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 BAOR in the 1940s

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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj
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Number of posts : 753
Age : 68
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   25/3/2012, 15:20

Thanks to JPW for his continuing research and help from forum members we now have a revised ORBAT for 21st Army Group later BAOR in the 1940s with the command down to Brigade/Group with HQ locations when known

http://baor-locations.co.uk/Historyof21stArmyGroupandBAORMay45toFeb49.aspx

The task will continue to produce a page for each Corps/Division listing units under their command with locations when known those produced some time ago are very much out of date and the links have been withdrawn a new page for HQ 21st Army Group/2nd Army/BAOR support units will also be produced for the period May 45 to Feb 49 then the town/city pages can be updated with unit locations

For those readers who do not wish to join the forum but make a comment or ammendment please go to my draft blog

http://britisharmyingermany.blogspot.de/

Steve
study


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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   30/3/2012, 03:10

Interesting to see that a Canadian Battalion was involved initially in 45 in Berlin
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Hardrations
Let Gen
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1026
Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook)
Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places
Registration date : 2007-12-16

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   30/3/2012, 03:31

Just a small note from

Chapter XXIII
The Aftermatch of the German Surrender


Simultaneously another aspect of the problem came into view. During March Field-Marshal Montgomery's headquarters inquired whether the Canadians wished to be represented in the British portion of a proposed Allied garrison in Berlin. Again Crerar emphasized that this matter was "of political rather than of military significance". Lieut.General J. C. Murchie, Chief of the General Staff in Ottawa, replied at once that the Army should participate in the occupation of Berlin, "both on national grounds and to give Canadian troops satisfaction of having token detachment present at entry of enemy capital." By the end of the campaign, Headquarters First Canadian Army had prepared a detailed order of battle for an infantry brigade group to represent Canada in the garrison.39 This group, however, never reached Berlin. Protracted negotiations among the Allies, and the condition of the city, postponed the movement, and in mid-June the Canadian force was released from its assignment. A composite battalion was then formed from companies of representative units of the 1st, 2nd and 4th Canadian Divisions (The Loyal Edmonton Regiment, Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal and The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada). This unit, commanded by Lt: Col. A. F. Coffin of the Argylls, finally entered Berlin on 4 July. Under the command of Headquarters British Troops Berlin, it remained there until 27 July.



Last edited by Hardrations on 30/3/2012, 15:13; edited 1 time in total
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steve
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Number of posts : 753
Age : 68
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   30/3/2012, 07:45

Moin Hardrations
Thanks have the details on file and can confirm it was 1945 and will be on the British Troops Berlin page when put together thanks to JPW there will also be a page for 2nd Canadian Corps and 3rd Canadian Infantry Division CAOF formed after their disbandment
Cheers
Steve
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj
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Number of posts : 753
Age : 68
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   5/3/2013, 20:01

Came across this pamphlet some time ago and have just got round to converting it to a pdf file…instructions for the British Army posted to Germany in 1947…a very interesting read
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_WR3d8zGvgTMDl3NHdRbHY5RUk/edit?usp=sharing
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Dan M
WOI
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Number of posts : 108
Age : 61
Localisation : Mississauga
Cap Badge : The Royal Canadian Regiment
Places Served : 1977-80, London ON, Gagetown NB
Registration date : 2010-03-22

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   5/3/2013, 20:55

What a phenomenal little book. Thanks for posting it. I didn't know that the official American Zone of Occupation included a seaport in Northern Germany. Learn something new every day.

Oh, and one must never exchange one's 'baffs' for Marks and Pfennings. And no, Marks and Pfennings is not a department store in Hanover.

Cheers,
Dan.
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rucjock21
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Number of posts : 279
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Cap Badge : The Jocks
Places Served : Everywhere.
Registration date : 2012-09-25

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   5/3/2013, 23:54

Great little book.Thanks for the link Steve.I have saved it for future ref and conversation amongst my friends and family. Very Happy
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Shelldrake
FM
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Number of posts : 2989
Localisation : Camberley
Cap Badge : Royal Artillery
Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh
Registration date : 2010-10-26

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   6/3/2013, 08:21

Thanks for that Steve, very informative. I recall being issued with something similar when I arrived in BAOR in '64. I am reading a very good book at the moment, "Exorcising Hitler - the occupation and denazification of Germany", available from Amazon or if you're Scottish, like me, from your local library.
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj
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Number of posts : 753
Age : 68
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: BAOR in the 1940s   10/8/2013, 19:13

Help required regarding 4 Army Group Royal Artillery post May 45

JPW and myself are researching the British Army of Occupation from May 45 to Mar 49

AGRAs were brigade size and each of the Corps had one under command
1 Corps – 9 AGRA
8 Corps – 8 AGRA
12 Corps – 3 AGRA
30 Corps – 5 AGRA
2 Canadian Corps – 4 AGRA

Post May 45 each passed to an Infantry Division for occupation duties
9 AGRA – 3 Inf Div later 52 (Lowland) Inf Div disbanded Jan 46
8 AGRA – appears to the exception and remained under command 8 Corps District disbanded Oct 45
3 AGRA – 49 (West Riding) Inf Div disbanded Jul 46
5 AGRA – 43 (Wessex) Inf Div disbanded Apr 46
4 AGRA – 3 Canadian Inf Div CAOF later 52 (Lowland) Inf Div disbanded?

It appears when 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division moved north to take over from 3rd Canadian Infantry Division CAOF the division disbanded its HQRA (the last recorded location was Kaiser-Karls Bad in Bad Lippspringe) and took over 4 AGRA at Oldenburg May 46 in turn the division was disbanded Aug 46 replaced by 7th Armoured Division however their documentation at Kew do not record 4 AGRA

Two can be accounted for
3 Medium Regiment to Kingsway Barracks Rendsburg Mar 46 renamed 15 Medium Regt Apr 47
13 Medium Regiment
51 (Lowland) Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment
65 (Highland) Medium Regiment
68 (West Lancashire) Medium Regiment
79 (Scottish Horse) Medium Regiment disbanded Mar 46
356 Independent Searchlight Battery
400 Independent Searchlight Battery
4 Light Anti-Aircraft Searchlight Battery
4 Army Group Workshops REME

Can anybody help with the disbandment or movement details to assist myself and JPW in our research thanks in anticipation
Steve
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