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 Calling our Canadian experts please!

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Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Calling our Canadian experts please!   2/2/2010, 19:31

Can anyone tell me where The Stormont Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders ended up immediately prior to, and at the end of WW2 please.

I believe that there were 3 Battalions, one of which (3rd) served in the Occupation of Germany for a little under a year. Were the other 2 Battalions both involved in the Occupation, or where they sent home?

Paul.
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Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   2/2/2010, 23:55

SD&G all so known as Sand Dust & Gravel were a militia unit. That was made up of volunteers initially from Brockville, Prescott, Cornwall area Stormont Dundas & Glengarry is a united county in Southern Ontario. The Brockville Rifles who spent their WW 2 days in Jamiaca, I believe recruited a company for the SD&G ( Brockville is my home town ). The SD&G are presenty a Reserve Unit in Cornwall Ontario.
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1028
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   3/2/2010, 20:40

Paul
As you know I am engaged in a detailed study on the Canadian Forces in Germany on behalf of this site

The history of the SD&G is typical of the many militia units (the equivalent of the UK TA) some of whom can trace their origins back to the pioneering days of early Canada in the 18th Century. Canada has never had a large standing army but relied for the defence of the homeland on small locally formed recruited and trained volunteer units of various military capabilites, who in times of national emergency could be mobilised for full time service. The Canadian Constitution prevented them being deployed overseas unless the individual soldiers specifically volunteered.

At outbreak of war in 1939 the Canadian Militia was mobilised and volunteers for service overseas were called for. These units (retaining their traditional titles) were then formed into conventional Brigades and Divisions and after some further basic traing set sail for Britain in late 1939. The 1st Bn SD&G were part of the 9th (Highland) Brigade of the Canadian 3rd Infantry Division. They landed on the Normandy on D Day June 1944 and fought there way across Europe.

In late April I945 the Division as part of the Canadian 2nd Corps, having liberated Northern Holland, crossed into Germany in the area of Lingen with the objective of destroying all surviving German Forces between them and the North Sea Coast within the boundaries of the Ems and Weser Rivers, 9 Brigade including the 1st SD&G were south and just outside the port and naval base of Emden when the Germans finally surrendered.

It had been a firm Canadian Government policy that the volunteer soldiers of the Canadian Army should return to their homeland as soon as possible and should not form part of any Occupational Force in North West Europe. The majority of the war veterans therefore left Germany in late May 1945 and returned to Canada in July 1945

Subsequently the Canadian Government did agree to provide one Division (compared to the wartime 5) for a short period (July 1945-March 1946). 3rd Division was selected to provide the framwork of the new organisation and retitled Canadian Army Occupation Force (CAOF) and its Brigades renumbered 2/7, 2/8 and 2/9. Similarly the Infantry Battalions involved were renumbered either 3rd or 4th Battalion to distinguish them from the wartime 1st Battalions.

I have yet to discover the area 2/9 Brigade were responsible for in the CAOF era though I do have firm authoritive leads for 2/7 and 2/9 Brigades

Ist Bn Highland Light Infantry of Canada and 1st Bn The North Nova Scotia Highlanders were the other Infantry units in the wartime 9 Brigade, similarly they formed 3rd Bns for 2/9 Brigade
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TonyE
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Number of posts : 112
Age : 85
Localisation : Woodbridge Suffolk
Cap Badge : RASC & RCASC,later CF Logistics Branch
Places Served : Hannover, Bielefeld, Camp Borden, Camp Petawawa, CFB Kingston, Korea, Soest, Cyprus, Lahr.
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   4/2/2010, 22:49

JPW.
Experts for that period are a bit thin on the grouned,but I can give you one hard fact,my S/sgt in Soest had been a member of the North Novies and he said that they were stationed in Varel Lower Saxony.While stationed in Lahr I lived out in one of the villages and got to know the local police chief,his home town was Varel and he remembers the North Novies being there.

One of the earlier threads dealt with the Danish occupation force and I believe there is more info on the Canadians there,I remember queries on the whereabouts of Maple Leaf and Crerar Barracks. Not much but all the little bits will help
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1028
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   6/2/2010, 17:58

Tony
Many thanks for your comments, as the advert says "every little helps"

By shear chance I have found the war diaries of 1st Bn The Black Watch of Canada on the internet at the same time as your posting. 2 Canadian Infantry Division clearly captured the town in the last hours of the war. 1 BW of C took up residence in the town in late May and must have been replaced by 3 North Nova Scotia Highlanders in July 45. Clearly one of the Battalions renamed the German Friesland Kaserne Caledonia Barracks, all I have to do now is find out which one!!
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Stephen Lock
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Number of posts : 937
Age : 63
Localisation : Calgary
Cap Badge : Pads Brat
Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   6/2/2010, 20:01

Off hand, I would say it was probably the 3 North Nova Scotia Highlanders who would have renamed the Kaserne as Caledonia Barracks.

I reach this conclusion quite simply: "Caledonia" is another name/term for "Nova Scotia", the Canadian Maritime province from whence the 3 North hailed.

Of course, the Black Watch -- being a "Highland" regiment with Scottish links -- could also have done so but the connection between anything Nova Scotian and Caledonian is more direct, hence my assumption.

"Caledonia" is almost something of a pet name, if you will, for anything connected with Nova Scotia. (New Scotland in Latin in case your Latin is a bit weak Smile )
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JPW
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Number of posts : 1028
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   6/2/2010, 21:02

Stephen

Thank you for these very logical thoughts, I shall await with interest what information ultimately comes from the Nova Scotia Highlanders archives
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JPW
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Let Gen


Number of posts : 1028
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   2/12/2014, 13:22

To confirm the earlier discussions it was indeed the 3rd Battalion of the North Nova Scotia Highlanders, part of 3rd Canadian Infantry Division (CAOF), who occupied and officially renamed Frieslan Kaserne Varel Caledonis Barracks in Autumn 1945.
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Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   3/12/2014, 04:29

I'll have to agree with your decision JPW. I had a Sgt. in the RC Signals school in Vimy Barracks in Kingston 1962 who served in the North Nova Scotia Highlanders, but I believe Sgt. Black has probably gone to a well earned reward. I last heard of him being the gardener for the Prison for Women in Kingston in 85. If I remember correctly he would refer to his old unit as the North Novies.
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JPW
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Let Gen


Number of posts : 1028
Age : 76
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   7/12/2014, 15:32

Hardrations

This appears to be one of the few occasions when a Canadian unit, as opposed to British or Formation Headquarters, actually bothered to apply for and was subsequently granted permission to rename their Barracks with a Canadian theme (War Diaries of the North Novies refer). I have found no other example despite the lists I have publicised elsewhere on this site where Canadian unit actually used the supposedly authorised name (by HQ BAOR) but I suspect there were many unauthorised and unrecorded local names in use. The reluctance of the Canadian Scottish (from Vancouver Island, the North Shore Regiment from New Brunswick and the Regiment de la Chaudiere from the rival City of Quebec,to use the phrase Montreal Barracks is obvious.
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Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Calling our Canadian experts please!   7/12/2014, 17:52

Well JP, as you know in Deinlinghofen we had Fort Prince of Wales and Fort McLeod. Known as Camp Eins (Fort McLeod) and Camp Zwei (Fort Prince of Wales), Fort Qu'applle was always called Wilkmen Kaserne by the Germans, but Fort Beausajouer I never heard it referred to it by it's German name.

Please excuse my German and French spelling. (The beautiful Elfriede was busy making lunch, so couldn't bother her for a proper German spelling) The French, ahh well it's Canada.
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