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 Leicester Barracks

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Paul
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PostSubject: Leicester Barracks   6/2/2009, 10:49

The link on the page has been repaired. although it is in German, it is quite easy to get the gist of quite a few pages. It is too big to use a reasonable translation programme.

Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   27/7/2010, 18:17

We have discussed the origins of the name Leicester Barracks which must go back to the very early days of BAOR from time to time on this forum.

I believe we can now discount the Leicestershire Regiment and 153 (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment as possible sources

121 (Leicestershire) Light Anti Aircraft Regiment RA (who were definitely in Kiel in May 45 but may have moved elsewhere subsequently) remain a possiblity

The 7th Hussara were the Regular Cavalry Regiment who recruited in Leicestershire prior to 1939 but they ended the war in Italy but did not arrive in BAOR till much later

Any leads much appreciated

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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   28/7/2010, 18:38

Am 11. Mai 1945 rückte in das Kasernement das 23. britische Husarenregiment (11. Armoured Division, 8. Corps) ein. Die Marine-Kaserne erhielt den Namen „Leicester Barracks“. Dem Husarenregiment folgte 1946 ein schottisches Fallschirmregiment,
das seinerseits 1947 von einem englischen Feldregiment abgelöst
wurde.

From the translation looks like the 23 Hussars named the place Leicester Barracks (but believe this happened later) do not know who the Scottish Para Regiment were but sure the Field Regiment was former Guards Division (thanks for the research JPW) 153 (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA – Leicester Barracks Husum returning after the peace keeping duties in Aachen renamed 22 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA Feb 47 to 2nd Infantry Division Oxford Barracks Münster Sep 48 to Northumberland Barracks Menden Jan 49
Cheers
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   29/7/2010, 19:12

Steve

Thanks for this information, missed the detail in Paul PS original link on the Husum page of the Locations section.

Further research is clearly required

The 23rd Hussars, a hostilities only Regiment formed from cadres of the 10th and 15/19 Hussars were one of the first British Regiments to be stationed in the town but they clearly regarded the North Riding of Yorkshire as their UK home (There was an excellent website now sadly disappeared that gave much useful info on the Regiment).

The Scottish Parachute Battalion must have been 5th Battalion Parachute Regiment who arived in Spring 1948, were renumbered 3 PARA in July 48 and departed for Hildesheim shortly afterwards being replaced by units of the Norwegian Tyksland Brigade.

Information also indicates that it the forerunners of the future 22 Air Defence Regiment RA (not a Field Regiment) who were also based in the town for a time. Not sure that 153 moved back north from Aachen as many Yeomanry Regiments were disbanded in Summer 46 prior to reappearing as UK based TA Regiments from 1947 onwards.
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   29/7/2010, 22:13

JPW

This is a VERY difficult subject as the RA had so many units at the end of WW2 and believe the information on the formation of 22 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA from 153 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA to be incorrect

Have now found a list on the of all RA units up to 1947 from two different sources on the www and the only 153 listed is the former Guards Division 153 (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA and remember the German records do have do a Field Regiment recorded in 1947

http://british-army-units1945on.co.uk/22ndRegimentRA.aspx

Some of this entry must be correct the detail is VERY clear just should be 153 Field not Light Anti-Aircraft

Awaiting a RA historian to confirm

Regards
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   30/7/2010, 19:33

Steve

Thank you for your comments

The German article is a good starter for ten but there are ommissions
ie The Royal Scots Greys were definitely based in the town in early 46 (replacing the 23 Hussars?)
There was definitely an RAF presence (the airfield was going to be developed as the airhead for the British 2 Parachute Brigade based in Schleswig Holstein in Summer 48 but the project was cancelled when they left for the Hannover area
Similarly absolutely nothing on the Royal Navy, as indicated there was a significant Kriegsmarine presence prior to the Surrender in May 45, as I have indicated elsewhere on the site, I have yet to discover details of an Operation Eclipse presence

Finally am suspicious of the title 153 LAA Regt in the excellent site you linked to which many of us have used as a reference/contributed to. Have found a book in the Aldershot Military Library which claims to give details of all Gunner Formations/Units/Batteries in WW2 but found no details of a 153 LAA Regiment

Will continue this discussion with you direct off line Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   31/7/2010, 09:34

I agree with you...as per my previous

"Believe the information on the formation of 22 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA from 153 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA to be incorrect have now found a list on the of all RA units up to 1947 from two different sources on the www and the only 153 listed is the former Guards Division 153 (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA"

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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   31/7/2010, 21:27

Hello again Steve,

This is all way above my head but this website seems pretty definite on this subject !

brum

www.22oca.org.uk/germany.html

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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   1/8/2010, 10:47

Hi Brum
Yes but the formation detail could be wrong as 153 Light Anti-Aircraft Regt RA is not listed pre Apr 47 only 153 Field Regiment RA (who were part of the Guards Division who moved into the area May 46 disbanding May 47) the RA was huge in WW2 and had so many units disbanded or renamed Apr 47 it is very difficult to follow and JPW and myself have found numerous errors on the www that get copied on to other websites we are looking at unit histories, war diaries and journals written at the time to try and get May 45 to Feb 49 corrected where required
Regards
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   1/8/2010, 14:00

Thanks for that Steve and good luck with your search !

brum
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   1/8/2010, 15:20

steve wrote:

study "History is a mystery and only as good as those to wrote it down"

Or only what the victors want you to know, as it tends to be the winners of a war that write the history.
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   1/8/2010, 15:26

steve wrote:
I agree with you...as per my previous

"Believe the information on the formation of 22 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA from 153 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA to be incorrect have now found a list on the of all RA units up to 1947 from two different sources on the www and the only 153 listed is the former Guards Division 153 (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA"

Cheers
Steve

Well Steve it is correct in as much as at the time of the RA renumbering in 1947 it was 153 Light Anti-Aircraft Regt in Husum that renumbered to 22 Regt. I got that information from the unit records at Kew, so I am not relying solely on information found online.

You also have to bear in mind that prior to this renumbering each branch of the RA used its own numbering system. Therefore it would have been possible for there to have been a 153 Field Regt and a 153 LAA Regt. Not to mention Med, Heavy, Anti-Tank, Observation, HAA etc.... 153 Field was probably an entirely different Regt to 153 LAA.

Cheers/Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   1/8/2010, 15:38

Mike
Here are the lists which appear very comprehensive and cannot find 153 LAA Regt!
http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/page3.html
http://www.arrse.co.uk/gunners/106211-how-many-bty-s-there-royal-artillery.html - scroll down the messages
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   1/8/2010, 20:05

steve wrote:
Mike
Here are the lists which appear very comprehensive and cannot find 153 LAA Regt!
http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/page3.html
http://www.arrse.co.uk/gunners/106211-how-many-bty-s-there-royal-artillery.html - scroll down the messages
Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve. I'm not disputing that you can't find any reference online to a 153 LAA Regt. I was just pointing out that information in 22 LAA Regts records state that they were renumbered from 153 LAA Regt in 1947. Unfortunately I don't have any information prior to 1947 because I decided to start my investigations of RA Regts from the renumbering.

The problem with the very high numbered Regts is that they were formed during the war generally from TA units and most disbanded soon after the war so there tend to be very few records if any. I'll have another dig and see if I can resolve this mystery via the battery numbers rather than the Regt's.

Cheers/Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   1/8/2010, 22:19

Mike
Thought I was giving you the information with the links
Regards
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   13/4/2011, 18:46

Hit the jackpot today and found the War Diaries of 153 (Leicestershire Yeomanry) in the National Archives at Kew

This confirms that the Regiment did return north with the Guards Division in March 1946 to Husum where they were to remain till disbandment later that same year. They must therefore be the originators of the name Leicester Barracks. Next tricky question is whether any of the earlier inhabitants named the Barracks (have found evidence that Regiments did change Barrack names frequently in the early days, possibly as a means of marking out their patch.

Watch this space whilst Steve and I try to sort out the Regular Gunner Regimentss who were to follow
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   14/4/2011, 14:49

Thanks JPW confirms my thoughts

Thought I would do a 8th Corps District Schleswig-Holstein run down of the story so far with another hunch to add to your notes

May 45 – 8th Corps – HQ Marine Barracks Plön formed 8th Corps District Jun 45 and were responsible for the state of Schleswig-Holstein and from late 45 12th Corps responsibilities of Hansastadt Hamburg disbanded Apr 46 forming Hamburg District – HQ Blankensee Hamburg

May 45 – 11th Armoured Division responsible for the Schleswig-Holstein area north of Kiel Canal – HQ unknown disbanded Jan 46

May 45 – 15th (Scottish) Infantry Division responsible for the Schleswig-Holstein area south of the Kiel Canal and east of Hamburg – HQ Hammoor to Schwerin Jun 45 to Schloss Ahrensburg disbanded Apr 46

May 45 – Schleswig-Holstein was commanded by Guards Division Connaught Barracks Plön from Apr 46 taking over from 11th Armoured Division and 15th (Scottish) Infantry Division on disbandment

Apr 46 – 4th Armoured Brigade taking over from 29th Armoured Brigade on disbandment – HQ Schleswig Rathaus (Town Hall) to Rotenburg Jun 47 disbanded Mar 48A

Believe that both Guards Division and 4th Armoured Brigade could have been under command 1st Corps District – HQ Aldershot Barracks Iserlohn until Apr 47 only Kew will have the confirmation

Apr 47 – Schleswig-Holstein Sub Area formed from Guards Division – HQ Connaught Barracks Plön to Cavalry Barracks Schleswig Feb 48 disbanded Sep 48

Feb 48 – 2nd Independent Parachute Brigade from UK – HQ Cavalry Barracks Schleswig assumed command of Schleswig-Holstein Sub Area renamed 16th Parachute Brigade Jul 48 to London Barracks Hannover Sep 48

Marine Kaserne later Leicester Barracks Husum
23rd Hussars from 29th Armoured Brigade disbanded Feb 46
Feb 46 – 153 (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA from Brand Kaserne Aachen to Leicester Barracks Husum to UK and disbanded Mar 46
Mar 46 – Royal Scots Greys (2nd Dragoons) 4th Armoured Brigade from 31st Armoured Brigade to Munster Apr 46 to Wyvern Barracks Lüneburg Jun 46 to 7th Armoured Brigade Jun 47
1946 – *22 Regiment RA forms as a training regiment – Leicester Barracks Husum renamed 22 Light Regiment RA Apr 47 to 2nd Infantry Division Oxford Barracks Münster Sep 48
Feb 48 – 5 Parachute Regiment renamed 2 Parachute Regiment until Sep 48

*21 Regiment RA formed at Hendon Barracks Holtenau Kiel same time this detail came from the Kiel Journal Feb 47 and Kiel was then in the 4th Armoured Brigade area last year the bidding went very high on eBay for two dozen or so Kiel Journals did anybody here buy them the infomation therin would very useful to JPW's and my research of those early days of BAOR

Cheers
Steve study


Last edited by steve on 9/4/2012, 14:38; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   14/4/2011, 16:44

Steve

Thanks for your latest summary

Minor correction to the History of the Husum Barracks (I studied both the diaries of the GREYS and 153 Field Regiment yesterday).

The Greys came north from Lintorf to take over from the 23rd Hussars but stayed less than 6 weeks the Leicestershire Yeomanry then took over.

A probable explanation for the quick turnround was that the GREYS were still at War Establishment complete with Tanks and were part of the Brigade that formed the BAOR Quick Reaction Force. The 23rd Hussars had handed in their tanks and were responsible for IS Duties in the north west corner of the British Zone. 153 Field Regiment had similarly handed in the majority of their 25 pounders/Sextons and were operating in the IS role

Your timeline should be
22 January SCOTS GREYS arrive from Lintfort
31 January 23rd Hussars depart on disbandment
31 March 153 (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA arrive from Brand Barracks Aachen
1 April SCOTS GREYS depart for Luftwaffe Kaserne Munster (future Loddenheide Complex)
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   14/4/2011, 19:04

Great stuff JPW we can now get the Husum page correct
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   12/3/2012, 18:13

Extract from story of B Squadron, 23rd Hussars:

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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   13/3/2012, 16:52

grimmy

Some fascinating snippets here

Area G must have been the massive German POW cage where all German service personnel who were captured in the Hamburg area and throughout Denmark were moved to and held for a time. Area F was on the east coast of Schleswig Holstein and held German servicemen captured by the British 8 Corps in their advance north of the Elbe as well as those former members of the German Garrison of Norway.

Col Blacker was a Regular soldier and noted amateur who subsequently commanded the Skins and retired as a Major General

The Reference to 7 Armoured Division is a sarcastic one, units of that Division claimed that Husum was part of their area and they should occupy one of the best (undamaged) barracks in Schleswig Holstein. Needless to sa the 23rd Hussars refused to move, quite rightly claiming they were there first and it was part of the 11 Armoured Division patch.
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   13/3/2012, 17:50

Brigade HQ also had their eyes on Husum Barracks. 'Monkey' Blacker managed to persuade them that they were better off in Schleswig (Blacker could be very persuasive).
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   27/3/2012, 11:22

Marine Barracks, Husum, 1945. 23rd Hussars fitters. Dad on extreme left.

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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   27/3/2012, 11:52

grimmy wrote:
Marine Barracks, Husum, 1945. 23rd Hussars fitters. Dad on extreme left.


Look at that Fitter's wagon !

Nothing ever changes, does it ?
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PostSubject: Re: Leicester Barracks   27/3/2012, 16:56

Am currently on the outposts of the Raj in Ghurkha recruiting territory will post a siutable reposte to General Brums comments when Ireturn to the UK in a weeks time

The same half tracks were in use with 4 Guards Brigade in Munster 25 years later!!
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