BFG/BAOR/RAFG Locations

www.baor-locations.org
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log in  
Latest topics
» Entertaining the troops in Bad Harzburg
Yesterday at 08:54 by JPW

» SOXMIS STORIES
18/7/2017, 09:15 by Dee Z

» Krefeld Barracks - names
17/7/2017, 11:54 by steve

» Stuff Snow Queen----FRANSKI WAS MUCH BETTER
16/7/2017, 20:21 by Pborn4

» Polish Parachute Brigade and Armoured Division
16/7/2017, 20:04 by Pborn4

» Photobucket - Loss of Photo Links Posted on this site
11/7/2017, 22:41 by Dan M

» Bindon Bks
11/7/2017, 09:51 by happymrjames

» MONTY'S TURN MINDEN
10/7/2017, 12:38 by lofty's son

» Estetal-Naval Kaserne and the Town of Buxtehude
28/6/2017, 11:06 by steve

» Armed Forces Day.
26/6/2017, 12:26 by Johnwalker

» My photos of old comrades in 11 Sqn RCT
25/6/2017, 22:52 by Taphead

» The British Germans
25/6/2017, 21:34 by Taphead

» Messing about in Boats
25/6/2017, 20:50 by Taphead

» The Life Guards, 1945/6
25/6/2017, 18:40 by alan8376

» British Army Units over 65 years in Germany
21/6/2017, 11:06 by Pborn4

Navigation
 Portal
 Index
 Memberlist
 Profile
 FAQ
 Search
Who is online?
In total there are 48 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 48 Guests :: 1 Bot

None

Most users ever online was 144 on 31/12/2014, 23:57
July 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
     12
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930
31      
CalendarCalendar
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search

Share | 
 

 brigade shoulder flash

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
jackfo
Private
Private


Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2008-11-14

PostSubject: brigade shoulder flash   14/11/2008, 19:28

My brother served with 1 BW as part of 11 brigade in Minden in the mid 60s. Can anyone explain the insignia on the brigade shoulder flash to me? I Is there somewhere on the web that deals with UK brigade shoulder flashes? I am also curious about the 6 Brigade flash.

Thanks
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JAL
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 62
Age : 73
Localisation : York
Cap Badge : RASC & RAOC
Places Served : Bielefeld, Minden, Mannheim/Seckenheim
Registration date : 2007-07-13

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   14/11/2008, 19:55

I served in 11 Inf Bde in 1964/65 but I don't recall that we wore formation flashes. In fact, I thing that shoulder flashes generally were "out of fashion" then and worn by few in BAOR.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
soprano54
WOI
WOI
avatar

Number of posts : 157
Age : 59
Localisation : Gloucestershire
Cap Badge : RTR
Places Served : Fallingbostel, Tidworth, Paderborn, Cyprus, Bovington, Hemer, NI, Coltishall, Incirlik, Benson
Registration date : 2007-03-10

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   14/11/2008, 21:07

jackfo wrote:
My brother served with 1 BW as part of 11 brigade in Minden in the mid 60s. Can anyone explain the insignia on the brigade shoulder flash to me? I Is there somewhere on the web that deals with UK brigade shoulder flashes? I am also curious about the 6 Brigade flash.

Thanks

JAL wrote:
I served in 11 Inf Bde in 1964/65 but I don't recall that we wore formation flashes. In fact, I thing that shoulder flashes generally were "out of fashion" then and worn by few in BAOR.

Jackfo, as Jal said Bde flashes went out of fashion during the 60s and even the 70s and 80s but you'll be pleased to know they've made a comeback! Here is the one worn by the current 11 Light Bde:-



Click on the following link for info on Formation insignia, but these are from WW2 so you will see reference to 11 Armd Division and the above badge has just been passed down.

http://www.petergh.f2s.com/flashes.html

Click on this up to date one as well!

http://www.army.mod.uk/structure/divisions/default.aspx
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Wilf
Lt Col
Lt Col
avatar

Number of posts : 314
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   14/11/2008, 21:30

Interesting links soprano.

Jackfo, since the dates in question (mid 1960's) are a little before my time I resorted to wiki which says 11 Inf Bde was deactivated in 1958 and reformed in 2008. (Since you mention 1 BW I assume you are talking about 11 Inf Bde)

However, I'm no expert and wiki is only as good as the information people volunteer...you may have to research this one a little more deeply methinks.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JAL
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 62
Age : 73
Localisation : York
Cap Badge : RASC & RAOC
Places Served : Bielefeld, Minden, Mannheim/Seckenheim
Registration date : 2007-07-13

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   14/11/2008, 22:15

I don't who provides Wikipedia with it's info but it's definitely wrong about 11 Inf Bde. I joined 11 Bde in 1964 and left in early 1966. The BW were in Minden while I was there. It was part of 1 Div and changed at some later date to an Armoured Brigade.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
soprano54
WOI
WOI
avatar

Number of posts : 157
Age : 59
Localisation : Gloucestershire
Cap Badge : RTR
Places Served : Fallingbostel, Tidworth, Paderborn, Cyprus, Bovington, Hemer, NI, Coltishall, Incirlik, Benson
Registration date : 2007-03-10

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   14/11/2008, 22:27

Thier names will/have changed several times over the years ie 4 Armd Bde is now 4 Mech Bde but the insignia will remain the same!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Teabag
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
avatar

Number of posts : 960
Age : 67
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   15/11/2008, 00:14

During WW2 it was 11th Armoured Division.

http://www.kerynne.com/games/British11thArmouredDivision.html
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1024
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   15/11/2008, 20:30

I too was stationed in Minden in the mid 60s and confirm that 11 Infantry Brigade was based there including the Black Watch (other Regiments included the DERR and the Royal Warwickshire Regiment)

The Brigade flash was a gold Battle Axe on a Lincoln Green backing not the charging Bull of 11 Armoured Division. I agree that these badges were falling out of use through out the Army(coincidentally with the introduction of camouflage kit and green jerseys/ slacks as a working dress? the use of coloured vehicle tack signs( formation flash on one side and unit (number on a coloured background reflecting unit role)) also changed with a discrete white number/formation number on an olive green backing as replacement.

I believe 11 Infantry Brigade was retitled 22 Armoured Brigade in the late 70s


Last edited by JPW on 16/11/2008, 17:02; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
avatar

Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   16/11/2008, 05:00

The unit flash shown for 11 Inf Brigade is the same as the old (1950 era) for 11 Armoured Div .. we were their 'guests' in 1951/52 at Wentworth Barracks, Herford. We were the newly reformed 6 Armoured Division (White Mailed Fist on Black backround) as is now used by 20 Armoured Bde who use the same flash but on a Blue background. In 1952 HQ 6 Armoured Division was stationed at Birdwood Barracks, Bunde, in fact we were the first 'inhabitants' of the newly built camp. HQ 6 Armoured Div occupied the top end of the camp, HQ 6 Armoured Div Signals Regt occupied the lower half. I myself after a short stay at Div Sigs HQ, was posted to HQ 20 Armoured Brigade at Gremmendorf (York) Barracks in Munster, so you see the connection with the new boys of 20 Armoured Bde and us old boys.
Ciphers (Len Payne)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://lenpayne.com/Len_Payne/Jim_Chapman.html
jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
avatar

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   18/11/2008, 10:00

Ican confirm that the Gauntlet insignia was worn by members of 20 Bde in the early '70's. I still have one somewhere.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jackfo
Private
Private


Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2008-11-14

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   21/11/2008, 01:19

Thanks for all those replies

I think may be a little confused because, although my brother was with 1 BW in 11 Bde during the mid-60s, his army career spanned my schooldays and I may be remembering photos from various Regimental Journals or copies of Soldier ca 1968-73 when I was in the CCF. Dredging my memory, I seem to think the Bde insignia I am remembering may actually have been on the pre -DPM olive green combat dress of some Queen's Own Highlanders in recruiting materials ca 1970-72. Easy mistake to make! ( I was very keen).

Brigade flashes were definitely still being used on DPM combat jackets in the early 70s. I remember the mailed fist symbol for 20 Bde, the red eye on the blue shield for 4 Gds and of course a red jerboa on black for 7 Armd Bde, which I saw being sported by RGJ returned from Germany. 12 Mech Bde and 6 Armd Bde I think had, respectively, crossed keys and a quill crossed with (?) a scroll, although it may have been the other way round. The latter was I thought a curious choice for a military insignia and I often wondered what it's origin might have been.

The insignia I remember for 11 Infantry Bde looked like a pair of Gothic-looking 'seriffed' brackets back to back with a cross tie binding them at the narrowest point, which I thought might be an abstract heraldic version of the number eleven or even the letter 'E' (Imagine two 'E's back to back). I wonder now if perhaps this was due to my complete misunderstanding of a stylised battle axe symbol. I shall have to dig out my old scrap book. (Like I said, very keen).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
avatar

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   21/11/2008, 09:49

I certainly recall the crossed keys Jack, but not the scroll?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jerry
WOI
WOI
avatar

Number of posts : 186
Age : 76
Localisation : Abergele
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Dortmund/Hameln/ Malaya FARELF Marchwood Aldershot Yeovil
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   21/11/2008, 23:18



I think I got it right this time
Back to top Go down
View user profile
soprano54
WOI
WOI
avatar

Number of posts : 157
Age : 59
Localisation : Gloucestershire
Cap Badge : RTR
Places Served : Fallingbostel, Tidworth, Paderborn, Cyprus, Bovington, Hemer, NI, Coltishall, Incirlik, Benson
Registration date : 2007-03-10

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   22/11/2008, 16:23

jerry wrote:
I think I got it right this time

That's the old 6 Div flash, which has now been adopted by 20 Armd Bde but with a blue background!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jerry
WOI
WOI
avatar

Number of posts : 186
Age : 76
Localisation : Abergele
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Dortmund/Hameln/ Malaya FARELF Marchwood Aldershot Yeovil
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   22/11/2008, 21:48

this one didn't work eithert


Last edited by jerry on 22/11/2008, 22:25; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
soprano54
WOI
WOI
avatar

Number of posts : 157
Age : 59
Localisation : Gloucestershire
Cap Badge : RTR
Places Served : Fallingbostel, Tidworth, Paderborn, Cyprus, Bovington, Hemer, NI, Coltishall, Incirlik, Benson
Registration date : 2007-03-10

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   22/11/2008, 21:59

JPW wrote:
I too was stationed in Minden in the mid 60s and confirm that 11 Infantry Brigade was based there including the Black Watch (other Regiments included the DERR and the Royal Warwickshire Regiment)

The Brigade flash was a gold Battle Axe on a Lincoln Green backing not the charging Bull of 11 Armoured Division. I agree that these badges were falling out of use through out the Army(coincidentally with the introduction of camouflage kit and green jerseys/ slacks as a working dress? the use of coloured vehicle tack signs( formation flash on one side and unit (number on a coloured background reflecting unit role)) also changed with a discrete white number/formation number on an olive green backing as replacement.

I believe 11 Infantry Brigade was retitled 22 Armoured Brigade in the late 70s

The axe badge is now used by 102 Log Bde - see link!

http://www2.army.mod.uk/102brigade/index.htm

Used during WW2 by 78th Inf Div.


Last edited by soprano54 on 22/11/2008, 23:13; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jerry
WOI
WOI
avatar

Number of posts : 186
Age : 76
Localisation : Abergele
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Dortmund/Hameln/ Malaya FARELF Marchwood Aldershot Yeovil
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   22/11/2008, 22:32



this one
Back to top Go down
View user profile
soprano54
WOI
WOI
avatar

Number of posts : 157
Age : 59
Localisation : Gloucestershire
Cap Badge : RTR
Places Served : Fallingbostel, Tidworth, Paderborn, Cyprus, Bovington, Hemer, NI, Coltishall, Incirlik, Benson
Registration date : 2007-03-10

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   22/11/2008, 23:14

jerry wrote:
this one

Yep...........'The W8nking Spanner'! Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jackfo
Private
Private


Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2008-11-14

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   23/11/2008, 18:21

poco poco Only 5 more to go to make up the full Corps!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jackfo
Private
Private


Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2008-11-14

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   4/12/2008, 01:46

With the aid of a book list courtesy N.A.M. Chelsea , I have a clearer picture of the brigade shoulder flashes worn in BAOR c.1965-1974.

British Army Cloth Insignia 1940 to the Present (Davis 1985)
Army Badges & Insignia since 1945 (Rosignoli 1973)

No point dwelling on my fuddled mis-remembrances. At some point in that period these insignia were worn:

4th (Guards) Inf Bde. 'Ever Vigilant' eye (in white) & 'IV' on a blue shield bordered in red
6th Armd Bde. Key crossed with Bayonet (in white) below red '6', all on blue square
7th Armd Bde. Pink Jerboa on black square
11th Inf Bde. Yellow Battle Axe on ?black square
12th Mech Bde. Yellow 'Device' on a black shield, all on a yellow square
20th Armd Bde. White Gauntlet on blue square

Notes:

6 Brigade: The key, crossed with a bayonet, refers to 2nd Division, its parent formation during WWII - (insignia: the Crossed Keys of St Peter- ?association with York).

11 Brigade: The Battle Axe insignia was inherited from 78th Armoured Division.

12 Brigade: As for my original enquiry regarding for the abstract 'device', which I described pretty accurately above, (More accurately 2 Greek E's back to back) but ascribed erroneously to 11 Bde, I am none the wiser. The reference book offers no explanation or derivation . This may be why the new 12 Mechanised Brigade insignia is a black Ace of Spades, with a red 12 superimposed, on a red square.

20 Brigade. That's Wanking, China, right?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
avatar

Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   7/12/2008, 17:09

Poor old 6 Armoured Div .. long gone but well remembered, what a great outfit, and yes we were known as the Wanking Spanner Brigade or the Brothel Knockers .......

Len
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://lenpayne.com/Len_Payne/Jim_Chapman.html
Mikey
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 35
Localisation : North Yorkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : BAOR, Cyprus, Aden
Registration date : 2009-01-25

PostSubject: Brigade Flash   25/1/2009, 14:48

I served with 5 Inf Wshops REME in 56-57 and and our flash was Cross Keys on a Black Background, I remember it well as this was my first posting after basis training and I like many of my fellows were hoping for the the Desert Rat Insignia.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   25/1/2009, 15:20

Is this the one you mean, Mikey?



Paul.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jim
Let Gen
Let Gen
avatar

Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   26/1/2009, 12:37

I thought the cross keys was 2 Div?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ciphers
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
avatar

Number of posts : 961
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   27/1/2009, 16:38

In my days 1950's, Crossed Keys Div was the 2nd Infantry Div and was support infantry for 6 Armoured, 7 Armoured and 11 Armoured Divs as part of 1 Corps ..

Len
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://lenpayne.com/Len_Payne/Jim_Chapman.html
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: brigade shoulder flash   

Back to top Go down
 
brigade shoulder flash
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» brigade shoulder flash
» 6 Airmobile Brigade
» 27 Canadian Infantry Brigade Group
» 11 Brigade - Minden
» Brigade Signal Squadrons

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
BFG/BAOR/RAFG Locations :: General-
Jump to: