RAOC Bread

Sad I know, but I am looking for a decent RAOC Bread Wrapper to add to my RAOC collection, any day of the week will do.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.comerford/ORDNANCE/

I live in hope.

Jeepers Mike, what I remember about BAOR bread was that some of the new bread went green faster than the older bread.

PS: Good luck in your search

Oh I don't know it used to go hard before it went green! A lot of it used to turn up frozen and never matched the day of the week on the wrapper!

On guard duty, favourite was fried egg banjo on RAOC bread (usually a Tuesday wrapper) or plenty of toast.

My search continues.

RAOC bread was great on the day of issue but overnight it would change to cardboard.

This isn't helping poor Mike find his bread wrapper, but it is an interesting discussion.

They must have started wrapping bread sometime after 1965. In my days the bread was transported from the bakery at West Riding Barracks in Dortmund in big wire baskets. (RCASC drivers who did the 'bread run' were admonished to make sure they swept their trucks out before loading...comforting thoughtfulness!) The white bread came in big, almost square loaves and was allegedly made to Canadian dietary specifications, whatever that meant.

I saw the bakery on one occasion in 1957 and was quite impressed with the set-up. Everything was mounted on vehicles and trailers inside a big drill hall or warehouse, sort of ready to go when the balloon went up. (Frankly I doubt the Russians would have given them time to let the first batch rise, but there it was.) The cooks were all German civilians as I recall.

Good luck in your difficult quest, Mike.

RAOC Bread was available with the 'day' marked on the wrapper in the mid 1980s on Cyprus. The RAOC Bakery supplied the bread to the NAAFI, who inturn sold it to the Forces personnel.

Not sure, but I believe the RAOC also baked pies and had their own butchers who were responsible for checking meat quality supplied to the various Messes and cook houses.

While I am indeed looking for a bread wrapper (anything RAOC really) I like the fact that it has turned into a discusson as well.

Yes prior to 1965 and the McLeod reorganisation bread was indeed baked by the RASC who also started to wrap some bread for Berlin to start with in similar wrappers.

The RAOC had Static & Mobile Bakery's in both the UK & BAOR as well as Laundry & Bath Units with mostly used to camp together near a natural water supply on exercises.

Most Mobile Bakery's were manned by RAOC Solders and attached to Ordnance Field Parks (called Ord Coys in the 80's) or 10 Ord Support Bn in the UK as part of AMF(L)

Bakery's attached to RAOC Supply Depots indeed also baked pies and soft bread rolls.

The RAOC had local Resources Sections which purchased Meat, Vegetables and Fruit plus all manor of other foodstuffs, and Butcher was indeed a specialist trade within the Corps.

The term used during wartime is "Combat Supplies" which was Ammunition, POL (Petroleum, Oils & Lubricants) plus Rations & Water, which while in the main was packed Composite Rations with Biscuits [aka Compo) Bread & Potatoes were wherever possible supplied either localy produced or by a mobile bakery. This still applies today.

I saw a RLC mobile bakery based on 2 expanding 20' containers on the back of 8 Tonne 'Drops' Vehicles at the RLC Open Day at Deepcut last year, and the bread was still warm and very tasty.

A quick note on why RAOC bread did not keep. It had no preservatives added, same as most good non mass produced bread. It was intended to be consumed within 48 hours or frozen for up to 3 months as it was in Berlin as a 'War Blockade Reserve'

If I remember right Mike the wrappers were white greaseproof paper with different coloured stripes for each day of the week.

Thanks Nobby, I remember what they look like - But try finding one!

I have found and acquired many differant RAOC items over the years, some I was not even looking for, but this very basic and granted disposable item that must have been produced in its tens of thousands eludes me. Even a half descant picture of one at that.

This is one of the things I like most about this site...growing up Army I took so much of what we had/experienced for granted.

It never occurred to me that staples such as bread, for instance, would be produced by the Army for Army personnel. Of course, once one thinks it through it's one of those "well...duh!" moments.

The neat thing about the site is the exploration/discussion of such things.

I dunno...I guess I thought such things were sourced out -- and I'm sure many such items were. I knew all the foods consumed on base were cooked up by the Army cooks who, despite the folklore to the contrary, were damn fine cooks and served up good grub (at least the Canadian ones did). My only experience with the British side of things were school meals at Cornwall Comprehensive in Dortmund and believe me, they were foul!!! High starch content, and greasy. What was supposed to be lasagna, I think, could have been used as either a doorstop or a deadly weapon. Then there was this meat stew concoction that looked dreadful but I didn't mind the taste...used lots of salt mind you as it was a bit...uhm...flat. Apparently saltpeter doesn't have much flavour to it LOL (he says only half jokingly; I suspected, but could never prove, the authorities did in fact lace the school food with saltpeter but who knows...).

On the occasion I got to eat real Army food, like in the canteen or at a Mess function attended with my parents once I was older (rare), I always found the food to be tasty, solid, down-to-earth, nutritious, and quite palatable. Good food and LOTS of it.

Another translation is needed however....RAOC. I'm guessing it's "Royal...something....Ordance Corp"? Oh wait...it wouldn't be Royal Army Ordance Corp, would it? I should know this since my dad was Ordance Corp...a supply tech.

'Royal Army Ordnance Corps' now amalgamated along with the 'Royal Corps of Transport', 'Army Catering Corps', 'Royal Pioneer Corps' and the postal eliment of the 'Royal Engineers' into the 'Royal Logistic Corps' since April 1993

Bread is indeed contracted out these days, but RLC bakery's still produce bread on major exercises and the like.

Mike_2817 wrote:

Thanks Nobby, I remember what they look like - But try finding one!

I have found and acquired many differant RAOC items over the years, some I was not even looking for, but this very basic and granted disposable item that must have been produced in its tens of thousands eludes me. Even a half descant picture of one at that.

See what you mean Mike,I've scoured the net thinking I'd find a picture but no luck.
When you think of all those wrappers you've screwed up and binned over the years,if only you'd kept one.

nobby clark wrote:

See what you mean Mike,I've scoured the net thinking I'd find a picture but no luck.

Tried google myself but no luck.

When you think of all those wrappers you've screwed up and binned over the years,if only you'd kept one.

Story of my life

One day, One will turn up.

The thing I remember is with RAOC Bread was that it fitted just right on the the top of a Parafin stove with the head screwed off to toast it, which made an easy quick meal cooker ie Toasted Egg Butty usually done in the back of Landrover sometimes even on the move ...ohj if only these safety boys could see that now..

Bob BAOR 69-77

This is not a reflection on RAOC bread!

Remember when a whole unit went on exercise and we were isssed with our lunch pack wrapped (ready for the 6 hour drive) in white grease proof paper. The contents were 'usually' bread with a bit of meat, a boiled egg and usually an orange. Sometimes there was a Mars Bar included.

I was amused to see the Cooks melting the marg/butter and applying it to hundreds of slices of bread using a basting brush.

Alan, I visited a 'Sandwich Factory' last year who supplied packed sandwich's for shops etc, and they used a special brush in much the same way!

What used to make me smile about packed lunches (in brown paper sacks) is that they were usually attacked before we even left the main gate if they were given out, so much so that they started to carry them in bread trays to be issued later.

Usual contents;

One or two rounds of bread filled with meat or cheese with tomato.
Boiled Egg or Packet of Crisps
Packet of Biscuits or Compo Chocolate if you were lucky
Apple, Orange or Banana

pack lunches,range day stew,tea and sandwitches for the guard room.any other regular meals you remember,dave.

Now now Dan, main subject is still Bread.

Maybe we need to start a food section.

nobby clark wrote:

If I remember right Mike the wrappers were white greaseproof paper with different coloured stripes for each day of the week.

You jogged my memory, Nobby. (It needs a lot of that these days.) Yes, I remember seeing the wrapped bread in the 60s. Different coloured stripes running through the white paper. Right?

Mike_2817 wrote:

'Royal Army Ordnance Corps' now amalgamated along with the 'Royal Corps of Transport', 'Army Catering Corps', 'Royal Pioneer Corps' and the postal eliment of the 'Royal Engineers' into the 'Royal Logistic Corps' since April 1993

Bread is indeed contracted out these days, but RLC bakery's still produce bread on major exercises and the like.

Thanks...of course I had to go and misspell "Ordnance" didn't I? My dad will be rolling in his grave over that!

While becoming Royal Logistics makes sense...I think the Canadian Ordnance Corp likewise became Logistics...and I can somewhat see how Transport might get thrown into the mix and possibly the Catering Corp (although that's beginning to stretch things a tad), I can't quite figure how the Royal Pioneer Corp (what is that...a corp for all the oldies??) and the postal element of the Engineers got wrapped up in that.

There is a distinct tradition to the Ordnance Corp (both the RAOC as well as the Canadian Ordnance Corp) as well as distinct traditions attached to Transport, Engineers, even catering and of course the Pioneer Corp I would assume (since I don't know much about them but the name certainly suggests a line of tradition to them) and it seems a shame to just toss them all in together because some mucky-muck bureaucrat somewhere decided it made some sort of sense to do so.

We faced a not dissimilar issue several years ago when the Department of National Defence (DND) decided during a period when there was a huge push to Canadianize all our traditions (out with the Red Ensign and in with the Maple Leaf flag; out with Dominion Day and in with "Canada Day" (blech); out with the Royal Canadian Post Office and in with "Canada Post" etc) to ditch the distinctiveness of the Army, Navy and Air Force, with their separate traditions and uniforms and, yes, way of doing things, design new uniforms and "re-brand" everything as the Canadian Armed Forces.

Integration, as it was it known, did not sit well with any soldier, sailor, or airmen worth his salt or their families. The new uniforms were dismissed as The Jolly Green Jumper and disparaged as looking like something a bus driver would wear. The everyday "work uniform" was a sloppy looking, baggy, drab camouflage effort that I suppose was quite serviceable but looked like hell. Still does.

As a further aside...when the Canadian Ordnance Corp was becoming Logistics they, of course, needed a new cap badge.

My dad was one of the pre-eminent cap badge collectors in Canada (his collection was much sought after following his untimely death at the age of 50 in 1980. Mom sold the collection and got enough for a down payment on a house at 1980 prices...some of his pieces were quite valuable) and quite artistic and he designed what eventually was adopted as the new design...two interlocking square links. Of course, he didn't receive any compensation for that and held no copyright on it; it was owned by DND. I believe he might have received a letter of acknowledgment for his efforts, but that was it. I don't even think there is any official record he was the designer, which I think sucks but such is life within DND.

recce83 wrote:

nobby clark wrote:

If I remember right Mike the wrappers were white greaseproof paper with different coloured stripes for each day of the week.

You jogged my memory, Nobby. (It needs a lot of that these days.) Yes, I remember seeing the wrapped bread in the 60s. Different coloured stripes running through the white paper. Right?

Correct recce,I remember going through an issue of bread to find the freshest,mind you they could have been frozen and the one you thought was freshest may have been three weeks old.

Best RAOC Bread I every had was fresh from the oven along with baps which we made Egg Banjo's & Bacon Butties with, during Exercise Lionheart.

This was after a shower and change of cloths by a RAOC Laundry & Bath Unit. We were co-located for 2 days, Bliss

Mike_2817 wrote:

Best RAOC Bread I every had was fresh from the oven along with baps which we made Egg Banjo's & Bacon Butties with, during Exercise Lionheart.

This was after a shower and change of cloths by a RAOC Laundry & Bath Unit. We were co-located for 2 days, Bliss

Reading about 'butties' reminds me of a British Army wife friend of mine in Soest who almost lived on 'chip butties'....large wedges of potatoe awash in lard or huge amounts of butter on white NAAFI bread, dripping in fat and cholesterol no doubt! Heavily salted as well, as I recall. One bite and you could hear your arteries clogging LOL but delicious.

Of course, in her dialect it came out as 'cheep bu'hies' but no less delicious for all that.

Ah well 'Chip Butties' are a way of British life Stephen! But no longer fried in beef dripping, nowadays its Vegetable Oil.

NAAFI Bread

NAAFI used to source their bread from Holland or Denmark, as the Germans were not really into White Bread in a big way, and only in Berlin did Married Families get issued with RAOC Bread.

Pad's (Nickname for married soldiers who lived out of camp - Or Bean Stealer's was another unkind nickname) used to take home Army Bread when on duty if there was any to spare, as already stated it did not keep long (like a lot of bread at the time) so it would only get thrown away.

On the questern of 'Butties'

Tradition in the British Army closely followed that of life back home, but with bits of Indian Army thrown in for good measure! But some slang is pure Army

Anything eaten between two slices of Bread is a Sandwich. Named it is said after after John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, an 18th-century English aristocrat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich

But there are Sandwich's and there are Sandwich's

An Egg Sandwich in army terms is always termed as a EGG BANJO. On duty, Made with RAOC Sliced Bread, lightly spread with Margarine and a Fried Egg, 'Sunny Side Up' with a runny yolk and Brown Sauce (Never 'Tomato Ketchup' to the true aficionado)

A Bacon Sandwich is a BUTTY, as is a Chip Butty.

Every thing else is a Sandwich, unless it is on a Bun, when it is a BAP even a Bacon BAP - But a BANJO is still a BANJO

I may even tell you why it is called a Banjo next!

Egg Banjo Link

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Egg_Banjo

In this link sacrilege is committed by the mere suggestion of 'Ketchup'

Also a hot "Almost egg banjo" made with boiled eggs is a new one on me! But times change. Hay ho