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 Germany 1955 to 1957

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Norman
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 47
Age : 80
Localisation : East Yorkshire
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Farnborough, Aldershot, Sennelager, Hildesheim, Hannover.
Registration date : 2009-10-19

PostSubject: Germany 1955 to 1957   19/10/2009, 20:03

Hello everyone, my name is Norman Angell.
I discovered this website when I was trying to search for Tofrek Barracks, Hildesheim and Stirling House, Hannover. This is my first posting on the site.
After completing a driver training course at Elles Barracks, Farnborough, followed by a clerical course at Willems Barracks, Aldershot, I was posted to the RASC Training Wing at Sennelager in March 1955. After further training I was then posted to the Station Staff Office at Tofrek Barracks as an RASC clerk. The SSO was at one end of the airfield and I was accommodated with 54 Coy RASC who were transport support to 33 Lorried Infantry Brigade. Some weeks later I was then transferred to Headquarters Hannover District at Stirling House where I remained until my demob in July 1957. The District Commander during my time in Hannover was Brig. L. F. Heard. Later in 1955 I returned to Tofrek Barracks to complete a Junior NCO,s course and 54 Coy were still in
residence.
After demob I did a few years on the Regular Army Reserve and in 1971 I joined the Territorial Army with 150 (Northumbrian) Transport Regiment
RCT (V), who were based in Hull. I became Chief Clerk (V) in 1976 with RHQ and after 13 years with 150 I transferred to a sponsored TA regiment, namely 161 Ambulance Regiment RCT (V), who were based at Grantham. This was purely to reduce my TA commitment as I had been given a promotion at work. I remained with them for 5 years as a SSgt clerk with RHQ and then as Chief Clerk 260 Sqn. By a strange coincidence on my final TA camp in Germany we were joined by 54 Sqn RCT who were by then an anbulance squadron. I retired from the Army in March 1989.
During my time in the TA I visited Germany 13 times on Annual Camp as 150 Regt were front-line transport support to 4 Armd Div. During that time I visited Tofrek Barracks twice and passed Stirling House, on Hans Bockler Allee, on two or three occasions whilst we were on the move on exercise.
I last visited Stirling House while on holiday when I spent some time with my son who was with 21 Regt RE at Nienburg. At that time a block of flats were being built across the vehicle park. The barracks and HQ are now the headquarters of the Bundeswehr reserve army and the name Stirling House had been removed. Elsewhere on this website I discovered it had been renamed Kurt Schumacher Kaserne.
Of the lads at Hannover I can best remember Frank Fitzpatrick, Cpl John Benson, Sammy Doyle, Sgt John Kelly, Lcpl Johnny Lee, John Brown and Cpl Peter Gains. It would be great if any are able to contact me on this website.
Noch ein bier,
Norman.
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Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 64
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   19/10/2009, 22:10

Welcome Norman, we hope you visit often.

If I remember rightly, Willems Barracks was on the way out to Fleet/Church Crookham? If it is the same place, they built maisonettes on part of the site, supposedly stse of the art for insulation etc.

I think the artist must have been a caveman. It was the only quarter where the kids went to bed with more clothes than they wore during the day, where you had one space heater (as much us as.... I'll leave that one), and where you lay in bed and listened to the sound of dripping water - inside the flat off the windowsills.

And now - got any photographs (not that type Very Happy )

Paul.
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burgess720
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 122
Registration date : 2008-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   20/10/2009, 07:05

Hi Norman,

I was posted to Germany in 1951, and instead of going straight to a unit, went to a transit camp in Hannover, then posted to a unit a few days later.

I cant remember the location of this transit camp, it was either an old convent or a convent opposite or in the same street.

Do you or anyone else know the location and name / number of this camp.

I was in Royal Engineers but not sure of the whole camp were RE's?

Regards
Tony
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Norman
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 47
Age : 80
Localisation : East Yorkshire
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Farnborough, Aldershot, Sennelager, Hildesheim, Hannover.
Registration date : 2009-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   20/10/2009, 13:08

Hi Paul,
Willems Barracks was situated in the middle of Aldershot about 400 yards from the NAAFI club. The main road ran past the gates towards Farnborough to the north passing such RASC landmarks as Buller and Blenheim Barracks. Fleet was to the west of Aldershot. I never took a photo of the place as I did not own a camera at that time but my memories of it are very vivid as it was the worst camp I was ever in.
It was divided into Salamanca and Badajos Lines on the central road through the camp and the billets were three-storey, very leaky and draughty with a solitary pot bellied stove in the middle of the room to keep about 24-26 men warm. It was dingy and poorly-lit with balconies like fire escapes and I was there during the winter of 54-55. I have never been in prison but that dump must have been very close to it and every time I hear Johnny Cash singing 'San Quentin' I think of Willems. I don't know what the married pads were like but from what you said they seem to have been on a par with the rest of the place.
It was built in 1855-56 as a cavalry barracks and the stables etc were converted into classrooms for training purposes on the top floors, while the ground floors were used as various stores. The place was demolished in 1964 and the site is now under a private housing estate and a Tesco supermarket. Best place for it I say.
Noch ein Bier,
Norman.
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Norman
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 47
Age : 80
Localisation : East Yorkshire
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Farnborough, Aldershot, Sennelager, Hildesheim, Hannover.
Registration date : 2009-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   20/10/2009, 14:22

Hello Tony,
I was in Hannover four years after you were and as far as I know there was no RE unit in Hannover other that the BFPO unit based in Stirling House. When I went there in 55 there were, to withinthe best of my knowledge, only four other units based within the city boundaries and these were; BMH Hannover, 4 Armd Wksps REME, 80 Supply Depot RAOC and a Royal Signals detachment based at Bemerode, not too far from Stirling House. I do remember that in 1955 when the Bundeskrauts were first established some barracks in Hannover had been handed back to the Germans to accommodate all the new recruits they were getting. Perhaps your RE barrcks was one of those.
We did have a small transit wing at Stirling House, in the top floor of the block that I lived in. It was mainly used by Yank truckers who used it as a stop-over point on their way back to the American Zone on their return from their port-of-entry point in Bremerhaven. It was also used regularly by infantry units under the command of HQ Hannover District who used to provide the guards for the Berlin train. This train left Hannover Bahnhof every night at 2300 hrs so it could cross into East Germany at Helmstedt precisely at midnight. It would then move 100 yards or so before picking up the Russian train guards. These were NOT under the command of HQ Hannover District !!

Noch ein bier,

Norman.
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burgess720
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 122
Registration date : 2008-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   20/10/2009, 23:49

Hi Norman,

Thanks for your reply.

The guard detail for the Berlin train I remember was some of the "transit" lads there at that time.

Stirling House, was this close to the city centre? What street was it in? I do remember it was not far to walk to get to some very smart shops.

They may not have all been RE's there in my time, and I cant remember how many there were of us. Some or all of us want on a march [stroll] into the countryside, there could not have been more than 50 or 60 of us from memory.

Big problem after all these years, is you can only remember bits.

Regards
Tony
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Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 64
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   20/10/2009, 23:55

burgess720 wrote:
Hi Norman,

Thanks for your reply.

The guard detail for the Berlin train I remember was some of the "transit" lads there at that time......Big problem after all these years, is you can only remember bits.

Regards
Tony

Ahhh Tony - but is it the good bits bounce

Paul.
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Norman
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 47
Age : 80
Localisation : East Yorkshire
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Farnborough, Aldershot, Sennelager, Hildesheim, Hannover.
Registration date : 2009-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   21/10/2009, 22:03

Hi Tony,
Stirling House was on Hans Bockler Allee, which in turn ran on to
Marien Strasse before turning left into Georg Strasse and on past the Opera House to Bahnhof Strasse. It was perhaps one mile from the city centre and about another half mile to the Messe, Hannover's big inland lake. Going the other way up Hans Bockler a village called Kleefeld was about half a mile away and it was almost surrounded by woods. That could have been the countryside you mentioned, some of us used it for training runs in the summer months.
The Messe Schnellweg was a major road before Kleefeld which took you to Hildesheim to the south and to the north it went past the Stadt Halle and on to BMH Hannover.
When I last visited Hannover about fiteen years ago it had changed very much. It now has an overhead railway system, the Bahnhof Strasse has an underground shopping centre and half of Hans Bockler is an underground strassenbahn tunnel which comes to ground level somewhere before Stirling House.
Hope this is of interest to you.
Noch ein bier,
Norman.
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burgess720
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 122
Registration date : 2008-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   21/10/2009, 22:22

Hi Norman,

Many thanks, I now feel this was the place I was, prior to posting to RE unit in Osnabruck.
I am still puzzled why I was not posted directly from UK to Osnabruck; I do remember looking at a notice board each day for the posting. I travelled alone by train from Hannover to Osnabruck, and was met by our duty driver, who took me to get a late meal. So I must have left Hannover mid afternoon, perhaps the posting only came through that morning.

Back to my earlier message, I now think the convent was in Hambourg, as the whoe unit drove there twice I think on exercises, our job was to weld charge boxes to the large river bridges. As a draughtsman I made some drawings to fabricate these demolition boxes before we left Osnabruck.
So in Hambourg we must have stayed in a barracks with other units.

Thanks
Regards
Tony
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Norman
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 47
Age : 80
Localisation : East Yorkshire
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Farnborough, Aldershot, Sennelager, Hildesheim, Hannover.
Registration date : 2009-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   21/10/2009, 22:44

Hi Tony,
I only got to Hamburg once and that was to play football against HQ Hamburg District. I forget the name of their barracks but it was east of Hamburg at a place right on the River Elbe called Blankenese. We got a train into Hamburg for a night on the Reeperbahn and the line kept to the bank of the river and passed the bombed U-boat pens. We got off at Altona
and went back by taxi. A pricy night out but very memorable.
Noch ein bier,
Norman.
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Stephen Lock
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
avatar

Number of posts : 937
Age : 63
Localisation : Calgary
Cap Badge : Pads Brat
Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   22/10/2009, 20:45

Ahhhh, the Reeperbahn.

As a 17year old attending Soest Senior High School (or perhaps it was when I was still in Hemer), we had a school trip, of all things, to Hamburg and the Reeperbahn. I can't imagine who dreamed that one up! LOL

Of course, we were all well aware of the 'reputation' of the Reeperbahn and several of us, since (again for some strange reason looking back as an adult!) we were given free rein to 'explore', took off to check the various clubs and such out.

My interest centred around clubs, landmarks, etc. that may have had something to do with the Beatles' time in Hamburg and in fact I do have a photograph of a club with a large mural featuring them, but whether it had anything to actually do with them, I don't know.

I also recall a small group of us in some dingy dive, having a beer and being hit upon by some of the....er....bar girls who tried to talk one of us into buying them a VERY expensive bottle of Asbach-Urault (which was probably more likely tinted water or apple juice). The one they targeted figured he'd just cut a fat pig in the ass, as it were, and was all gung-ho to follow through. The rest of us had to literally drag him out of there. The bouncers weren't pleased LOL

We were only up there for a day, thankfully, and while memorable one can only wander around on the streets for so long before becoming thoroughly bored. Plus it was damp and chilly, so I was quite thankful when it came time to return to the warmth and coziness of the tour bus and head home. I'd had enough of the infamous Reeperbahn.

I also remember, tucked down some alley, was a large establishment, I forget the name off hand, but it was supposedly (and likely was) a huge sexporium/brothel. None of us had the guts (or the time/money) to go in! Good thing...we were all 16 and 17 years old....
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arbor
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 29
Registration date : 2009-10-10

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   22/10/2009, 21:35

the large establishment,stephen, sounds like it could have been the famous davids wache (the police station ) probably just as well
arbor
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Stephen Lock
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 937
Age : 63
Localisation : Calgary
Cap Badge : Pads Brat
Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   22/10/2009, 23:52

ehehehe...now wouldn't that have been interesting LOL.

But, no, it had signs all over the outside that clearly indicated it was some sort of 'establishment.' Sexa or something...a sort of 'chain store' of large professionally-run houses. Not that I am any sort of expert on such things LOL. And I certainly wasn't at 17!
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donald
WOI
WOI


Number of posts : 156
Age : 88
Cap Badge : 1st The Royal Dragoons - The Blues and Royals (RHG/D)
Places Served : UK,BOAR,Egypt
Registration date : 2008-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   23/10/2009, 15:24

Ah,the Reeperbahn,the second "zeroing" of weapons location when we were on the Hohne ranges.Now let this guy be nameless,I was his SSM at the time when he came back to our tented camp at Hohne and told me his adventures.
He told me he had gone to a very "posh"knocking shop,and had palled up with this luscious blonde,after a couple of bottles of plonk at DM200.o a bottle she had invited him up to her flat.In his words "she took off her top - boy - what a sight,she then dropped the rest and I realized "she" was a "he""-never moved so fast in my life getting out of there,I even left the fee on the bedside table"
------
Don
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PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   23/10/2009, 15:29

Sounds very much like"Bugis Street," Singapore Very Happy
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Locator
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts : 45
Age : 73
Localisation : Stamford, Lincs
Cap Badge : RA
Places Served : Munsterlager, Dortmund, Bergen-Hohne, Larkhill, Celle, as well as NI (x4), Canada, Paris and Catterick
Registration date : 2008-08-15

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   24/10/2009, 09:09

As I recall, the building referred to was the Eros Centre.
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PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   24/10/2009, 16:50

Stephen Lock wrote:
Ahhhh, the Reeperbahn.

As a 17year old attending Soest Senior High School (or perhaps it was when I was still in Hemer), we had a school trip, of all things, to Hamburg and the Reeperbahn. I can't imagine who dreamed that one up! LOL

Of course, we were all well aware of the 'reputation' of the Reeperbahn and several of us, since (again for some strange reason looking back as an adult!) we were given free rein to 'explore', took off to check the various clubs and such out.

My interest centred around clubs, landmarks, etc. that may have had something to do with the Beatles' time in Hamburg and in fact I do have a photograph of a club with a large mural featuring them, but whether it had anything to actually do with them, I don't know.

I also recall a small group of us in some dingy dive, having a beer and being hit upon by some of the....er....bar girls who tried to talk one of us into buying them a VERY expensive bottle of Asbach-Urault (which was probably more likely tinted water or apple juice). The one they targeted figured he'd just cut a fat pig in the ass, as it were, and was all gung-ho to follow through. The rest of us had to literally drag him out of there. The bouncers weren't pleased LOL

We were only up there for a day, thankfully, and while memorable one can only wander around on the streets for so long before becoming thoroughly bored. Plus it was damp and chilly, so I was quite thankful when it came time to return to the warmth and coziness of the tour bus and head home. I'd had enough of the infamous Reeperbahn.

I also remember, tucked down some alley, was a large establishment, I forget the name off hand, but it was supposedly (and likely was) a huge sexporium/brothel. None of us had the guts (or the time/money) to go in! Good thing...we were all 16 and 17 years old....
Strange that,I had a similar trip,but in the 80s with the teachers (male) from Edinburgh School. They called it a cultural trip. Some culture study
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Stephen Lock
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Number of posts : 937
Age : 63
Localisation : Calgary
Cap Badge : Pads Brat
Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   24/10/2009, 19:10

A cultural trip....yes, of course, uh-uh... LOL

Most of our school trips while we were stationed in Germany were; the trip to the Reeperbahn was an exception.

I remember a trip to Neuschwanstein. Incredible. Disembarking from the tour bus down in the village and looking up on the gleaming edifice of Neuschwanstein was almost a mystical experience -- which is exactly what King Ludwig had in mind, no doubt.

Since my parents were history buffs -- as was I -- I had some idea of the story behind this fairytale castle, but being Canadian kids most of us only knew it as the inspiration for the Disneyland Sleeping Beauty Castle. It worked either way.

Entering the courtyard was another memorable experience, the facade of The Palais glistening in the sun, the richly coloured friezes catching the light.

The only 'down' aspect of that visit was the interior of the castle, or the parts we were permitted access to, while still quite spectacular were virtually devoid of any furniture and quite bare, which I thought was kind of sad, actually. I'm sure when Ludwig II was in residence it was fantastic....decadent as all get out, but fantastic and in the true sense of the word (i.e. fantastical, fantasy-like).

The other school trip we took was to Austria, to a small village called Bieberwier, for a ski weekend. Two years in a row for that.

Here again, being 15 or 16 came into play for as soon as we got our rental skis and hit the slopes, and keep in mind none of us had ever skied before, we headed for the T-bar, got up to the top of the mountain and a few of us headed straight down, not slalom but a straight line down and in a crouch position to get some speed. I'm surprised none of us sustained serious injury and/or took out half the population!! Thing is, as I reached the bottom flat bit and had the ski rental and lodges looming up in front of me I realized I had no idea how to stop. I sat down LOL

There were a few other trips too, but perhaps I should start a different thread for those....
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Stephen Lock
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Number of posts : 937
Age : 63
Localisation : Calgary
Cap Badge : Pads Brat
Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   24/10/2009, 19:20

Locator wrote:
As I recall, the building referred to was the Eros Centre.

Yes! The Eros Centre...that was it! Duh...such an obvious name LOL How could I forget it?

Of course, I have no doubt you recall the name strictly from an observational point of view Twisted Evil
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Stephen Lock
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Number of posts : 937
Age : 63
Localisation : Calgary
Cap Badge : Pads Brat
Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   24/10/2009, 19:24

donald wrote:
Ah,the Reeperbahn,the second "zeroing" of weapons location when we were on the Hohne ranges.Now let this guy be nameless,I was his SSM at the time when he came back to our tented camp at Hohne and told me his adventures.
He told me he had gone to a very "posh"knocking shop,and had palled up with this luscious blonde,after a couple of bottles of plonk at DM200.o a bottle she had invited him up to her flat.In his words "she took off her top - boy - what a sight,she then dropped the rest and I realized "she" was a "he""-never moved so fast in my life getting out of there,I even left the fee on the bedside table"
------
Don

Eehehehehe....no doubt some of the 'working girls' were, in fact, transsexual, even back then. I suppose there was enough of a market for their services to make it worthwhile for them to be in the business, but gosh you'd think they'd forewarn a potential client -- if only for their own safety.

Some fellows would have reacted far more violently to such a surprise than your comrade there. At least if one knew what one was in fact getting into, a choice could be made. Either go with it all or not, whatever (to each their own!). False advertising is never a very good idea!
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nails
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Number of posts : 31
Registration date : 2012-11-23

PostSubject: Re: Germany 1955 to 1957   10/12/2012, 23:43

I was at 4 armd wksps Hannover at the back end of 1954 to end of 1955. We used to drink at "Willy Frankes" bar(spelling?) opposite the camp gates. It was the old Lichtmettal factory. (spelling again?) At that time, Louis Armstrong and Velma Middleton, did a show at the Aigi cinema in the town centre. The huge roundabout with the police in the centre in a huge sort of control tower. Quiet modern for its time. Also the area behind the railway station was out of bounds for us troops. Needless to say, that's where we spent most of our time. Hannover was a lovely place.
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