EX GERMAN SERVICEMEN WORKING FOR THE BRITS IN BAOR

G'day again, I thought I would raise the issue of former German servicemen working for the British Forces in BAOR.

I recollect back around 1959 when my father was posted as Chief Clerk to the Station Staff Officer at Dortmund, there was a former U Boat Commander who was an official driver, he sometimes drove us to school and drove my father and other SSO staff around. Told me some stirring WW2 stories of his exploits. Something you remember as a boy. Yes he spoke English. And he was fair dinkum, a former Kapitan Leutnant in the KriegsMarine, during WW2.

Anybody else know of former German servicemen doing work for the Brits?

We had an ex SS Sgt Major working in our MT Section at 20 Armd Bde in 1952. He was notorious for screaming at our lads, in fact he scared the shit out of most of them .. then he met his match when a young Cpl was posted in .. ME .. I heard him doing his daily rant one morning just after I arrived at the Bde Sig Sqn .. it was his LAST rant .. having lost two uncles in WW2 I wasn't inclined to take any rat shit from an ex Nazi .. he was a lot quieter after my run in with him.

Len (Ciphers)

Ciphers..Len, good story...I hope you booted the SS turkey up the backside with your best British Army studded boot.

The SS were evil. Fanatics.

PS you live in a nice part of the world, I was in British Columbia in 2005, Inside Passage cruise, Vancouver, Victoria, Whistler, Butchart Gardens etc. Loved it.

Actually I found with that particular type of person be they German, Brits, Yanks or Canuck, if you bellow right back at them they tend to back off. In early 1952, 4 Sqn, 6 Armd Div (20 Bde Sig Sqn) was, I am sure, manned by the mis fits of the newly formed 6 Armoured Div and as Terry Thomas would say a 'proper shower'. NCO's were drafted in to shape things up, and although I was originally a cipher op, I was a bit of a disciplinarian and was given a virtual free hand within the bounds of Kings Reg's and left to get on with it. Most of the other NCO's were either techies or lived out of camp in the married pads, all good tradesmen but with little interest in discipline, and were seldom seen on Works Parade. We had a great Foreman of Sigs an even greater old sweat by the name of Fred Stork in charge of the MT, he taught me a lot. The SSM was a bit of a Dad type, he was liked but not respected, a SQMS (Stores) who was a bit of a bully and became the SSM and nearly caused a mini mutiny. The remaining NCO's were NS men wanting to get out and were too chummy with the OR's. The saving grace was two great officers, Major Cooper and Lt Fenn. In 1953 the previous mis fits I have mentioned won the Regimental Cup for best all round squadron in 6 Armoured Division. see the attached photo .. note, its funny when there are plaudits to be handed out how the no shows show up. (Cynic)

Len (Ciphers)

Talking about former SS types. My uncle who did both WW 1 and WW 2 was not impressed by the SS. After WW 2 he came out to Manitoba and worked at the mines in Lynn Lake. There appeared in the early 50's a former SS type who was not shy to talk about his SS exploits. Well Uncle found out. He put the word out that Herr SS type was dead meat if he were to be any where near him. Herr SS type checked out the validity of this little bantam rooster of a French Canadian's statement and found out it was not only true what he said but he would act on it. Herr SS all the time he was there made sure he was on the other side of the street when Uncle was around. Incidentally Uncle had his last punch up when he was 68 or 69 in the local Legion in Lynn Lake when some loud mouth doubted his word about wearing the Red Hackle in WW 1. Yup 16 years old and in the Black Watch (Cdn) in the trenches.

Brigader General............................ A bottle of your cheapest port bar tender and a brace of small glasses. Put it on my aid's bar bill.

I always assumed that the GSO bods were ex-German servicemen. Am I right?
They wore a green uniform with typical German style cap.
They used to drive around the camp in a Magirus "Jupiter" truck (it had a bulbous nose, if you see what I mean) quite unlike the "Maggies" we used.

Interesting that former SS were able to land any sort of job with Her Majesty's forces...I'd have thought, knowing the SOBs were former SS, they'd have been investigated and charged.

Yes, yes, I know not all former SS were "war criminals", and I suppose those in the SS rank and file were like any other soldier who signed up for an elite force...proud buggers but just doing a job. But SS?? And if they were former SS officers....well....seems to me there should have been a certain degree of culpability in the horrors we now know the SS had a hand, if not the whole damn arm!, in.

Of course, there were always rumours, and in recent years now confirmed stories, of Nazis landing pretty enviable positions with various military/scientific undertakings in the USA (rocket programs, NASA, nuclear programs, etc). At the time, if the public was at all aware of these guys, they were put out there as merely German scientists with the suggestion they had to work for the Hitler regime or be shot or some such thing. And perhaps a few, maybe even quite a few, were exactly that; just scientists and not political. But others, we have since learned, were in fact card-carrying, voluntary, and active members of NSAP and rather than landing good safe jobs in the US should have ended up in prison, at least!

The Canadians had a few German civilian workers as well and given the era and their age I am now wondering if some of them were not a bit more than merely "German civilian workers."

I do remember a friend of my fathers, Erich. Erich actually pulled a few strings and got all the falderrah around my work and residence visa ironed out right quick like when I went back to Soest in 1973 to work. He had "old air force pals" who were senior bureaucrats in the Soest Kreis Buro (County offices) who fast-tracked the paperwork. After over 6 months of fiddling around with the Consulate back in Canada, getting fed up with that and heading back to Germany anyway, not being able to get my work visa without a residence permit and not being able to get a residence permit without a work visa and a job waiting for me once all that got worked out....bizarre. Dad wrote to Erich, Erich came to see me, gave me some names, and PRESTO!, the paperwork magically got done and I was on my way.....

Anyway, Erich worked for both the Canadians and the Brits as head of the heating plant in Hemer. Nice fellow. Quite elegant and always polite. He always said to mom and dad he was "just a pilot" in the war...certainly no Nazi but one did what one had to do back then and shut up and got on with it. True enough....

Yet, up on top of his schrank in the living room, was this massive oak German eagle clutching a swastika in it's talons. totally illegal of course, but there it was nevertheless, occupying a spot of honour in his home. He dismissed it as simply a "souvenir" of his time in the service, saved it from some officers' club or something, I forget the full story, but mom always suspected -- as much as she liked him and all -- that there was more to Herr Erich than he was letting on. I think that may well have been true. Nice man and all, but yes....most likely a party member etc etc.

Would he have been involved in or responsible for any of the horrors? I really don't think so but by being, assuming he was, a "former Nazi" he was indirectly involved, the stain of all that would seep down onto him too, just by virtue of involvement in and support of The Party....

Remembers Cosby's quip on the Space Race between the US and Russia. If the Russians land a man on the moon first, it just means that your Germans are more clever than our Germans.

So true

The head bus driver for the Canadians in Deilinghofen was in a police battalion in Warsaw. I in my youthful foolishness, asked him if he helped round up Jews. He replied that, 'No he was there as a Criminal Investigation Officer". Kind of wonder about that. He was a nice fellow to know in the 60's, but looking back I really do wonder. I remember last seeing him in 84, retired, sitting in the sun by his little house enjoying one of those small black Brazilian cigars so loved by that generation of Germans and just wondering what sort of memories he was reviewing and not sharing with the likes of me.

Not all Germans in the SS were war criminals, some were in the Polizei Battaillionen of the Sicherheitsdienst (SD), Kriegsmarine (Navy), Heer (Army) or Luftwaffe (Air Force).

Don't forget the Reichsarbeitsdienst and all the other paramilitary forces Germany fielded.

Point is - Britain invented the 'modern' concentration camp in India and South Africa, comitted Genocide (India and many other places) but has distinct hang ups about another nation doing just that.

Digressing from the thread so back on track - I recall 25 TPT & Mov Regt RCT having a German in the QMs who was a Feldweberl (Sgt) in a tank regiment at the battle of Kursk and as I spoke German he told me all the stories of battles on the Russian Front - it was great. One day he didn't turn up for work - he had died and I was so sad. I was 8 or 9 at the time.

in the 50s the old coffee factory in viersen. was rhine sub depot 15 abod. it was a hugh ordnance depot. even had its own railway running through it. a massive factory complex needed a lot of staff. i think there was about 280 raoc bods plus hundreds of german civilians, of the civilian staff quite a big number of them were ex german army men , they made up the bulk of the transport drivers, we never had any trouble with them ,in fact the opposite. we got on well with them .we also had a big contingent of the mso at viersen , they did the guard duty ,all in all a mixed bag but a decent bunch of people germans and all , ginger

hi there,
i recall rumours of ex Nazi's working at the REME base overall barracks in BAOR (i forget the exact location) working and fixing the armoured vehicles as they passed through.......but they were actually sabotaging them ever so slightly !!
it was an opinion as to the even more unreliablity of the chieftain fleet...........not just down to Leyland L60 power pack !!
not sure how true this is............just a memory.
atb
pinky
HUSSAR

got it.......23 base workshop !!

i thought gso were dps displaced people

Lesty !

"RA, Rhyl" ?

Sheldrake & I represent a minority of what was once the biggest Regt in this man's army.

Furnish us with more details about yourself Sir !

The trio is complete...The third stooge has arrived..

Brum

Do you recognise the name Hertage from your days with QOH?

Les

Gordon. wrote:

The trio is complete...The third stooge has arrived..

Hallo SHELLDRAKE this is BRUM

Fire mission one photo

Target Scotsman without underpants

FIRE

Over

Les Pattenden wrote:

Brum

Do you recognise the name Hertage from your days with QOH?

Les

Can't place the name mate but I do have a couple of old journals.

Wait Out.

[quote="brum"]

Gordon. wrote:

The trio is complete...The third stooge has arrived..

Hallo SHELLDRAKE this is BRUM

Fire mission one photo

Target Scotsman without underpants

FIRE

Over[/quote



SHOT


Over

Hi Lesty, I see that you served in Dortmund, did you visit the Nordpol, Hole in the Wall or the Blaue Taverne - lovely spots for cocktails of an evening?

Les Pattenden wrote:

Brum

Do you recognise the name Hertage from your days with QOH?

Les

Just to clarify, Les.

Should that name be "Heritage", as opposed to Hertage ?

I've found a name in the 1990 QOH journal if it is.

Brum

I have just checked and the spelling is HERRTAGE

Les

Les Pattenden wrote:

Brum

I have just checked and the spelling is HERRTAGE

Les

Sorry Les.

Heritage is the best I can come up with.