Royal Marines

The Royal Marines now have their own area on the Forum.

Much research has been done by JPW, and still is being done, and has allowed information to be posted on the main site for the Royal Marines.

If you have anything to add, please feel free to post it.

Paul.

And just to start it off - is it true that the globe on the Royal Marines cap badge is the opposite half of the planet to the American Marines

And how did the name "Bootneck" come about I have been told - can you confirm it

Paul.

United States Marine Corp (USMC) globe portrays North and South America, whereas the Royal Marines globe portrays Europe, Africa and Asia with the perspective hovering somewhere out over the sea just south of India or possibly Saudi Arabia so that Europe and Africa are somewhat distorted.

The globe is surmounted by the British Crown topped by the Royal Standard Crowned Lion with "Gibraltar" below them.

Paul

Thank you

I have recently sent you details of the 116 Infantry Brigade RM deployment in Wilhelmshaven in May/June 1945 (with detachments to Emden)

Hi Paul,
I was told by the matelots that the term "Bootneck" came from the leather stock that a lot of the military of the Napoleonic period had to wear around their necks to make them hold their heads up.
They call the Marines "Rockapes" too, I'm not sure which is worse!
Baz.

bazza wrote:

Hi Paul,
I was told by the matelots that the term "Bootneck" came from the leather stock that a lot of the military of the Napoleonic period had to wear around their necks to make them hold their heads up.
They call the Marines "Rockapes" too, I'm not sure which is worse!
Baz.

That is one of the explanations I have heard, but there is another one that I prefer. Let us see if anyone can come up with it.

Paul.

I was once told the nickname derived from them cutting the top from a leather boot and wearing it to stop sailors cutting their throat while they guarded officers on board British sailing ships in the days of old. But soldiers of the day also wore them so that is a bit of a myth!

Mike_2817 wrote:

I was once told the nickname derived from them cutting the top from a leather boot and wearing it to stop sailors cutting their throat while they guarded officers on board British sailing ships in the days of old. But soldiers of the day also wore them so that is a bit of a myth!

That is the one I like Mike.

As you say, most soldiers wore them, but there is an element of sense in the story.

Paul.

The practice of making soldiers wear the leather stock originates from the Prussian army I think Paul, although I can see the need for protection, as Mike says, from Jack Tar's knife!
At about the same time, the men's hair was required to be pulled back and tied in a cue, or pigtail. The hair had to be pulled back so tightly that the men had difficulty closing their eyes.
A tough life!
Baz.

bazza wrote:

They call the Marines "Rockapes" too, I'm not sure which is worse!
Baz.

The term 'Rock Apes' is more commonly used since the 50's for the RAF Regiment!

Uh oh,
We'll be on to "Crab Air" next!

Mike_2817 wrote:

I was once told the nickname derived from them cutting the top from a leather boot and wearing it to stop sailors cutting their throat while they guarded officers on board British sailing ships in the days of old. But soldiers of the day also wore them so that is a bit of a myth!

Two things:

USMC types are also often referred to as "Leathernecks" which would appear to be at least somewhat connected to the "bootneck". Why the leather collar thing, I have no idea...seems a tad -- uhm -- kinky to me!

Secondly, Mike_2817 said the apparatus was to prevent sailors from cutting their throat while they guarded officers on board British sailing ships...was the duty that gawdawful they'd be tempted to? Cripes, sounds like my job!!! We're just not allowed anything sharp LOL

Stephen.

The leather collar (or stock) worn by both Royal Marines and British Soldiers is a recoded fact

From the 1802 Clothing Regulations (amendments)

8 July 1791 [by Regulations of 19th December 1768 Clothing Warrant]

Black Leather Stocks to be worn by the Non-commissioned Officers, Drummers, Fifers and Privates of the Guards and by every other description of Regiments or Corps of Infantry.

There appears to be two versions of the, 1802 Clothing Regulations. A first edition/draft, which was amended and republished with corrections on 22nd May 1802.

The use as protection by RM's is as I say more conjecture and Urbon Myth than anything else.

You have to remember however that sailers were press ganged into navel service and would have been resentfull of this.

Springbok Barracks (has been called Joslin (Jocelyn?) Barracks and  may have been Walcheren Barracks)   Minden Ringstrasse, adjoining Melitta Coffee factory and the Mittelland Canal Freight Jetty  

Seems 48 RM Commando had their troop photo there in 1945  after VE Day, they were later deployed to Wewelsburg:

Great photo

Here are the battalion movements post VE day taken from war diaries held at Kew

22 May 45 – 48th Commando Battalion Royal Marines from 2nd Canadian Corps
Battalion Headquarters: Walcheren Barracks formally Artillerie Kaserne for HQ Allied Naval Commander Expeditionary Force Minden located in the Melitta Coffee Factory (thanks to JPW for confirmation) with GHQ Troops for admin

6 Jul 45 – Borken east of Bocholt

28 Jun 45 – Troop to Rheinberg attached 17th Army Group RA for train guard duties
5 Jul 45 – Recklinghausen
16 Aug 45 – Troop returns to Battalion

27 Aug 45 – Waltrop north of Dortmund relieving 4th/5th Royal Scots Fusiliers relieved by 607th Infantry Regiment RA
3 Sep 45 – Nordkirchen and Sudkirchen
27 Nov 45 – Büren south-west of Paderborn then to the UK