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 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent

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gpralph
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Private


Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2020-05-05

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime5/5/2020, 14:36

Hi

First post. I wonder whether anyone can tell me which Brigade (15th or 17th) the 2bn Royal West Kent Regiment was attached to during its time in Germany from December 1945 to November 1947 when it was in the 5th Division? I am restoring my jeep and want to mark it up as a 196 one attached to 2RWK. To get the right markings I also need to know the other regiments in the brigade.

Many thanks

Graham
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JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1114
Age : 79
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime6/5/2020, 15:07

Graham

I think you have been misinformed I can find no trace of a RWK Battalion being part of 5 Division after their move to reinforce 21 Army Group in the closing stages of WW2 and subsequent Occupation Army

Webmaster Steve may be be able to clarify when he next calls by.
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj
steve

Number of posts : 890
Age : 71
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime6/5/2020, 15:53

Welcome Graham

From my website for 17th Infantry Brigade of 5th Infantry Division

2nd Battalion Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment

Hope this helps
https://britisharmyingermany.com under construction
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https://britisharmyingermany.com
steve
LE Maj
LE Maj
steve

Number of posts : 890
Age : 71
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime6/5/2020, 16:01

JPW wrote:
Graham

I think you have been misinformed I can find no trace of a RWK Battalion being part of 5 Division after their move to reinforce 21 Army Group in the closing stages of WW2 and subsequent Occupation Army

Webmaster Steve may be be able to clarify when he next calls by.

JPW and all, please note I am not the webmaster for this forum or for the main baor-locations website, however will try and help where I can.
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https://britisharmyingermany.com
gpralph
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Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2020-05-05

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime6/5/2020, 18:54

Thanks Steve. If I am reading this correctly as of 17th Feb 1946 the 17th Brigade consisted of three main battalions:

2nd Battalion Queens Own Royal West Kent Regiment
2nd Battalion Northamptonshire Regiment
1st Battalion Border Regiment

Would the 2RWK have been the senior battalion in the Brigade (which was junior of the two Brigades after the 15th?)?

If so then the Arm of Service marking on my jeep would be a white 60 on a Green square?


Many thanks again

Graham
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Pborn4
Lt Col
Lt Col
Pborn4

Number of posts : 318
Localisation : Between Hannover and Herford, off all main routes
Cap Badge : Not even a reservist now - have been Pborn3
Places Served : Oswestry 1965, Paderborn to 1971, NE Dist, Munsterlager from 1974, Sennelager (1976 to 2012)
Registration date : 2016-12-16

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Seniority (Inf)   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime6/5/2020, 19:17

Seniority among Infantry Regiments is a complex issue viewed from today, but all the Regiments of Foot knew where they were (after the Childers' Review of 1881):
QO Royal West Kents raised 1757 as 50th of Foot
R Northamptonshire Regiment raised 1741 as 48th of Foot
Border Regt raised 1702 as Lord Lucas' Regt of Foot (34th Cumberland Regt)
(The Royal Scots was The  (1st) Regiment of Foot, known as "Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard", so you can see numbering of Regts of Foot was like an Order of Merit)

am not an Infantry expert but had to research the subject when finding genealogical references to relatives serving with "Regiments of Foot" notably the 24 th and 62nd of Foot on Garrison duties Ireland.
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj
steve

Number of posts : 890
Age : 71
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime6/5/2020, 19:54

gpralph wrote:
Thanks Steve. If I am reading this correctly as of 17th Feb 1946 the 17th Brigade consisted of three main battalions:

2nd Battalion Queens Own Royal West Kent Regiment
2nd Battalion Northamptonshire Regiment
1st Battalion Border Regiment

Would the 2RWK have been the senior battalion in the Brigade (which was junior of the two Brigades after the 15th?)?

If so then the Arm of Service marking on my jeep would be a white 60 on a Green square?


Many thanks again

Graham

Graham to add to Pborn4 post

Not an expert however have a booklet "British Regiments 1945 - 1995 by Malcolm A. Bellis"

Queens Own Royal West Kent Regiment (50th) are listed as the 7th in order of precedence of Regiments of Infantry of the Line
Border Regiment is 14th
Northamptonshire Regiment is 29th

With the situation post WW2, sure there was no seniority with infantry brigades and regiments were posted as and when required, including RA and RAC units
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https://britisharmyingermany.com
gpralph
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Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2020-05-05

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime6/5/2020, 20:10

Great stuff. Thank you. A little research by me on the Order of Precedence and then I will have the answer. Thanks to everyone.
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gpralph
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Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2020-05-05

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime6/5/2020, 23:11

According to the 1946 Army List the Royal West Kent was 47th in the order of precedence in the Infantry, below The Border Regiment and The Northamptonshire Regiment.
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dml34
Cpl
Cpl


Number of posts : 11
Localisation : Near London
Registration date : 2009-08-22

15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Empty
PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime10/5/2020, 23:16

Graham

In May 1945, the vehicles of the three battalions of 17 Inf bde were certainly marked 67, 68 and 69 and on a brown background as it was the junior brigade of 5 Inf Div.

2 RWK joined the brigade in Feb 1946 and the other two battalions at the time were 2 S Staffords and 2 Northants. If the markings were decided by order of precedence (not always the case!) then these would have been:-

2 Staffords 67, 2 Northants 68, and 2 RWK 69

Unfortunately I have seen no confirmation of the 2 RWK marking in any documentation or photograph, but can confirm that 2 Northants did bear 68.

Hope this helps.

Dave
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PostSubject: Re: 15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent   15th and 17th Brigades 1946 and 2bn Royal West Kent Icon_minitime

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