German events, friendships with Germans or German clubs
   - Amateur dramatic societies and the annual pantomime; British or Anglo-German choirs, Globe and Astra Cinemas
   - Maps (especially Facility Maps, maps of the British zone or garrison towns, exercise maps etc)
   - Booklets for British families explaining the history and the facilities in Germany/the areas and towns they are posted to, the
    customs and local by-laws, traffic regulation
   - Soldiers/families in German Hospitals
   - Documents relating to the evacuation of families in case of war
   - Anything concerning Soxmis and Brixmis in the public domain.


It is not important whether you have one or more photos/objects you might wish to share or if you just wish to tell a story - Bettina is more than grateful for any help and keen to listen..  
And Bettina is  very happy to answer any questions about the project or her career notes.

Please contact:
Initially through me (Pborn4)  when you want to share a contribution to the Story
Thank you very much!


Last edited by Pborn4 on 22/2/2019, 15:47; edited 2 times in total
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woodcarver
Private
Private


Number of posts : 1
Age : 80
Localisation : Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Blandford, Sennelager,Arborfield
Registration date : 2016-06-04

PostSubject: REME National Service BOAR   1/2/2019, 23:47

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1fUTbG5cXh65SerV9
REME Craftsman(Gun Fitter) National Service
Attached to 39 REGT RA. Dempsey  Barracks Sennelager 1960-62. Thought the Gunners may be interested in these shots!


Last edited by woodcarver on 5/2/2019, 06:07; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : added note)
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