brigade shoulder flash

My brother served with 1 BW as part of 11 brigade in Minden in the mid 60s. Can anyone explain the insignia on the brigade shoulder flash to me? I Is there somewhere on the web that deals with UK brigade shoulder flashes? I am also curious about the 6 Brigade flash.

Thanks

I served in 11 Inf Bde in 1964/65 but I don't recall that we wore formation flashes. In fact, I thing that shoulder flashes generally were "out of fashion" then and worn by few in BAOR.

jackfo wrote:

My brother served with 1 BW as part of 11 brigade in Minden in the mid 60s. Can anyone explain the insignia on the brigade shoulder flash to me? I Is there somewhere on the web that deals with UK brigade shoulder flashes? I am also curious about the 6 Brigade flash.

Thanks

JAL wrote:

I served in 11 Inf Bde in 1964/65 but I don't recall that we wore formation flashes. In fact, I thing that shoulder flashes generally were "out of fashion" then and worn by few in BAOR.

Jackfo, as Jal said Bde flashes went out of fashion during the 60s and even the 70s and 80s but you'll be pleased to know they've made a comeback! Here is the one worn by the current 11 Light Bde:-



Click on the following link for info on Formation insignia, but these are from WW2 so you will see reference to 11 Armd Division and the above badge has just been passed down.

http://www.petergh.f2s.com/flashes.html

Click on this up to date one as well!

http://www.army.mod.uk/structure/divisions/default.aspx

Interesting links soprano.

Jackfo, since the dates in question (mid 1960's) are a little before my time I resorted to wiki which says 11 Inf Bde was deactivated in 1958 and reformed in 2008. (Since you mention 1 BW I assume you are talking about 11 Inf Bde)

However, I'm no expert and wiki is only as good as the information people volunteer...you may have to research this one a little more deeply methinks.

I don't who provides Wikipedia with it's info but it's definitely wrong about 11 Inf Bde. I joined 11 Bde in 1964 and left in early 1966. The BW were in Minden while I was there. It was part of 1 Div and changed at some later date to an Armoured Brigade.

Thier names will/have changed several times over the years ie 4 Armd Bde is now 4 Mech Bde but the insignia will remain the same!

During WW2 it was 11th Armoured Division.

http://www.kerynne.com/games/British11thArmouredDivision.html

I too was stationed in Minden in the mid 60s and confirm that 11 Infantry Brigade was based there including the Black Watch (other Regiments included the DERR and the Royal Warwickshire Regiment)

The Brigade flash was a gold Battle Axe on a Lincoln Green backing not the charging Bull of 11 Armoured Division. I agree that these badges were falling out of use through out the Army(coincidentally with the introduction of camouflage kit and green jerseys/ slacks as a working dress? the use of coloured vehicle tack signs( formation flash on one side and unit (number on a coloured background reflecting unit role)) also changed with a discrete white number/formation number on an olive green backing as replacement.

I believe 11 Infantry Brigade was retitled 22 Armoured Brigade in the late 70s

The unit flash shown for 11 Inf Brigade is the same as the old (1950 era) for 11 Armoured Div .. we were their 'guests' in 1951/52 at Wentworth Barracks, Herford. We were the newly reformed 6 Armoured Division (White Mailed Fist on Black backround) as is now used by 20 Armoured Bde who use the same flash but on a Blue background. In 1952 HQ 6 Armoured Division was stationed at Birdwood Barracks, Bunde, in fact we were the first 'inhabitants' of the newly built camp. HQ 6 Armoured Div occupied the top end of the camp, HQ 6 Armoured Div Signals Regt occupied the lower half. I myself after a short stay at Div Sigs HQ, was posted to HQ 20 Armoured Brigade at Gremmendorf (York) Barracks in Munster, so you see the connection with the new boys of 20 Armoured Bde and us old boys.
Ciphers (Len Payne)

Ican confirm that the Gauntlet insignia was worn by members of 20 Bde in the early '70's. I still have one somewhere.

Thanks for all those replies

I think may be a little confused because, although my brother was with 1 BW in 11 Bde during the mid-60s, his army career spanned my schooldays and I may be remembering photos from various Regimental Journals or copies of Soldier ca 1968-73 when I was in the CCF. Dredging my memory, I seem to think the Bde insignia I am remembering may actually have been on the pre -DPM olive green combat dress of some Queen's Own Highlanders in recruiting materials ca 1970-72. Easy mistake to make! ( I was very keen).

Brigade flashes were definitely still being used on DPM combat jackets in the early 70s. I remember the mailed fist symbol for 20 Bde, the red eye on the blue shield for 4 Gds and of course a red jerboa on black for 7 Armd Bde, which I saw being sported by RGJ returned from Germany. 12 Mech Bde and 6 Armd Bde I think had, respectively, crossed keys and a quill crossed with (?) a scroll, although it may have been the other way round. The latter was I thought a curious choice for a military insignia and I often wondered what it's origin might have been.

The insignia I remember for 11 Infantry Bde looked like a pair of Gothic-looking 'seriffed' brackets back to back with a cross tie binding them at the narrowest point, which I thought might be an abstract heraldic version of the number eleven or even the letter 'E' (Imagine two 'E's back to back). I wonder now if perhaps this was due to my complete misunderstanding of a stylised battle axe symbol. I shall have to dig out my old scrap book. (Like I said, very keen).

I certainly recall the crossed keys Jack, but not the scroll?

I think I got it right this time

jerry wrote:

I think I got it right this time

That's the old 6 Div flash, which has now been adopted by 20 Armd Bde but with a blue background!

this one didn't work eithert

JPW wrote:

I too was stationed in Minden in the mid 60s and confirm that 11 Infantry Brigade was based there including the Black Watch (other Regiments included the DERR and the Royal Warwickshire Regiment)

The Brigade flash was a gold Battle Axe on a Lincoln Green backing not the charging Bull of 11 Armoured Division. I agree that these badges were falling out of use through out the Army(coincidentally with the introduction of camouflage kit and green jerseys/ slacks as a working dress? the use of coloured vehicle tack signs( formation flash on one side and unit (number on a coloured background reflecting unit role)) also changed with a discrete white number/formation number on an olive green backing as replacement.

I believe 11 Infantry Brigade was retitled 22 Armoured Brigade in the late 70s

The axe badge is now used by 102 Log Bde - see link!

http://www2.army.mod.uk/102brigade/index.htm

Used during WW2 by 78th Inf Div.

this one

jerry wrote:

this one

Yep...........'The W8nking Spanner'!

poco poco Only 5 more to go to make up the full Corps!

With the aid of a book list courtesy N.A.M. Chelsea , I have a clearer picture of the brigade shoulder flashes worn in BAOR c.1965-1974.

British Army Cloth Insignia 1940 to the Present (Davis 1985)
Army Badges & Insignia since 1945 (Rosignoli 1973)

No point dwelling on my fuddled mis-remembrances. At some point in that period these insignia were worn:

4th (Guards) Inf Bde. 'Ever Vigilant' eye (in white) & 'IV' on a blue shield bordered in red
6th Armd Bde. Key crossed with Bayonet (in white) below red '6', all on blue square
7th Armd Bde. Pink Jerboa on black square
11th Inf Bde. Yellow Battle Axe on ?black square
12th Mech Bde. Yellow 'Device' on a black shield, all on a yellow square
20th Armd Bde. White Gauntlet on blue square

Notes:

6 Brigade: The key, crossed with a bayonet, refers to 2nd Division, its parent formation during WWII - (insignia: the Crossed Keys of St Peter- ?association with York).

11 Brigade: The Battle Axe insignia was inherited from 78th Armoured Division.

12 Brigade: As for my original enquiry regarding for the abstract 'device', which I described pretty accurately above, (More accurately 2 Greek E's back to back) but ascribed erroneously to 11 Bde, I am none the wiser. The reference book offers no explanation or derivation . This may be why the new 12 Mechanised Brigade insignia is a black Ace of Spades, with a red 12 superimposed, on a red square.

20 Brigade. That's Wanking, China, right?

Poor old 6 Armoured Div .. long gone but well remembered, what a great outfit, and yes we were known as the Wanking Spanner Brigade or the Brothel Knockers .......

Len

I served with 5 Inf Wshops REME in 56-57 and and our flash was Cross Keys on a Black Background, I remember it well as this was my first posting after basis training and I like many of my fellows were hoping for the the Desert Rat Insignia.

Is this the one you mean, Mikey?



Paul.

I thought the cross keys was 2 Div?

In my days 1950's, Crossed Keys Div was the 2nd Infantry Div and was support infantry for 6 Armoured, 7 Armoured and 11 Armoured Divs as part of 1 Corps ..

Len