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 CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY

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ChrisP
WOI
WOI


Number of posts: 100
Localisation: Kent, UK
Cap Badge: RAMC
Places Served: Sennelager, Mil Wing MPH, Ditton, Hohne, Sennelager(again), Newcastle and Rheindahlen
Registration date: 2010-02-12

PostSubject: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   21/2/2010, 18:20

I know I can rely on you knowledgeable people. I have had an email from a German gent who rescued a VW Beetle from eastern germany. (He doesn't say where). He has restored it and has discovered from the VW Museum that it was used by the CCG in Churchill Bks, Lippstadt up to 1952. He is unsure if the markings are correct and would like some information about the vehicle (assuming his markings are close to correct). I have found some information on the web regarding CCG but not about where they were based etc. Can anyone out there help?

CCG VW2

" border="0" alt="" />CCG VW1
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JPW
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts: 825
Age: 73
Localisation: Berkshire
Cap Badge: REME
Places Served: Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date: 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   21/2/2010, 22:32

At first sight the vehicle looks like an accurate representation of a military VW which were widely used throughout the then British Zoner of Occupation, certainly the CCG shield is similar to that used by other CCG sponsored organisations such as the Cuxhaven based German Minesweeping Organisation/Administration.

CCG was the British element of the Military Government responsible for all civilan administrative matters following the German Surrender in May 1945. At its height some 26,000 UK Civil Servants were employed, many with a military background. These steadily declined in numbers as responsibilities were gradually transferred to the embryo German departments at local, regional and nation levels as the new Federal structure of Civilian Government was developed throughout Western Germany.

HQ CCG was in Bad Salzuflen, there were Regional HQs in Dusseldorf, Hannover, Kiel and Hamburg and in the 1940s, small detachments in all the major towns throughout the British Zone

It would be interesting to note when the Beetle was built, certainly it is of the immediate post war design (small split rear windows) some of which were still in use by Station Staff Officers in the mid 60s. If it is one of the very early years it could have been produced when VW Wolfsburg was being run by a Management team of serving REME Oficers.
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Paul
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Number of posts: 817
Age: 62
Localisation: Limavady, N.I.
Cap Badge: R.E.M.E.
Places Served: Arborfield (Basic training), S.E.M.E. Bordon (Trade training), Barnard Castle, Hemer, Belfast (Emergency Tour), Londonderry, Munster, Brunei, Hong Kong
Registration date: 2008-04-06

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   21/2/2010, 23:19

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PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   25/2/2010, 19:45

JPW,

Can you put any meat on the bones for the precise CCG locations?

Would the HQ at Bad Salzuflen have been located in the Rathaus, perhaps?

Flash
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PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   25/2/2010, 19:46

Entered in error


Last edited by Claymore on 25/2/2010, 19:47; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Entered in error)
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj


Number of posts: 647
Age: 65
Localisation: near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge: Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served: Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date: 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   26/2/2010, 08:56

Claymore wrote:
JPW,

Can you put any meat on the bones for the precise CCG locations?

Would the HQ at Bad Salzuflen have been located in the Rathaus, perhaps?

Flash

Located with HQ BAOR Kurpark Bad Oeyhausen
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119793045/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Cheers
Steve
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj


Number of posts: 647
Age: 65
Localisation: near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge: Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served: Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date: 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   26/2/2010, 13:48

JPW wrote:
At first sight the vehicle looks like an accurate representation of a military VW which were widely used throughout the then British Zoner of Occupation, certainly the CCG shield is similar to that used by other CCG sponsored organisations such as the Cuxhaven based German Minesweeping Organisation/Administration.

CCG was the British element of the Military Government responsible for all civilan administrative matters following the German Surrender in May 1945. At its height some 26,000 UK Civil Servants were employed, many with a military background. These steadily declined in numbers as responsibilities were gradually transferred to the embryo German departments at local, regional and nation levels as the new Federal structure of Civilian Government was developed throughout Western Germany.

HQ CCG was in Bad Salzuflen, there were Regional HQs in Dusseldorf, Hannover, Kiel and Hamburg and in the 1940s, small detachments in all the major towns throughout the British Zone

It would be interesting to note when the Beetle was built, certainly it is of the immediate post war design (small split rear windows) some of which were still in use by Station Staff Officers in the mid 60s. If it is one of the very early years it could have been produced when VW Wolfsburg was being run by a Management team of serving REME Oficers.

Source The Beetle by Keith Seume
Maj Ivan Hurst and Capt Bryce both REME were part of the team to get the Wolfsburg factory going again 1n Aug 45 this was helped with a British military order (see below) Maj Hurst reported to Col Charles R Radclyffe CBE DSO head of light mechanical engineering in the Military Government Organisation with a HQ at Minden…hope this helps…best regards Steve (petrol head) drunken


Last edited by steve on 26/2/2010, 13:55; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Finger trouble...see below for image)
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj


Number of posts: 647
Age: 65
Localisation: near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge: Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served: Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date: 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   26/2/2010, 13:54

111 Mil Gov Det 17 Sep 45" border="0" alt="" />
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PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   26/2/2010, 16:24

Thanks for you response, Steve.

Unfortunately, your hyperlink will not open for me. Was JPW incorrect when he stated that that HQ CCG was located at Bad Salzuflen (just SE of Herford), then? Or did it change location during its existence?

Bad O is quite a few klicks north of Bad S.

Flash.
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JPW
Maj Gen
Maj Gen


Number of posts: 825
Age: 73
Localisation: Berkshire
Cap Badge: REME
Places Served: Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date: 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   26/2/2010, 16:53

Steve

I have the same problem with the link

I believe the main CCG HQ was in Bad Salzuflen but a number of the senior appointments were double hatted with Senior Army Officers holding Key Post Appointments within the CCG organisation For example CinC BAOR was also The Military Governor British Zone of Occupation in the very early days This would explain the Bad Oeynhausen CCG office but I am still convinced that the main CCG HQ site was Bad Salzuflen and this is corroborated by web input in the form of individual memories.

I have a copy of the 1949 CCG Staff list which is 16 pages long but is unfortunately unsuitable for further reproduction. It does show that in 1949 in addition to the Headquarters I listed in my original contribution that within the Regional Organisation there were in 1949 large CCG offices in other centres as follows
NORD RHEIN WESTFALEN (Regional CCG HQ Dusseldorf)
Subordinate HQ
Aachen, Arnsberg, Detmold, Dusseldorf, Koln and Munster.

NEIDER SACHSEN (Regional CCG HQ Hannover)
Subordinate HQ
Brunswick,Hannover, Luneburg, Oldenburg, Osnabruck and Stade

Clearly there were fewer problems in Schleswig Holstein , everything seems to have been dealt with by the Kiel Offices
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PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   26/2/2010, 17:05

Any idea of the building used as the HQ, JPW?. I don't think that there were any Kaserne in Bad S.

My guess is that they would use something like the Rathaus or one of the grander hotel buildings.

These sort of people did not believe in slumming it.
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj


Number of posts: 647
Age: 65
Localisation: near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge: Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served: Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date: 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   26/2/2010, 17:23

Hi Claymore and JPW
I did not copy what was on the link but remember it was an image of a document dated 1945 clearly stating alongside HQ BAOR who were in the Kurpark Bad Oeyhausenson at that time the HQ must have moved to Bad Salzuflen later on
Best regards
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   26/2/2010, 17:44

There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of stuff on the subject on the web. Perhaps somebody who has first-hand knowledge will pipe up in due course.

I think it'll be worth plotting the location(s) on Google Earth as and when we get verification.

I take it that the CCG existed only while we were still in Germany as an "army of occupation".
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Ian-redcap70
SSgt/CSgt
SSgt/CSgt


Number of posts: 65
Age: 83
Localisation: Brisbane, OZ
Cap Badge: RMP
Places Served: Bielefeld, Colchester
Registration date: 2007-08-16

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   27/2/2010, 19:12

This article on my website may be relevant to this thread:

http://www.redcap70.net/PatColson_VW.pdf

My wife and I visited the VW factory in 1964 and did a tour and I have some pictures somewhere which I'll try and add later.

Very interesting stuff indeed!
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj


Number of posts: 647
Age: 65
Localisation: near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge: Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served: Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date: 2010-02-14

PostSubject: Re: CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY   27/2/2010, 21:31

Hi Recap and all VW fans
Hope this works
Regards
Steve[/img]Photobucket
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CONTROL COMMISSION FOR GERMANY

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