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recce83
Capt
Capt
recce83

Number of posts : 214
Age : 80
Localisation : Peachland British Columbia, Canada
Cap Badge : Black Watch of Canada
Places Served : 4 CIBG Soest and Werl 1957-1965, Camp Borden, Camp Gagetown
Registration date : 2009-06-04

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PostSubject: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime21/8/2011, 19:07

After 43 years, common sense has returned in large degree to the Canadian Armed Forces with the re-institution of the Royal Canadian Navy, The Canadian Army, and the Royal Canadian Air Force.

As many of you know, there was an extremely ill-advised and ill-planned unification of the three services in 1968 wherein the names were changed to Land, Sea, and Air Elements, later to Maritime Command, Land Forces Command, and Air Command.

Everyone, including sailors, wore a ridiculous green suit that I once heard some wag compare to an Aer Lingus flight crew uniform. Fortunately they replaced those in the 1980s with distinctive uniforms, only the army retaining the green.

This latest move will help re-establish our proud services to their rightful place and remove the blemishes created by the man who was arguably the worst defence minister in Canadian history, Paul Hellyer.

I'm raising a glass of single malt to the three services; I trust I'll have a lot of company.
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1100
Age : 78
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime21/8/2011, 19:46

Recce

Will happily join you in a Loyal Toast especially if it is a single malt
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Let Gen
Let Gen
Hardrations

Number of posts : 1043
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime21/8/2011, 19:53

recce83 wrote:
This latest move will help re-establish our proud services to their rightful place and remove the blemishes created by the man who was arguably the worst defence minister in Canadian history, Paul Hellyer.

I'm raising a glass of single malt to the three services; I trust I'll have a lot of company.

Didn't Paul Hellyer have a lip on because he was turfed out of RCAF pilot training because there was surplus of pilots by the time he got in and ended up in the Queens Own? Besides he was only toadding up to what King Pierre Trudeau wanted him to do, and that was to gut the Canadian Military. Remember King Pierre had no time for the military except to call it out for the FLQ crises and score political points.
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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime21/8/2011, 20:39

I`ll drink to that Recce.I have an open bottle of Talisker at hand..Who needs excuses Wink Embarassed


Last edited by Gordon. on 22/8/2011, 07:35; edited 1 time in total
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime21/8/2011, 21:41

recce83 wrote:
After 43 years, common sense has returned in large degree to the Canadian Armed Forces with the re-institution of the Royal Canadian Navy, The Canadian Army, and the Royal Canadian Air Force.

As many of you know, there was an extremely ill-advised and ill-planned unification of the three services in 1968 wherein the names were changed to Land, Sea, and Air Elements, later to Maritime Command, Land Forces Command, and Air Command.

Everyone, including sailors, wore a ridiculous green suit that I once heard some wag compare to an Aer Lingus flight crew uniform. Fortunately they replaced those in the 1980s with distinctive uniforms, only the army retaining the green.

This latest move will help re-establish our proud services to their rightful place and remove the blemishes created by the man who was arguably the worst defence minister in Canadian history, Paul Hellyer.

I'm raising a glass of single malt to the three services; I trust I'll have a lot of company.


Any sign of the Army reverting to the "proper" salute while this Wind of Change is blowing ?

(This peasant has to make do with Carlsberg and Famous Grouse chasers but raising a glass nonetheless !).

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Shelldrake
FM
FM
Shelldrake

Number of posts : 3027
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime22/8/2011, 08:19

I'll have a glass of Stella (in a Warsteiner glass, in their honour tonight). Wasn't Mrs Trudeau a member of the Rolling Stones at one time? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Let Gen
Let Gen
Hardrations

Number of posts : 1043
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime22/8/2011, 21:36

Shelldrake wrote:
I'll have a glass of Stella (in a Warsteiner glass, in their honour tonight). Wasn't Mrs Trudeau a member of the Rolling Stones at one time? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Don't think she was member but I think she had their members in hand though. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime22/8/2011, 22:15

Tut tut Embarassed
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recce83
Capt
Capt
recce83

Number of posts : 214
Age : 80
Localisation : Peachland British Columbia, Canada
Cap Badge : Black Watch of Canada
Places Served : 4 CIBG Soest and Werl 1957-1965, Camp Borden, Camp Gagetown
Registration date : 2009-06-04

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime22/8/2011, 23:34

Regarding the salute: yes, that was another part of the mess, along with naval Commanders, Captains and Admirals suddenly being Majors, Colonels and Generals. Also the non-commissioned ranks took a beating. For those who don't know the "pusser five" became the official salute for all 3 "elements". S/sgts became WOs, WO2s and WO1s became Master WOs and Chief WOs respectively and the L/cpl rank disappeared. At least they restored the navy ranks and gave officers their command curls back.
As a matter of fact, I'm preparing a letter to the Minister pointing out that a return to the old rank structure and army/RCAF salute would go a long way and would cost very little. Wish me luck.

As for PM Trudeau, aka "The King of the Hippies", yes, he was no friend of the military until he needed their help and protection during the Quebec crisis, and he certainly had a hand in the unification debacle. Still, it was Hellyer's idea, based on, as I recall reading it, his resentment over having to go through depot training again when he remustered from the army to RCAF. Don't know about the pilot thing.

And no, Margaret Trudeau never married a Rolling Stone; just cavorted with them.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime23/8/2011, 08:33

recce83 wrote:
Regarding the salute:

The French salute the same way as us don't they ? That would help to bring the old style back, I'd have thought.

And no, Margaret Trudeau never married a Rolling Stone; just cavorted with them.

Ah yes, you can't beat a good cavort ! Wink
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
Shelldrake

Number of posts : 3027
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime23/8/2011, 10:52

Cavorted? Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime23/8/2011, 11:26

Thought that was a dance
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mjm34
Maj
Maj
mjm34

Number of posts : 262
Age : 68
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime23/8/2011, 11:43

Gordon. wrote:
Thought that was a dance
It is - send 3 & 4pence cheers
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1100
Age : 78
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime23/8/2011, 16:05

7 Days Extras if I have got it wrong but I believe Pierre T's attitude to the Canadian Military was also affected by the fact that he was rejected by the Vingt Doos as an officer candidate whilst at University.
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Teabag
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
Teabag

Number of posts : 960
Age : 69
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime23/8/2011, 20:13

JPW wrote:
7 Days Extras if I have got it wrong but I believe Pierre T's attitude to the Canadian Military was also affected by the fact that he was rejected by the Vingt Doos as an officer candidate whilst at University.

Is that a curry or a serious medical complaint?
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime23/8/2011, 21:26

Teabag wrote:
[

Is that a curry or a serious medical complaint?

Y'know, I had a spell of that once.

One had to cough VERY carefully. Shocked
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1100
Age : 78
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 10:34

Teabag

Les Vingt Doos is the nickname for the Infantry Regiment exclusively recruited from French Canadians principally from the Province of Quebec. They have a reputation that, if provoked, makes the former Kings' Liverpool look like a bunch of Boy Scouts.
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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 11:24

The Kings' Liverpool were not boy scouts????? Surprised Laughing
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Shelldrake
FM
FM
Shelldrake

Number of posts : 3027
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 11:58

Skating on thin ice there, Gordon. Laughing Laughing
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 13:36

JPW wrote:
Teabag

Les Vingt Doos is the nickname for the Infantry Regiment exclusively recruited from French Canadians principally from the Province of Quebec. They have a reputation that, if provoked, makes the former Kings' Liverpool look like a bunch of Boy Scouts.

I am of the generation that was weaned on everything WW2.

I'd heard of the Royal 22nd and their reputation so when I heard that I was driving my Squadron Leader to the Van Doo's farewell bash in Nicosia, I was quite looking forward to it. (This was '69, we were UN troops).

A party from our squadron was also invited to the barbeque, along with many others from various contingents.

We were faced with an aggressive bunch who bombarded us with so-called entertainment delivered totally in French, (even though, I'm sure they spoke English), and made it clear that they believed Canada should be French.

When it was all over we headed back to the veh park but one of our number went adrift looking for the transport. When he asked a bunch of van doos for directions he was beaten up.

Not nice people. We were glad to see The Black Watch of Canada take over from them.
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brum
FM
FM


Number of posts : 2808
Age : 78
Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire
Cap Badge : RA/QOH
Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich
Registration date : 2010-03-02

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 14:13

Gordon. wrote:
The Kings' Liverpool were not boy scouts????? Surprised Laughing

Watch out . . . there's a Teabag about ! Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 15:44

Watching out Brum

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Teabag
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
Teabag

Number of posts : 960
Age : 69
Localisation : Merseyside
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Wildenrath Detmold
Registration date : 2008-10-30

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 16:04

brum wrote:
Gordon. wrote:
The Kings' Liverpool were not boy scouts????? Surprised Laughing

Watch out . . . there's a Teabag about ! Suspect

No I agree. No good being boy scouts during a war and they proved they weren't. As for Canada speaking French, they shouldn't have lost the war then (as usual).
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Stephen Lock
Maj Gen
Maj Gen
Stephen Lock

Number of posts : 937
Age : 65
Localisation : Calgary
Cap Badge : Pads Brat
Places Served : Father -- Canadian Army. Served Hemer, Soest, and Wetter
Registration date : 2007-12-28

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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 18:13

Was also pleased as punch the Canadian Armed Forces have reverted to their "proper" designations of Royal Canadian Air Force, Royal Canadian Navy and Canadian Army (not sure why it isn't "Royal Canadian Army"). Waaaaaaay over due!!!

Now if we can just get "Dominion Day" back instead of the generic, somewhat brand name sounding "Canada Day", the universe will have righted itself after all.

I like that we were once the proud Dominion of Canada (but then I liked the Red Ensign as our flag too, even though I understood then and understand now that it was not really "our" flag but rather was "borrowed" and adapted from a Navy Ensign).

I also remember when I was in college and one of my classes was Political Science. I raised a concern that, by an Act of Parliament the day before, we as Canadians were no longer "British subjects" but "Canadian citizens" (as it should be, of course). My issue was having my political identity, for better or worse, changed over night without my knowledge or input or "permission" (as by a vote perhaps). I went to bed as a "British subject" and woke up the next day as....something else. A bit disconcerting on that level although I quite agreed with the end result, I just didn't care for the process of getting there at all!!

But I digress.... (Stephen? digressing?? No! monkey )

My father was, under Hellyer's Fiasco, a WOII rather than a S/Sgt (or would it have been Sgt. Major?). He didn't care for it but grew into it, I suppose. He always loathed the uniform, however....said he didn't drive a damn bus!! Luckily, or by oversight perhaps, Dad's dress uniform didn't change. He was still able to wear his Blues (and looked damn smart in them too!), although some guys wore the green thing but with a white shirt and formal bow tie, which looked silly. Not sure how that worked where some could wear the 'old' formal dress uniform and others wore the new one....a bit odd.

it would be nice if the old salute was re-instated as well, but you have two or three generations of soldiers now that would need to be "retrained" in the salute, but then my Dad's generation learned the new one so I see no reason why this bunch can't learn the traditional one. We shall see, I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: Good news    Good news  Icon_minitime24/8/2011, 22:27

Talking of salutes....Why does the RN have a different salute from the Army or RAF??
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