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 Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945.

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3 posters
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Rocky
WOI
WOI



Number of posts : 115
Registration date : 2009-11-23

Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Empty
PostSubject: Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945.   Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Icon_minitime29/11/2022, 21:26

When I last served in Sennelager, donkeys years ago, I managed to get hold of a short history and a map detailing the battle of Paderborn and its progress through Borchen. I did visit the approximate area where General Rose was shot dead by a Tiger II crewman, but without the map, I wouldn't be able to find the location again. I appear to have lost that map and I'm currently researching the subject, as I'm building a couple of AFV models based on actual vehicles which were engaged from both sides. I'm aware that Schwere Panzer Abteilung 507 took part and used Tiger II's. I'm having difficulty in locating a photo of one of 507s vehicles which shows the unit markings and vehicle number. Has anyone got any or can you post up a link to an on-line image? The map I had, had been given to the school kids at the former John Buchan school. I was given a copy from my boss's wife who had been a teacher there. If anyone has a copy of that map or similar, I'd be grateful for a copy.

Thanks!

Rocky
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Pborn4
Brig
Brig
Pborn4


Number of posts : 554
Localisation : Between Hannover and Herford, off all main routes
Cap Badge : Not even a reservist now - have been Pborn3
Places Served : Oswestry 1965, Paderborn to 1971, NE Dist, Munsterlager from 1974, Sennelager (1976 to 2012)
Registration date : 2016-12-16

Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945.   Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Icon_minitime29/11/2022, 22:17

The Battle for Paderborn presentation and maps had been produced by Brigade and Battle Group Training Team (BBGTT) at Sennelager and was distributed as a handout to JB School (for their "Garrison History" project) but had been compiled  by BBGTT (Brigade and Battle Group Training Team) as a Battle Field Tour illustration for a MOD UK Group.  I tried to get a full copy a couple of years later but stock  had been expended!  and in the course of time  BBGT had also been expended -  now exists as part of the Combined Arms Tactical Trainer).  [as the story and map was used on a formal Battle Field Tour it is feasible that a copy is retained at Sandhurst Library or Shrivenham or at Prince Consort's Library - see below]
Check these out:  
https://www.maier-files.com/tiger-battalion-507-schwere-panzer-abteilung/   https://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/PanzerAbt/PanzerAbt507-R.htm      https://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Karte/Truppenubungsplatze/Sennelager-R.htm    
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Paderborn_(1945)

https://www.2ndarmoredhellonwheels.com/Don_R_Marsh_Diary/diary_entry_27.html
General Rose:  https://www.jwv.org/major-general-maurice-rose-one-of-world-war-iis-greatest-combat-generals/



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMf55PrCR1E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubhf96HSA9c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t11hGZvvTLg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqXlfU8Si-4

https://www.wewelsburg.de/de/gedenkstaette-1933-1945/75-Jahre-Befreiung-des-Konzentrationslagers-in-Wewelsburg/Themen-75-Jahre-Befreiung/8-Die-Schlacht-von-Paderborn-und-der-Tod-von-US-Major-General-Maurice-Rose-bei-Schloss-Hamborn.php

* Prince Consort's Library Knollys Road, Aldershot, GU11 1PS
Tel Mil 94222 5090 | Civ 01252 340090 Fax Mil 94222 5096 | Civ 01252 340096
email: ALIS-PCL-HdLibSvcs@mod.uk
and timothy.ward455@mod.uk
Alternative details current at 8 February 2019.
Telephone Military 94222 5094 Civilian 01252 340094.
Email: pcl@ alibs. detsa. co. uk

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/tiger-2-tank-73/
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/tiger-2-tank-45/
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/tiger-2-tank-5/
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/king-tiger-tanks-4/
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/konigstiger-2/

https://panzerplace.eu/haustenbecks-heritage-jagdtiger-305-004s-journey/#identifier_5_8345


Last edited by Pborn4 on 23/12/2022, 22:51; edited 2 times in total
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Pborn4
Brig
Brig
Pborn4


Number of posts : 554
Localisation : Between Hannover and Herford, off all main routes
Cap Badge : Not even a reservist now - have been Pborn3
Places Served : Oswestry 1965, Paderborn to 1971, NE Dist, Munsterlager from 1974, Sennelager (1976 to 2012)
Registration date : 2016-12-16

Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945.   Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Icon_minitime2/12/2022, 09:10

MAP SHEET L4318   Etteln  1:25,000  (one below 4218 Paderborn)  might suit your purposes

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/GermanyMaps/id/1440/rec/1
and 4317 Geseke
https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/GermanyMaps/id/1439/rec/1
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AlienFTM
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt



Number of posts : 53
Age : 67
Localisation : Hampshire
Cap Badge : 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars
Places Served : NI, Tidworth, UNFICYP, BAOR, Worthy Down
Registration date : 2007-12-07

Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945.   Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Icon_minitime18/12/2022, 16:47

In the late 70s, my preferred secluded spot (we weren't allowed female guests in the block) was near the Südring hypermarket complex off the southern ring road (hence the name Südring).

Turn right toward a sports field just before the Südring, carry on by. Secluded. One lady friend (ironically, she married my namesake about the same time I married, and the two attended prenatal together) suggested we walk a short distance onto a bluff, looking south or south-east, a magnificent vista even at night, and described to me how at this point, the Waffen-SS tried to negotiate a free withdrawal. Not satisfied, the Americans gave them until dawn, when they'd flatten the city.

Receiving no reply, the Americans hit the city, only to find the Germans had pulled out during the night anyway.

I have no idea how accurate her story was. It was what she was taught at school.

I would guess with over 40 years' distance, about here:

https://w3w.co/ruin.hardens.drop
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http://www.arrse.co.uk
Pborn4
Brig
Brig
Pborn4


Number of posts : 554
Localisation : Between Hannover and Herford, off all main routes
Cap Badge : Not even a reservist now - have been Pborn3
Places Served : Oswestry 1965, Paderborn to 1971, NE Dist, Munsterlager from 1974, Sennelager (1976 to 2012)
Registration date : 2016-12-16

Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Empty
PostSubject: Pre-cursor to Battle of Paderborn Easter weekend 1945   Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Icon_minitime23/12/2022, 02:56

Somehow the idea of the Waffen SS trying for a cool withdrawal doesn't ring true - have emailed AlienFTM privately with some German reports from the day (29/30 Mar 1945).  Enjoyed his route card for  night escapades  - the road he refers to is called Querweg (runs from Borchenerstrasse Paderborn to Schloss Hamborn a pleasant country road) - easily defended out in the Ooloo by a single Tiger tank.
On the date of this occurrence (Good Friday 30 Mar 45) Paderborn had already been bombed and other American elements were having a battle at Neuhaus en route to Sennelager.Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Rose_p10
so i'd reckon Point Rose as being https://what3words.com/humanities.illogical.chug

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Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945.   Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945. Icon_minitime

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