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 SLR / SA80 or M16!

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Wilf
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Number of posts : 314
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Bicester-Soltau-Canada-Kineton-Paderborn-Osnabruck (Inc Gulf 1) Donnington-Civy Strasse.
Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: SLR / SA80 or M16!   23/10/2008, 07:49

I know the SLR was a bit of an elephant gun but it was what I was used to and I liked it. The first time we went on the range with the SA80 it didn't instill any confidence at all, it was in a word, garbage. That was the Mk 1 however and I'm told they have improved considerably since then. I never did understand why we didn't convert from SLR to M16! I never used an M16 myself but everyone I've spoken to who has used one has nothing but praise for the weapon.
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nobby clark
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Number of posts : 102
Age : 70
Localisation : manchester
Cap Badge : 1R.Hamps / RAOC
Places Served : baor-Hong Kong-Malaya-Borneo-Belize-F.I.-Cyprus-N.I.-UK.
Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   27/10/2008, 13:24

I agree with you Andrew,I liked the SLR and having used the AR15 in Borneo the M16 would have been ideal,plus the drill manual would not have had to be re-written.
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Oscar71
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Places Served : Arborfield, Bordon, Detmold, MedMan4 1992
Registration date : 2008-12-08

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   8/12/2008, 20:50

Trained on the SLR, then when I arrived at my first posting they were just converting to the SA80. I preferred the SLR because it was a solid bit of kit, however the SA80 was far more practical when on exercise especially when your a Metalsmith and need to swing around on vehicles to repair them etc.

As for moving to the M16, I hope that never happens - look at the trouble the yanks had with it throughout the Vietnam war, also it isn't too wise to rely on other countries for your weaponry, we already get so much from the yanks.
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
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Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   10/12/2008, 11:39

Nasty horrible things weapons. Wink
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glyndwr
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Age : 73
Localisation : hereford
Cap Badge : Grenadier Guards
Places Served : British Guiana, BAOR, N/Ireland, Trucial States.
Registration date : 2008-12-11

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/12/2008, 14:06

Yep, Lived with the SLR for nine years! Best since the Mark 4 Lea Enfield. Used in the Army Cadets and TA before joining the regulars.
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jerry
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Number of posts : 186
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Localisation : Abergele
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Dortmund/Hameln/ Malaya FARELF Marchwood Aldershot Yeovil
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   11/12/2008, 16:14

Did my training with the Lea Enfield, and service with SLR
Returned briefly to the Lea Enfield, at Warminster
(that name should please you Jim !!)
For Sniper use with the telescopic sight.
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jim
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   12/12/2008, 12:52

If the Lea Enfield was the .303 then I used that in the CCF, liked it as well, I managed to get sniper, never did so well with the SLR Jerry.
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jerry
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Number of posts : 186
Age : 76
Localisation : Abergele
Cap Badge : RASC/RCT
Places Served : Dortmund/Hameln/ Malaya FARELF Marchwood Aldershot Yeovil
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   12/12/2008, 16:36

Yep 303 it was. You could get snipers eye with the recoil,
I joked with the instructor, I'll get bolt nose (firing left handed)
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Wilf
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Registration date : 2008-10-22

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   19/12/2008, 12:34

At the risk of sounding a tad pedantic, are we talking sniper or marksman!
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jim
Let Gen
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Number of posts : 1291
Localisation : Sutton Coldfield
Cap Badge : RAOC
Places Served : Dad, Hamburg, Bad Oeynhausen, Iserlohn, Bury, Osnabruck, Worcester. Me Detmold, Bielefeld, NI, HK
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   22/12/2008, 11:01

oh yes, Marksman, sorry. Smile
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Toshi
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Age : 61
Localisation : Gutersloh Germany
Cap Badge : RE
Places Served : Nienburg, SHAPE, Willich, Tidworth,Hameln & Gütersloh
Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   24/12/2008, 07:39

I had 18 years of the Slr (silly long rifel) You could do some damage with it. Only trouble I found was that you had to carry a large amount of ammo.
I also had to put up with the 9mm SMG (silly metal gun) As much good as useless.

John S
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mjm34
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Age : 67
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Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   21/2/2009, 18:52

Toshi wrote:
I had 18 years of the Slr (silly long rifel) You could do some damage with it. Only trouble I found was that you had to carry a large amount of ammo.
I also had to put up with the 9mm SMG (silly metal gun) As much good as useless.

John S

But at least the SMG was a lot easier to carry around, and to strip and clean.
Mike
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Paul
Maj Gen
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Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
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Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   21/2/2009, 21:23

mjm34 wrote:
Toshi wrote:
I had 18 years of the Slr (silly long rifel) You could do some damage with it. Only trouble I found was that you had to carry a large amount of ammo.
I also had to put up with the 9mm SMG (silly metal gun) As much good as useless.

John S

But at least the SMG was a lot easier to carry around, and to strip and clean.
Mike

Welcome to the Forum, Mike. Another "scaley"!! Is this a plot Suspect

Seriously though, it is good to have another member, the more the merrier and the more that may come to light as regards the history of BAOR.

As regards the SMG, I remember the good Cpl Bruce telling me in basic that it could not be fired left-handed. I tried it and soon found out why, the empty cases bouncing off just under the eyeball. I thought he was going to either beat the !!!! out of me, or kill himself with laughter!!

Paul.
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ciphers
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Number of posts : 962
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   22/2/2009, 22:09

Don't forget the Bren boys, here's a little ode I penned to it some years back ... I've got a million of them ...

Len (Ciphers)


The Soldiers Friend


Gathered in a training room, May of fifty-one,
Attempting to grasp the workings of the light machine gun.
The instructor looked exasperated at our lack of ken,
As he sighed, and tried one more time, to impart the workings of the Bren.


There are, he said, five main groups making up the gun,
Now pay attention carefully as through the groups I run.
First there is the barrel, then there is the butt,
Then comes the body - don't forget the locking nut.
Now to remove the piston, you move it fully to the rear,
Twist off the bi-pod, place it carefully over here.


Everybody got it, the instructor asks, with a fiendish grin,
But we were all still struggling - with a body locking pin.
Once you've learned this lot, and got it off by heart,
We will quickly go over another 365 listed working parts.
Magazine holds thirty two - you load only twenty eight,
This here is the gas block - to regulate, rotate.


Leaf backsight for accuracy - graded to a thousand yards,
This here is the trigger - this the trigger guard.
Now we'll strip the trigger - pay attention here,
This item is called the bent - this here, is the seer.
Spring retaining plunger - must be pressed of course,
Some say the gun kicks like a mule, not so, more like a bloody horse.


Your weapon is your best friend, so treat it with respect,
You will learn to handle it with ease, sooner than you expect.
I look down at the monster, stripped and at my feet,
And shudder at the prospect, that an enemy I'd meet,
What with body locking pins, and spring retaining nuts,
I'm of the firm opinion, that I hate its bloody guts.


Len Payne
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mjm34
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Number of posts : 262
Age : 67
Localisation : Gtr Manchester
Cap Badge : R.Signals
Places Served : BAOR, UK, Mid East, Far East, Cent America
Registration date : 2009-02-21

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   22/2/2009, 23:22

Paul wrote:
Welcome to the Forum, Mike. Another "scaley"!! Is this a plot Suspect

Seriously though, it is good to have another member, the more the merrier and the more that may come to light as regards the history of BAOR.

As regards the SMG, I remember the good Cpl Bruce telling me in basic that it could not be fired left-handed. I tried it and soon found out why, the empty cases bouncing off just under the eyeball. I thought he was going to either beat the !!!! out of me, or kill himself with laughter!!

Paul.

Thanks for the welcome Paul. wasn't firing left handed the same problem with the SA80?
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Paul
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   22/2/2009, 23:26

mjm34 wrote:
Paul wrote:
Welcome to the Forum, Mike. Another "scaley"!! Is this a plot Suspect

Seriously though, it is good to have another member, the more the merrier and the more that may come to light as regards the history of BAOR.

As regards the SMG, I remember the good Cpl Bruce telling me in basic that it could not be fired left-handed. I tried it and soon found out why, the empty cases bouncing off just under the eyeball. I thought he was going to either beat the !!!! out of me, or kill himself with laughter!!

Paul.

Thanks for the welcome Paul. wasn't firing left handed the same problem with the SA80?

I honestly could not tell you, I never had the "pleasure" of firing the weapon. I have heard that there was a problem with "cack handers" and the SA80.

Paul.
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wrinkles
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Age : 73
Localisation : Birmingham, UK
Cap Badge : Mercian Brigade, 1st Bn Worc Rgt
Places Served : Uk, Honduras,Tripoli, BAOR, UK, Tobruk, Gibraltar, short stints in Canada, USA, Barbados & Dominica
Registration date : 2007-05-15

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   23/2/2009, 16:44

I never had the doubtful pleasure of the SA80 Having started on the Lee Enfield 303. and quickly changing to the SLR. Being a country boy I could castrate a flea at 100yds with the 303 and that got me my marksman badge. The SLR was a different kettle of fish I never quite got the hang of it and I was soon switched to the 7.62 Bren with which I could hit what I aimed at. Practically my only contact with the SLR from then on was on Drill parades for as I progressed my personal weapon became the SMG. Yes it was easy to carry, easy to clean and so easy to fire it often did it on it's own. I always thought it was more of a danger to us than to any enemy. On a live firing advance to contact I saw one dropped as the guy fell over whilst running to the firing point, it went off and emptied a full mag in all directions, Despite some very close calls no-one stopped one. Shocked
Ah! happy days Rolling Eyes
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Paul
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Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
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Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   23/2/2009, 16:49

wrinkles wrote:
..... and so easy to fire it often did it on it's own. I always thought it was more of a danger to us than to any enemy. On a live firing advance to contact I saw one dropped as the guy fell over whilst running to the firing point, it went off and emptied a full mag in all directions, Despite some very close calls no-one stopped one. Shocked
Ah! happy days Rolling Eyes

The aforementioned Cpl Bruce showed us the same thing as a warning, by bouncing the butt off a wall on the firing range. Quite eye-opening when you have not even fired it in the first place.

Paul.
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Big_Mike
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Number of posts : 43
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Localisation : Near Bremen, Germany
Cap Badge : Royal Fusiliers, rejoined RE
Places Served : BAOR, UK, HK, Cyprus, NI
Registration date : 2008-06-27

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   24/2/2009, 00:01

I posted this comment on another forum, but it sums up my feelings.
'The SLR or L1A1 was truly a good weapon. First produced in Belgium by FN, went around the world in different flavours, ours being L1A1 and L1A2. The first SLR being introduced to the British Army by 1956. Some special units had the Australian L2A2, but for most we had the L1A2 mine being fitted with the SUIT sights. We got the 25/25 round (Back-to-Back) mag. To my mind this was the best British weapon with grouping at 600 yds. A lethal weapon in the hands of a British soldier. The SLR is not an assault weapon, so the SA80 was born. Being a shorter weapon, with smaller rounds makes it handy for the combat soldier to use. But, as Ex. weapons instructor, no one can tell me that the shorter barrel and the 5.56mm, and mostly automatic fire is better than my L1A2 with the 7.62 round. As weapons they both have a role to play. I will just say that I could kill at 1000+ Mtrs with my weapon.

I have met a lot of soldiers back from Afghanistan that would dearly love the L1A2 back in service as a bridge between SA80 and GPMG. The SA80 Doesn't have the range or the accuracy, and the sights were better on the L1A2.


Mike in Germany
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Paul
Maj Gen
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Number of posts : 817
Age : 65
Localisation : Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge : R.E.M.E.
Places Served : Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date : 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   24/2/2009, 00:11

Mike,

Posted a reply to your Bad Salz post.

Paul.


Last edited by Paul on 25/2/2009, 22:31; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   25/2/2009, 19:50

Sorry Guys, yet another Ex-Scaley joins the group.

I should think that what you trained and used in service would be the one you'd pick.

Course, I used them all myself, and fondly remember by degrees.

Should I have been a PBI in those early testing days, Say Ate Yay!

Would have opted for Early Release than faced those Russian hordes!

Don't forget the L1 A1 Self Loading Rifle concept was the through and through - Kill one; knock two more on their backs - Asian throngs to assail.

Another reason to be cheerful when urban deployment took us to the Emerald Isle - Where of course the MP5, M16 or G3 could have made more sense.

But I hear, what about your favorite?, you all say.

Well, ignoring the kick in the clavicle, it has to be a good Lee Enfield MK4 for steady accurate fire. Followed by the LMG (7.62 converded Bren) for rapid accurate fire and both on the target range.

When facing Russian or Asian Hordes - the trusty L1 A1 SLR comes into its all.

Did someone mention Jimmy Pea?.........and, in the sustained fire role, the GPMG could easily account for much much more.

Finally, the Daganham Sterling or the MP5? - Of course no contest for accurate rapid fire - No pull to high right or spent brass to strike an eye.

But, before we condemn the Sterling out of hand just remember what it replaced - The Sten was originally made for 1&6 so draw your own conclusion.

So in fin, do you think the latest NIG will give two hoots for anything other than their trusty SA80, Minimi, or Jimmy Pea?
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ciphers
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Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   26/2/2009, 03:40

Fired my first SMLE in the Army Cadets 1946, one hell of a kick for a 14 year old .. Basic Training on Lee Enfield MkIV, during my many postings alternated between Lee Enfield and Sten Mk's 1 -5. Joined TA in 1963 and used SLR. All had their place depending on circumstances, but as an ex Drill Pig you could not beat the old SMLE for balance and handling. As a point of interest Certa Ceto (Swft and Sure), Typo or ????.

Len(Ciphers_
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PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   26/2/2009, 09:03

Hi Len (Cipers), Good to meet you!

Firstly, no its not a typo - I know its not an original idea for an ex-scaley to use it, but there we are. Actually, when taking that moment to decide what to use, I considered not even putting in the capitals. Then erred on the side of caution and included the capitals anyway.

Yes, the SMLE Lee Enfield MK4 was also the first "full bore" weapon that I qualified on as a young Army Cadet, attaining the "Marksman" rifle and crown, which I proudly wore on the sleeve of my BD's

Our first time on the range was a hoot when we were issued with cotton wool and Vaseline as ear defenders! Mind you, one good bit of advice was to take our berets off, fold in two and stuff them into our tunics shoulder area. At the next evening parade we all went around comparing bruises!

Eh! I love the smell or cordite in the morning! javascript:emoticonp('lol!')
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ciphers
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Number of posts : 962
Age : 83
Localisation : Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada V2S 7C5
Cap Badge : Royal Signals
Places Served : Catterick (1951) - BAOR (1952 -1954)-(Herford - Bunde - Munster) - Japan (Kure) - Korea (Pusan - Seoul) - Cyprus (Nicosia) - Suez Op (1st Guards Brigade) - UK (63 Sigs Regt TA, Southampton)
Registration date : 2008-06-30

PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   26/2/2009, 18:21

No the typo I meant was Certa CETO ... should be Certa CITO ..
and yes can't beat the smell of cordite and gun oil, beats Chanel#5 any day.
My first time firing the old SMLE in shirt sleeve order I thought I had been kicked by a horse, then I fired a PIAT ... holy jesus I don't know what went further, the shell or me (backwards) .. but then having to reload it, I thought I would get a hernia ..

Ciphers
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PostSubject: Re: SLR / SA80 or M16!   26/2/2009, 18:46

Cipers, Mea Culpa!

Now this is amazing, I have just been having an animated discussion with my daughter about lack of attention to detail. Well this puts me in my place! I did not notice - even when prompted; you see what you want to see I suppose.

Thank you for sparing me any further embarrassment!!
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