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 BAOR in the 1940s

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steve
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PostSubject: BAOR in the 1940s   25/2/2010, 14:45

Have been trying to find the locations for 7 Armd Div Sig Regt from 1945 to 1947 for a Dutch chap who sent me his father’s service record who was posted to the 8 Corps District Signals in Jun 45 that could have been with the Corps HQ recorded in Connaught Barracks Plön but believed to be later Adams Barracks Hamburg on the disbandment of 8 Corps District became Hamburg District Sig Sqn Apr 46 and absorbed by 7 Armd Div Sig Regt in 1947

There was a posting to 7 Armd Div Sigs Oct 45 if with the Div HQ could have been Borgard Barracks Itzehoe moving out Jul 46…did the Div HQ then go to Sheil Barracks Verden or into Hamburg? The service records show he was in BMH Oldenburg and returned to the UK May 47 posted Y list

30 Corps District were responsible for the states of Hannover/Braunschweig/Oldenburg/Schaumburg-Lippe from 1 Nov 46 known as Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony) on disbandment Sep 46 had become Hannover District but stretched over a very wide area

From Jan 47 to Jun 47 the 7 Armd Div and Hannover District was part of 1 Corps District after finding out last year the Corps HQ was Aldershot Barracks Iserlohn have an interest in the units and locations during that time

Found so far 7 Armd Div disbanded late 1947 or early 1948 and its units became Hannover District commanded by Major-General George Philip Bradley Roberts the former commander 7 Armd Div…was the HQ in Sheil Barracks Verden or London Barracks Hannover…in Mar 49 Hannover District went back to being 7 Armd Div with HQ in Sheil Barracks and the Sig Regt in Caithness Barracks Verden

Hoping somebody out there can confirm

Best regards
Steve – interested in anything 1 Corps District May 45 to Jun 47 study
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Teabag
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   5/4/2010, 19:32

I have the book "The Royal Corps of Signals" Unit histories etc.

It states 7th Armd Div Signals 1939-1958. Actually became this unit in 1940 and obviously formed part of the desert rats. After various battles in the desert, Sicily, Italy and Normandy to the Baltic, it remained in Germany after the war.

With its Signal regiment at Verden It served as an Armd Div until 1958 when it was retitled as 5th Division and 5th Signal Regt.

That's about it really.

I can give you the authors email addy if you want to contact him. Lives in New Zealand. PM if you want it as I don't want to put it on the interweb.
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   6/4/2010, 11:10

One mo, Teabag, Verden at the end of the 60's into the 70's was BFPO32, which was 1 Div HQ and Signal Regt. I was posted there with the RE after rejoining the army for a further 3 years. Cant remember anything about 5 Div.

Big_Mike
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Teabag
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   6/4/2010, 11:42

I quote from the same book. " On the 30th of June 1960, 5th Division at Verden was retitled 1st Division and 5th Signal Regt became 1 Signal Regt". You are correct but as you can see, the period we are talking about was earlier than your time.

I was in Germany in the seventies and we had three divisions. 1, 2 and 4. The latter we in 20 Armd Bde were part of.

This book covers every signal unit that ever has been. Interesting especially to those of the anorak brigade. Very Happy
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   6/4/2010, 14:08

Teabag wrote:
I have the book "The Royal Corps of Signals" Unit histories etc.

It states 7th Armd Div Signals 1939-1958. Actually became this unit in 1940 and obviously formed part of the desert rats. After various battles in the desert, Sicily, Italy and Normandy to the Baltic, it remained in Germany after the war.

With its Signal regiment at Verden It served as an Armd Div until 1958 when it was retitled as 5th Division and 5th Signal Regt.

That's about it really.

I can give you the authors email addy if you want to contact him. Lives in New Zealand. PM if you want it as I don't want to put it on the interweb.

Have the book and I'm in touch with Cliff...a great start for research but loads of errors...probably lack of Google information when he wrote it!

Since my post in Feb have updated for 7 Armd Div…Mar 49 Hannover District went back to being 7 Armd Div with HQ in Sheil Barracks Verden and the Sig Regt in Celle later moving to Caithness Barracks Verden possibly 50/51 after 3 RHA moved out…see the Caithness Barracks BAOR Locations page

WW2 and up to 1946 Divisional/Brigades/Units just Signals was the term then became Regiments/Squadrons/Troops back then the regiments were at different locations to the Div HQ corrected later

Cheers
Steve - 1 Div Verden-Aller 67-69
http://royalsignalsbaor.blogspot.com
History is a Mystery and only good as those who wrote it down
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   6/4/2010, 17:27

Steve, if you saw Cathness Bks, Verden now you would be 'Gobsmacked', I will try to take some photos this summer. Maybe you lot can answer a question, "Is there any NAFFI in the world without any scalys"? Just a joke you lot, but you do seem to bump into a lot more of them than REME or the (reserved lot) RE!!!

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steve
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   6/4/2010, 18:04

Big_Mike wrote:
Steve, if you saw Cathness Bks, Verden now you would be 'Gobsmacked', I will try to take some photos this summer. Maybe you lot can answer a question, "Is there any NAFFI in the world without any scalys"? Just a joke you lot, but you do seem to bump into a lot more of them than REME or the (reserved lot) RE!!!

Big_Mike

Hi Mike
I've been there twice in the last few years and visited Sheil Barracks too...2nd time GONE! Pleased I took photos the first time...where do you live? I'm in Iserlohn!
Cheers
Steve a Scaly at Verden and RE at Iserlohn...it's a long story!
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   7/4/2010, 06:13

"Steve, if you saw Cathness Bks, Verden now you would be 'Gobsmacked'".

Regarding Caithness Bks in Verden. Have a look at these pics taken January 2010 by Derrick Palmer who served there with 7 Arm'd in the 1950's and now lives in Verden.

http://www.redcap70.net/Verden.html/
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steve
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   9/4/2010, 10:36

Think I have just found out the first British Army unit in Shiel Barracks Verden - HQ 51st (Highland) Infantry Division disbanded Aug 46 so then HQ 7 Armd Div must have taken over...source 5 Bn Camerons website they were in Cuxhaven after WW2 then later near Bremervorde...image of divisional sports at Verden...my guess named Shiel after Loch Shiel in the Highlands of Scotland...now working on Caithness Barracks...any ideas?
Cheers
Steve study
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JPW
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   9/4/2010, 14:26

Steve

How about the Seaforth Highlanders? Caithness in the far north of Scotland would have been part of their recruiting area
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   9/4/2010, 14:49

JPW
Looks good both 2 & 5 Bns were in 152 Inf Bde of 51 Inf Div at the end of WW2
Cheers
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   9/4/2010, 17:42

Loch Shiel is in Cameron Highlanders territory. Looks if 152 Brigade was definitely in the Verden area at the end of WW2
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   9/4/2010, 19:58

Also from the 51 Inf Div found units of 153 and 154 Brigades between Hamburg and Bremen...1 Bn Gordon Highlanders Zeven and 1 Bn Black Watch at Hesedorf (see Buxtehude page)...1 Gordons were due to go to Verden in Apr 46 but 153 Inf Bde then moved to 53 Inf Div on disbandment of 51 Div...1 Bn guess merged with 5 Bn Black Watch to Duisburg (see Buxtehude page)...1 Bn Gordons from Muna Barracks Zeven (we have a new location) to Meeanee Barracks Essen (see Essen page) and merged with 7 Bn Gordons
Cheers
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   9/4/2010, 22:47

Big_Mike wrote:
Steve, if you saw Cathness Bks, Verden now you would be 'Gobsmacked', I will try to take some photos this summer. Maybe you lot can answer a question, "Is there any NAFFI in the world without any scalys"? Just a joke you lot, but you do seem to bump into a lot more of them than REME or the (reserved lot) RE!!!

Big_Mike

We do seem to dominate web sites but I reckon it is just that a lot of us are trained to type and it is relatively easy for us to waffle on about most things.

BTW, what is this NAFFI thing you talk about? Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   9/4/2010, 22:51

More to the point, what's he on about anyway ??
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   10/4/2010, 17:05

brum wrote:
More to the point, what's he on about anyway ??

The fact that us Scaley's i.e. Royal Signals are everywhere on military websites. Well that was the way I interpreted it Brum?
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PostSubject: HQ 51st (Highland) Infantry Division   9/5/2010, 09:51

steve wrote:
Think I have just found out the first British Army unit in Shiel Barracks Verden - HQ 51st (Highland) Infantry Division disbanded Aug 46 so then HQ 7 Armd Div must have taken over...source 5 Bn Camerons website they were in Cuxhaven after WW2 then later near Bremervorde...image of divisional sports at Verden...my guess named Shiel after Loch Shiel in the Highlands of Scotland...now working on Caithness Barracks...any ideas?
Cheers
Steve study

Have just bought "30th Corps in Germany" published in 1946
Photobucket[url]
Photobucket[/url]
Shows the Corps and Div HQ locations so Sheil Barracks could have been HQ 152 Inf Bde not HQ 51 Inf Div!
Lots of information so now working on 30 Corps District units as 1 Corps District took over the area on disbandment of 30 Corps District Sep 46 and JPW is working on 8 Corps District so between us we should get this site updated any help will be appreciated to get the late 40s BAOR history together but only from May 45 onwards as the WW2 is a wealth of detail around but not so much written about the British Army of Occupation
Cheers
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   15/5/2010, 13:28

Will be shortly posting a new blog 'British Army of the Rhine 1945 to 1948' to piece together the British Army of Occupation and their movements and hope this will contributed to some of our missing history there will be a link from my British Army in Iserlohn blog
All the best
Steve
http://britisharmyiniserlohn.blogspot.com/
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   17/5/2010, 12:33

The is much written about WWII but little after until the build up of British Forces Germany after in Berlin Airlift and the start of the Cold War all WWII research on the internet seems to stop after May 1945 http://www.ordersofbattle.com/UnitIndex.aspx has been useful for wartime units and formations but stops at Aug 45 some time ago started my research on the British Army in Iserlohn 1945 to 1994 with help from BAOR Locations and ‘The British Army in Germany (BAOR and after) an Organizational History 1947-2004’ very useful but missing the first two years and some errors so my intention is to expand my research outside of Iserlohn

First the 1 Corps District area that took over 30 Corps District area in Sep 46 JPW has done a great job with 8 Corps District later Hamburg District so we hope to contribute to those missing years below is a scan of a 1945 BAOR Christmas card showing clearly 12 Corps that never formed a district believe the HQ was Hamburg until late 45 when final disbanded the HQ 2 Army lingered on to 1946 their HQ was Lüneburg then on disbandment 30 Corps District moved its HQ from Neinburg until disbandment Sep 46 when 1 Corps District took all of the British sector less Berlin and Hamburg District including Schleswig-Holstein when 1 Corps District disbanded Jun 47 each division (2 Inf – 5 Inf – 7 Armd) had a district each along with Hamburg and Hannover that came together in 1948 by then 5 Inf Div and 7 Armd Div had disbanded with units to Hannover District up to this point would like to record the movements around the British Sector

If anybody can assist with this research would be great what has been publish in later years is not always correct so what I have gone for is unit war diaries that continued into 1946 on peace keeping duties have found some unit journals on line and best of all a weekly newspaper an almost complete set for 45/46 so will be able to locate units around Iserlohn the 49 Inf Div area

Regards
Steve

[url]1945 BAOR Xmas Card[/url]
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PostSubject: 105th Reinforcement Group   2/6/2010, 13:34

105th Reinforcement Group – formed Easthampstead Park near Wokingham Mar 44 later Bruges command 1st Corps District by May 45
1945 – 28 x Reinforcement Holding Units by the end of 1946 down to 2
50 RHU – Ripon Barracks Bielefeld formed Bordon Mar 44
54 RHU – unknown
A RHU was the size of a regiment with Lt Col CO + RSM and holding units for personal from disbanded units and retraining for other units
Can anybody help with more info
Regards
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   2/6/2010, 14:46

I was Born in Hamburg in '48. My Dadd was with the King's Royal Rifles at the time, or was there a Kings Lancashire Regiment?
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   2/6/2010, 15:12

jim wrote:
I was Born in Hamburg in '48. My Dadd was with the King's Royal Rifles at the time, or was there a Kings Lancashire Regiment?

Jim
Not to good on the Hamburg area JPW should be able to help better but 2 Bn Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own) were in the area recorded and disbanded 11 Sept 48 and 1 Bn Lancashire Fusiliers were in Aldershot Barracks Iserlohn 53-66 sent a PM regarding the journal
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   2/6/2010, 16:35

"1 Bn Lancashire Fusiliers were in Aldershot Barracks Iserlohn 53-66"

and so was I Steve Smile
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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   2/6/2010, 19:19

Pads Brat then Jim? as I was at Hannover in 53 to 56

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PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   3/6/2010, 08:37

Jim

I think your father must have been capbadged Kings Royal Rifle Corps (nicknamed 60th Rifles)

Battalions of both the KRRC and Rifle Brigade ended the war in the Hamburg area but by 1948 the British Army had significantly reduced in size and the Hostilities only Battalions had been disbanded though some were to reform as TA units in the UK.

I agree with Steve your father could have been stationed at Buxtehude (BMH Hamburg provided medical support to a vast area). Alternatively he might have been Extra Regimentally Employed (ERE) and been posted to one of the military Headquarters in Hamburg
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