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 Combats in the mid to late 80's

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Just a number
LCpl
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Registration date : 2013-09-11

PostSubject: Combats in the mid to late 80's   11/9/2013, 13:42

This is definitely an anorak type of question, but here I go...

In looking through pictures of BAOR in the mid to late 80s it seems that name tapes were not typically worn for infantry types. I can understand the "family" feeling this might be indicative of but more curiously there seems to be little to no rank being worn either. Was this a security thing or is it just that I'm looking at the wrong pictures? I've heard here and there that TRFs and name tapes were not worn for security reasons due to rotating through NI or alternately that TRFs in particular were just not in fashion at the time but that doesn't really explain lack of rank for ORs and NCOs. Can someone shed some light?
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brum
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Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   11/9/2013, 17:59

Wasn't it about that time that badges of rank were worn on a single epaulette, in the centre of the chest ? An idea copied from our Canadian cousins I believe.
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Nige P
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Registration date : 2010-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   11/9/2013, 20:50

When I joined the TA in 84, badges of rank were still worn on the sleeve of the combat jacket. That lasted up to the mid 90's for the regulars at least. TA had to join the long clothing queue for CS95. Us loggies never got it until 2000. It was the advent of CS95 and early trials versions that saw the rank badges move from slides on the epaullettes for officers and olive green rank patches on the sleeve for ORs to the universal rank slide on the chest on combat clothing. However, some 'ally' ORs had epaullettes made up with their rank badges.

I cannot remember TRFs on combats until the advent of CS95, although name tapes were quite common on 80's combats.

Nige
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LCpl
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   12/9/2013, 13:09

Yes I'm thinking this is well before the S95 move to center chest. Well back in time I used to have a written directive that troops not wear or cover identifying items when they were working near the border but it's long gone and I've never been able to find it since.
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   13/9/2013, 08:34

I agree with the comments that name tags were ordered to be removed from all military dress following experience in the early years of OP Banner and the opposition yelling "XXX, we're gonna get you"
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   13/9/2013, 20:57

I remember asking the OC why we no longer wore the 1 Div flash on our sleeve, he said 'security' (End of conversation) That may or may not have been the case, personally I think some civvy type in MoD procurement, obviously an expert in his field... considered regimental/brigade/Div insignia too expensive and decided it should be scrapped regardless of the effect it may have on the people who proudly wore that insignia. I'm willing to bet he collected a nice little bonus for his brilliant money saving idea!


Last edited by Wilf on 14/9/2013, 01:27; edited 1 time in total
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Nige P
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Number of posts : 35
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Localisation : Erdington, Birmingham
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Places Served : Grantham, Long Marston, Bicester, Marchwood and most rail served depots with the TA in BAOR
Registration date : 2010-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   13/9/2013, 22:20

Being TA and never going on Op Banner, name tags were common. However, I can see the logic of taking them off for that Op.

Going a bit off track but this new MTP (PCS - Personal Clothing System) you 2 velcro patches. One for left sleeve with Bde Flash and Union Flag and another for right sleeve with TRF on. Each set of clothing comes with these patches. Cue much 'tactical' velcro ripping sounds when changing jackets because the MoD only pay for the badges on one, if you want all sets done you have to purchase the badges.

Still got my 80's combats in the loft. Don't quite fit now:cry: 

Nige
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   14/9/2013, 01:14

Quality of combats changed dramatically during the early 1980's. Previously they were robust enough to get through the average exercise, after about 1983/84 combats became little more than a uniform for guard duty, they would press well only because they were so thin. I'm not suggesting the kit I was issued with in the 1970's was from Gieves & Hawkes, but it was a damned sight better than the kit issued after early/mid 1980's.
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
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Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   14/9/2013, 18:14

JPW wrote:
I agree with the comments that name tags were ordered to be removed from all military dress following experience in the early years of OP Banner and the opposition yelling "XXX, we're gonna get you"
We of the Battle Dress generation used to sneer at the Yanks for wearing name tags. Looking at a bloke in BD you could see immediately what his regt was, his trade, his rank and what div/bde he belonged to.
Obviously such insignia could not be worn on combats, in fact I can't even remember us wearing name tags on anything other than coveralls. DPM issue coincided with our first NI tour and by then wearing name tags would've defeated the object of wearing camouflage. We even sprayed our cap badges black.
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   15/9/2013, 05:58

brum wrote:
[quote="JPW" We even sprayed our cap badges black.

You must have had a lot of time on your hands, we dipped ours in Paint, Black, Matt.Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes 
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   15/9/2013, 07:38

Only wore name tags at training establishments.. Noticed that some of the BD insignia are beginning to appear on SD.
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   15/9/2013, 10:28

If my memory is correct first camouflage combat kit for NI issued in 1971 was the same quality as all green but with white/khaki full size chevrons…right hand sleeve no name tags by 1977 same combats with small black on green chevrons and a sprayed black cap badge…never wore insignia on the all green or later camouflage combats and never on No 2s…left mid 1981
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   15/9/2013, 10:44

Only wore tapes and trade badges on No2s up until 70. don't know what happened after that
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brum
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Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   15/9/2013, 12:43

I can't even remember us wearing trade badges on No2 dress. Perhaps it's me age. I remember the smaller rank badges were well received though.
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   15/9/2013, 13:17

Aye.. The wee tapes were a ok
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ciphers
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Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   15/9/2013, 18:12

'wot's No2's, I thought that was when you went to .. Oh! never mind ... we only had BD's and denims.

Len (Ciphers)
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   16/9/2013, 14:00

I can very much understand the "security" reason for no nametapes or other badges near the IGD in the late 80's but no one has really explained the no rank directive. I would love to find that little bit of paper again if someone has it hidden away.
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Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   16/9/2013, 17:14

The only guys that I know who didn't display badges of rank were the Hereford boys.
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brum
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
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Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   16/9/2013, 18:06

Nie Pravda !

We, (they) wore normal badges of rank.
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   17/9/2013, 13:07

It may very well be that I'm confusing the no name tapes and TRFs directive with a non-existent no rank directive.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2990
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Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   17/9/2013, 13:30

What was the question again?scratch scratch 
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PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   17/9/2013, 14:21

In looking through pictures of BAOR in the mid to late 80s it seems that name tapes were not typically worn for infantry types. I can understand the "family" feeling this might be indicative of but more curiously there seems to be little to no rank being worn either. Was this a security thing or is it just that I'm looking at the wrong pictures? I've heard here and there that TRFs and name tapes were not worn for security reasons due to rotating through NI or alternately that TRFs in particular were just not in fashion at the time but that doesn't really explain lack of rank for ORs and NCOs. Can someone shed some light?
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brum
FM
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Number of posts : 2808
Age : 76
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   17/9/2013, 15:06

MTP
TRF
IGD
WTF ? Sad 
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2990
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   17/9/2013, 15:38

Gordon. wrote:
In looking through pictures of BAOR in the mid to late 80s it seems that name tapes were not typically worn for infantry types. I can understand the "family" feeling this might be indicative of but more curiously there seems to be little to no rank being worn either. Was this a security thing or is it just that I'm looking at the wrong pictures? I've heard here and there that TRFs and name tapes were not worn for security reasons due to rotating through NI or alternately that TRFs in particular were just not in fashion at the time but that doesn't really explain lack of rank for ORs and NCOs. Can someone shed some light?

Of course, silly me.   'fraid I can't be of any assistance old bean.
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Shelldrake
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Number of posts : 2990
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Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Combats in the mid to late 80's   17/9/2013, 15:41

brum wrote:
MTP
TRF
IGD
WTF ?     Sad 


Have you had a look at this website, may be of assistance:-


http://www.chatslang.com/


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