Military Transport

The subject of MT kit seems to have been ignored, but it's a vast area and one worthy investigation. In detail, I can only recall the transport which was in use by 32 (Minden) LAA Bty RA, but 26 & 30 Btys, also part of 16 LAA Regt RA, would have had similar issue whilst stationed at Quebec Bks , Osnabruck until April 1956.

At the bottom, the Bty had 8 motorcycles. Two BSA M20 500cc SV,
one Matchless G3, & five G3L's, all 350cc OHV. Austin Champs were the 1/4 tonners, 1-tonners were also Austins. 3-ton GS wagons were Bedford QLs, tractors for the L60 Bristol Bofors were Fordson E4s. There was a single 15 cwt Bedford MWD, 4 x 2, which had been fitted for wireless (FFW), but the interior had been stripped out and the vehicle was used for line laying on schemes, or for dvr.trg. On its own, too, was a 3-ton Karrier 4 x4, a WW2 relic fitted with a winch, and used to carry BHQ tp. stores.

Maj.Nelson assumed command of the Bty. in early 1955, after previously being in Washington USA with a brief of testing US vehicles. It was logical to select 32 Bty when the German UNIMOG was matched in trials against the Fordson E4, to tow the new L70 Bofors gun. By all accounts the UNIMOG had good cross-country performance but, as tested, it was too small to to carry a guncrew and gun spares.

Similarly, later in 1955, 16 Regt was issued with a Triumph TRW
500cc sv. twin, motorcycle for field testing. Unfortunately for the Don R's in 32 Bty, RHQ kept their hands on this during the few months it was with the regt.

One non-standard vehicle in the regt. was their bus. The second- hand, German single-decker was purchased for recreational trips and to carry married families to the town NAAFI shop.

Cartav you have great memories and some of those vehicles you mentioned I have come across in my time.
My memories go back to Herford, newly arrived from AAS Harrogate in 1952. We had 3 Ton Bedford QL Wireless HF and signal office vehicles in 3 Squadron. We also had two of thos Humber box utility vehicles which we used for a VHF link, along side an Austin Champ. In fact this one was one of the original batch which had a Rolls-Royce engine. Later types were all fitted with the Austin B40 engine. This particular champ sported a 4 star plate, being the rover for C in Chief BAOR - General Sir Richard Gale.
Then in other Squadrons there were WOT 6 Fordson Battery charging vehicles, Leyland 10 ton Hippos and AECs as well. The motorbike we had was BSA M20 which I took my test on in '53. There were also some civilian type vehicles, notably VW Beetles and Opel Cadets a lot of them were driven by MSO drivers. Lastly, there was the Jeep. Some had winter mods with side panels and doors. Others were just bare and were bloody cold to drive.
One last thing I remember at that time was the WRAC drivers with brown boots and gaiters driving Opel Capitan staff cars up at BadOeynhausen.
Most of these vehicles had come to BAOR in 1944-5.
Wonder if any of them survived.

Jimsigs1

Interesting stuff Gents !

When I got to 24 Med Regt in '59 they had moved on to Bedford RL 3 tonners (later to be called 4 tonners !), Austin 1 tonners, one of which, in each battery, was used for line laying. The Champ was still with us but Jim, I think they all had Rolls Royce engines, ("B"-petrol "40"- number of cylinders.). We also had a Humber 1 ton, a bit like an oversized Champ with a lovely synchromesh gearbox. Ours was used for the rear link radio.

The vehicles were inclined to be unreliable in those days, we had to put MT 74 in them, red stuff, I'm sure it did the engines no good at all !

Our guns were pulled by Leyland 16 tonners. Weren't L70s towed by them ? There were also Leyland 10 tonners for ammo, etc. A relic from WW2 was a Matador that we had, generally used for POL.

I remember our REME used to have a vintage half-track too.

The Beetles were still in use but Hillman Huskies were coming in, then came the Mini !

Brum,

The initial engines were made by Rolls Royce. Thereafter, they were made by Austin.
This info comes from the very detailed article by John Mastrangelo on Google at :

http://www.austinchamp.com/03%20Register/extras/photogallery/History.htm

and reads as follows :

[b] B40 No 1 Mk 5A [UNF] Unit: The UNF engine was a simpler and cheaper engine designed by Rolls Royce. It came in two types, the Rolls Royce assembled unit and the Austin version. The first Champ with a UNF Rolls Royce engine, no 4069, was chassis WN1-1501 that entered service on 11 November 1952. Rolls Royce UNF engine numbers were 2909 [or 2969 ?] to 5891. The earliest engine I have come across is 3012 fitted to vehicle 92 BE 37, now scrapped.

Jimsigs1

The UNF designation on B40 engines indicated that all the fasteners (nuts and bolts) were Unified threads (UNF, UNC) as opposed to British Standard (BSF, BSC, BSW). Later changes in engineering led to metric become the standard thread.
Bob

Hi BobG,

Bit like my 1964 Triumph T90, that's all UNC fasteners and with 26 TPI

Jimsigs1

Sounds like those Champ engines might be the same thing, some built by Austin under license. For sure, I remember being told that Rolls Royce designed a new batch of engines of various capacity for the Army and they appear in Humber 1-tonners. Pigs, Saladins, Stalwarts etc..... REME opinion welcomed !

Something similar with the bikes in 32 Bty. The Matchless G3 was basically a prewar civvy model, girder forked and without the metal, engine de-compression plate fitted between cylinder & crankcase on the tele-forked G3L's. The G3 zipped along, but G3L's were the preferred mount of anyone who had a choice. Not so the BSA M20's. They were heavy, almost unbreakable no matter how they were treated, and always reserved for issue to Troop WO IIs on schemes.

Certainly Matadors were used by TA, at least, for towing the 40mm L70 which, with its better armour plate protection was heavier than 16 LAA Regt's 2-ton L60s., and this later kit also needed a separately towed generator (47 Kva???) to power it up. I don't know if the regt. was re-gunned when they moved to Bulford in 1956 but , in BAOR and after earlier Morris SP Bofors, they used the Fordson E4 tractor in Osnabruck from about 1953. The E4 was another compromise. It had a Canadian V8 engine, the cab was designed for a Commer civilian lorry and the whole was built at Dagenham.

Most know that Champs could run underwater, not sure how deep, but around 4 ft. max. I'd guess. The snorkel fitted beside the bonnet was lifted vertically, some REME attention was needed to grease up other bits before taking the plunge. Not so the driver, he got wet but minimised his discomfort by driving standing up. He had a hand throttle, the horn button was mounted on the dashboard and kept free of water by screwing on a cover cap. Apart from five forward & five reverse gears, there was another useful feature, one not generally known, but one used maliciously on things like escape & evasion exercises. On the corner of the bodywork, behind the rear seat, there was a junction box. By swapping two plugs over it was possible to switch on the ignition & activate the starter switch. Very convenient for anyone coming across a static Champ when they were tired of walking.

Remember a REME type grumbling that to remove the front propshaft from the diff box, you had to remove the front axle assy. This was due to the prop shaft was positioned through chassis cross members with a opening in the centre and therefore the propshaft had to be withdrawn through them. Judging by the one of the mod plates on the one we had in 1952/3, quite a few updates had been performed by virtue of the number of punch holes evident.

Jimsigs1

[quote="jimsigs1"]Brum,

The initial engines were made by Rolls Royce. Thereafter, they were made by Austin.
This info comes from the very detailed article by John Mastrangelo on Google at :

http://www.austinchamp.com/03%20Register/extras/photogallery/History.htm

and reads as follows :

[b] B40 No 1 Mk 5A [UNF] Unit: The UNF engine was a simpler and cheaper engine designed by Rolls Royce. It came in two types, the Rolls Royce assembled unit and the Austin version. The first Champ with a UNF Rolls Royce engine, no 4069, was chassis WN1-1501 that entered service on 11 November 1952. Rolls Royce UNF engine numbers were 2909 [or 2969 ?] to 5891. The earliest engine I have come across is 3012 fitted to vehicle 92 BE 37, now scrapped.

Jimsigs1

I bow before your greater knowledgeon this subject, Jim ! What a disappointment, we (drivers) were quite proud to be driving something with a R-R engine.
Austin, eh ? Well that would explain the number of breakdowns . . .

I wonder how the engine numbers equate to the veh registration ? I've photographed quite a few Champs at various Transport Festivals and the earliest of them are 05BF90 and 16BF64. Lovingly restored, I might add !

[quote="cartav"]Sounds like those Champ engines might be the same thing, some built by Austin under license. For sure, I remember being told that Rolls Royce designed a new batch of engines of various capacity for the Army and they appear in Humber 1-tonners. Pigs, Saladins, Stalwarts etc..... REME opinion welcomed !

Certainly Matadors were used by TA, at least, for towing the 40mm L70 which, with its better armour plate protection was heavier than 16 LAA Regt's 2-ton L60s., and this later kit also needed a separately towed generator (47 Kva???) to power it up. I don't know if the regt. was re-gunned when they moved to Bulford in 1956 but , in BAOR and after earlier Morris SP Bofors, they used the Fordson E4 tractor in Osnabruck from about 1953. The E4 was another compromise. It had a Canadian V8 engine, the cab was designed for a Commer civilian lorry and the whole was built at Dagenham.

I wonder if that was the 27.5 Kva gene you're thinking of Cartav ?

I don't recall seeing much of LAA units in the field, (must've had good cam, eh ?), but when we took over from 12 LAD in Belfast, we of the advance party commented that there seemed to be a lot more S/Sgts in the regt than usual. It turned out that the No1 qualified for a higher rank because he was responsible for the gene as well as his gun.

Could be Brum, I know there was a"7" in it ! And apart from being involved in an investigation when a Bdr. nearly lost his fingers whilst starting one up I kept well away from the smelly brute. Something to do with winding it up on the handle, banging the plugs in that brought compression back to the cylinders then, if it didn't fire up, first IA was to check the tension on the fan belt, ( or something like that), by pushing down on it between pulleys. Trouble this time was that it was still turning over slowly, the NCO's fingers were under the belt and were dragged over a pulley before it stopped turning.

It was the middle of the night, dark & everyone needed a sleep after being out on a four day exercise. Nasty, but his fingers were saved and he was found to have been careless, but blameless.

And, yes, staff sergeants were everywhere. The gun No.1 was a Sgt., the detachment commander added a crown to his sleeve. Before that, the only S/Sgts. we saw were all
BQMS. I don't know what the situation was when FCE7 came in. (Small radar that hooked up to the L70, pointed it & fired it............ sometimes & maybe ! )

After Note........ Well done Brum ! your memory better than mine ! Found a ref on the gene.......Meadows 27.5 Kva 3 phase 50/60 cycles, 415/208 volts.....
Come to think of it, S/Sgt probably came in after FCE7. Before that the L70 gun detachment did most of the grafting on the gene, numbers were only increased by a single engine attendant.

Your comments about the Fordsons were interesting. They were also used as Ambulances and Bin Trucks. The V8 engines were quiet and the cab was roomy and comfortable for the time. But they were underpowered I think and very slow, particularly with a trailer on behind.

I remember on schemes the incessant noise from the 27.5 KVA generators. You got used to it but the silence, when you could escape was remarkable

I remember attending a fire power demo at Larkhill in 1965. The 40/70 and FCE7 were supposed to engage a target being towed by a Meteor which was flying so slowly we thought it would fall out of the sky. The gun was pointing in one direction and the radar in another, they never did manage to get it right and engage the target - red faces all round especially the AIGs.
Bob

Any REME guys remember having to time the 'phases' on the Meadows 27.5 Gens when running a bank of them, so the Gens were out putting the same number of KVA each to prevent overloading.

Was it something to do a flasing light sequence with 'Lead and Lag'?

PS. No heaters in vehicles in those days!

alan8376 wrote:

Any REME guys remember having to time the 'phases' on the Meadows 27.5 Gens when running a bank of them, so the Gens were out putting the same number of KVA each to prevent overloading.

Was it something to do a flasing light sequence with 'Lead and Lag'?

PS. No heaters in vehicles in those days!

I've heard Techs speaking about this but have never seen it done. I recollect that the 27.5 in addition to the electrical starter motor, had an air starter,as well as a great starting handle.No excuse for not getting it stared.
While sleeping in the back of a Bedford one night ,some one started up the 27.5 that was hooked up behind the Bedford, with no earthing spikes connected. Above the noise of the generator , the bloke who was responsible for starting it up, heard a chorus of swearing coming from the back of the Bedford and quickly shut it down.I supposed it was quite safe , until someone attempted to step down off the truck.

I never came across a 27.5KVA with a Starter Motor!

The only methods of starting were:

1. Handle with decompressor ratchet engaged. Usually it kicked in on 5th or 7th revolution of starting handle

2. Air start. This involved air via a 2 stage air feed tilt handle

3. Explosive Cartridge. This method was also used on many RAF planes. The cartridge looked basically like a big shotgun cartridge without the lead pellets.

Thinking of distinctive noises, the Bedford QLs could be indentified by a whine from the transmission which could be heard from far in the distance. And any 40mm L60 unit would be readily picked up by Russian infiltrators at night, when the built-in bank of batteries was being topped up with the charging engine on the gun platform.

In N Ireland in 1972 we had five 27.5 KVA Gens in Gosford Castle to provide all elec power. 1 running during the daylight hours and three during the night with all the security lights on, the other two were on maint/standby. Yes we had to sync them, a job undertaken by the CE Tech in the Fitters Troop. No elec starters, as has been said only manual, air start - seldom worked or cartridge - which were not issued.
Bob

Quote..... Brum.

"I don't recall seeing much of LAA units in the field (must have had good cam, eh?)".

Thanks, Brum! But more likely because they were thinly spread. In the old L60 days, to protect something like a bridge , or another smallish feature, ( a VP...Vulnerable Point), one battery's guns ( 12.....?) were laid out on the ground in two circles around it. First was 600 yards in diameter, second was 2,600 yds dia. (Hope I've remembered these correctly!). Beyond that, another 3000 yds from the outer ring were the five OPs who reported approaching aircraft. One of them was me, with an Austin 1 tonner,( preferred to a Champ because I could kip in the cab ), a 19 set, two squaddies & a box of compo. The nearest any two guns were to each other, those in the inner ring, was about 200 yds at the least., Often even the OP subaltern couldn't find us, let alone passing medium gunners.

And cam for the vehicles was never the best....... the old, webbing- snagging type with hessian strips woven into the mesh. And often removed to make cleaning rags for mess tins or to keep dust out of SMGs.

anyone remember the old three ton bedfords , emptying the radiator every night and taking the rotor arm to the mt office, then filling the blinking things back up again next morning, ginger

Hi All,
Re my story relating to the Rolls-Royce Champ we had in Herford when I was there in 1952/3. I managed to dig out the photo with its driver at the time. He was one of our old timer Wireless Cpls who incidentally had been a Major in WWII with a Scottish Regt, but re-enlisted in the ranks of R Sigs. Cannot remember the Reg No of the Champ but there it is.
Jimsigs1

The mind boggles.....Why would a Major re enlist as an OR

There was always something fishy about 'Mac'. He arrive on the scene in our Troop as a Cpl and was quickly promoted Sgt and back down to Cpl again. One thing I did remember was that he liked his drink and always seemed to have the tell tale signs. Perhaps his story of WWII might not have been true. Or perhaps he wasn't offered a commission on re-enlistment.
Its an interesting tale and it all happened some 50 odd years ago.

Jimsigs1

We had a ex RN re-enlistmnet on our cipher course with the DSO by the name of Brookes, he was supposedly a Lt Commander during the war .. if memory serves me right he dipped out of the cipher school ... other stories had him to be SIB imbed looking for us cipher wallah's to make a boo boo.

Len (Ciphers)

Would this be the chap in question Len?

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