"That Rifle.... SLR vs SA80. Which is/ws the best?

So for those who served during the 1960s through to the 1980s with "That Rifel" the SLR. So has anyone got an opnion about the pros and cons of the 7.62 mm SLR as against the current SA80 rifle as a personal weapon.

I never did handle the SA80, it was still being trialed when I left the mob. I have fired the Le Enfield 303 bolt action rifle, but that was when I was an ATC cadet at school before leaving at 18 and taking the 'Queens Shilling'.

As for those other personal weapons, the stirling 9 mm sub-machine gun and the Browning 9 mm auto. What opinions do any old timers ahve about these weapons, and what of their replacements such as the Heckler & Kock 9mm pistol or assault rifle as used by the police.  

unclevanya wrote:

So for those who served during the 1960s through to the 1980s with "That Rifel" the SLR. So has anyone got an opnion about the pros and cons of the 7.62 mm SLR as against the current SA80 rifle as a personal weapon.

I never did handle the SA80, it was still being trialed when I left the mob. I have fired the Le Enfield 303 bolt action rifle, but that was when I was an ATC cadet at school before leaving at 18 and taking the 'Queens Shilling'.

As for those other personal weapons, the stirling 9 mm sub-machine gun and the Browning 9 mm auto. What opinions do any old timers ahve about these weapons, and what of their replacements such as the Heckler & Kock 9mm pistol or assault rifle as used by the police.  

Both have their good and bad bits IMHO! SLR more reliable, durable, squaddie proof etc, however you couldn't carry much ammo. SA80had far to many stoppages in the early days, improved greatly on the A2 version. More ammo could be carried and tis very accurate however the stopping power of 5.56 over 7.62 is debatable!

Don't know about 'squaddie proof' .... try using 2.4 on your pull through.

Len (Ciphers)

303 sten and bren were our main weapons , with the 2 inch morter and the energa anti tank grenade , non of those posh weapons some of you gents had , ginger

Since being a cadet with a Lee Enfield up to the present day, I've liked all the weapons I've been supplied with, except for the SMG.

The Lee Enfield was a brute on my poor little 14 year old shoulder and it managed to punch the cap badge of my beret into my collar bone. Once mastered though, it was a good accurate weapon, limited only by the speed of loading.

Next came the SLR (The Rifle) when I joined the TA in the 80's. Another brute with recoil, but by now I was ready for it. I found it accurate enough, bearing in mind that we didn't get a lot of range time with it. My personal weapon at the time was the SMG, least said about that, the better. The SLR had a good magazine on it, suffered very few stoppages, was easily cleaned and had few components. It was very destructive when the effect of a 7.62 round against concrete blocks was demo'd at a range. However, it was a bit long, and it was heavy and you weren't supposed to mix up the 'matched' components. Not good when a whole squad is doing weapon cleaning in the dark.

The SMG, hmmm, I know we're comparing the SLR and SA80 here, but the SMG is always worth a mention for the comedy factor. I hated it! It didn't go bang when you pulled the trigger, it went phut. However, it had few components to clean and was easily stripped and re-assembled (once you'd found that big spring which had disaapeared into the undergrowth as you released it under 'control' . Accuracy and stopping power didn't feature with this weapon. I lost at least 2 mags. I was a Railwayman at the time, and we were issued these as it was 'compact' when going beneath/between rolling stock etc. It was certainly compact when you emerged from beneath a wagon with no mag! 

Then in the late 90's, the TA finally got the SA80 A1. Funnily enough, also known as 'The Rifle'. I never personally suffered all the 'problems' that the press said occurred. Yes, the mag release needed modifying, but so did the SMGs, and that survived, even though Germany must be littered with SMG mags. Stoppages though, I never had one, nor witnessed one. We seemed to get more rounds to put down the range at this time (Post Op Granby). I found it very accurate and at a demo, quite destructive against concrete blocks. Although, 5.56 will never compare with the power of a 7.62. However, the rifle is small and quite light, as said, it is accurate, and I never experienced stoppages. However, stripping for cleaning is fiddley, you can't re-assemble it in a hurry, and if you do, you risk permanently breaking it, or ending up with some leftover parts.

Come Op Telic, the TA got A2's. Not a lot of difference except the cocking handle's shaped differently. Some internals have been 'blacked', but still show up the dirt. It's still a f**king pain to clean. If this has been squaddy proofed by H&K, we wasted some money. Because funnily enough, I've had more stoppages on the A2 , which has been stoppage proofed, allegedly. Perhaps Butt No 2 in the Armoury is a bad un.

This year, I had the chance to fire the A2 in it's Afghan guise. It is sandy couloured and comes with a range of accessories, like a fore grip, folding bipod. It was quite an experience and I certainly enjoyed turning live rounds into empty cases for a day.

So, after all that waffle, which one in my mind is/was the best. Well, none of them and all of them. They all have their good and bad points. People go on about the stopping power of various munitions, but unless you have a good operator at the none firing end, they're all the same. However, whether it's 5.56, 7.62 or 9mm, it's going to hurt a bit if it hits you.

My personal preference though would be the latest SA80 with bipod etc. I can forgive the fiddley parts, cleaning etc, for the comfort and ease of use. The SLR would come a close second though.

Waffle over  .

Nige

gingerjim wrote:

303 sten and bren were our main weapons , with the 2 inch morter and the energa anti tank grenade , non of those posh weapons some of you gents had , ginger

You surprise me, Jim - I had you down as a Musket and Flintlock person!  

The SLR was not well received when it first came out.
It was heavier than the .303.
Learning the new rifle drill was often painful, particularly shouldering arms from the Present, which often resulted in the right knee hitting the butt.
On the ranges, stoppages were a nuisance. Often, to prevent them happening, gas regulators were turned to a narrow setting, resulting in hot cases being thrown across the firing point and landing down some unfortunate's collar.
Ear defenders became necessary when it was discovered that the muzzle blast was damaging hearing.
It took a while for blokes to remember not to pick the rifle up by its barrel when moving forward during a shoot.
Despite all that though, I came to love the ugly thing.
I don't hear anything complimentary about the SA80 yet.

I had a pistol, sniff............

A pistol ?
Good luck with THAT on the Sennelager CQBR pal !  

I would have been there in supervisory capacity, sniff..............

sam, sam,pik oop tha muskit ney tha dropped it doon tha pik it oop ,

Found this old photograph of Ginger Jim taken as a Recruit.

My brief experience (RAF 1952-54) was with the Enfield.303 rifle, Smith & Wesson 38 pistol, and the Bren.
No problems with hitting anything on the range with the .303, and the Bren was superb. BUT the S&W was a disaster.I don't think my shots hit the sand in the butts let alone the target.
Later on I had very brief interlude concerning the lubrication of the early SA80. Another disastrous weapon in its early days. The was a certain ex RA Briggy trying to sell the Yank lubricant Breakfree to the Army. He failed in my time,but later??

[quote="Chemist" The was a certain ex RA Briggy trying to sell the Yank lubricant Breakfree to the Army. He failed in my time,but later??[/quote]




Do tell!!  

shelldrake i falt i ad lost that foto, brings back memories , ginger

gingerjim wrote:

shelldrake  i falt i ad lost that foto, brings back memories , ginger

  

Shelldrake wrote:

[quote="Chemist" The was a certain ex RA Briggy trying to sell the Yank lubricant Breakfree to the Army. He failed in my time,but later??

As the man on BFBS used to say "I cant say too much at this stage",BUT his name was Ransbury or Ramsbury.
PM me if you knew him or met him.



Do tell!!  [/quote]

I was surprised to be told by a serving soldier that he's currently using the H&K G3A4 and that the MoD are moving away from the 'bullpup' type assault rifle.