MILITARY CROSS

G'day back from my adventures cruising around the Med, Atlantic, Central America.

Question: I note on British Army website, Miltary Cross has been awarded to many NCO's in Afghanistan. I always assumed that the MC was for Orficers only? and the equivalant award for OR's was the DCM. What say ye?

The MM was dropped and the MC was made available to all ranks some time ago , Les

Beachley Boy wrote:

G'day back from my adventures cruising around the Med, Atlantic, Central America.

Question: I note on British Army website, Miltary Cross has been awarded to many NCO's in Afghanistan. I always assumed that the MC was for Orficers only? and the equivalant award for OR's was the DCM. What say ye?

I'm pretty sure the DCM was awarded to those who performed acts of great bravery, worthy of the VC but not witnessed by an officer.

From Mr Google

The Distinguished Conduct Medal (DCM) was (until 1993) an extremely high level award for bravery. It was a second level military decoration awarded to other ranks of the British Army and formerly also to non-commissioned personnel of other Commonwealth countries.

The medal was instituted in 1854, during the Crimean War, to recognise gallantry within the other ranks, for which it was equivalent of the Distinguished Service Order (DSO) awarded for bravery to commissioned officers, but the DCM ranked well below the DSO in precedence.

Although considered to be the army's second ranking gallantry award, the DCM was almost always seen as a "near miss for the VC". From 1942, members of the Navy and Air Force were entitled to the award.

In the aftermath of the 1993 review of the honours system, as part of the drive to remove distinctions of rank in awards for bravery, the DCM was discontinued (along with the award of the DSO specifically for gallantry and of the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal). These three decorations were replaced by the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross, which now serves as the second level award for gallantry for all ranks across the whole armed forces.

Bars were awarded to the DCM in recognition of the performance of further acts of gallantry meriting the award. Recipients are entitled to the post-nominal letters DCM.

No mention as to the whereabouts of my LS & GC, Gordon - think it must have been lost in the Post?

equality bites every where.

A DSO was generally awarded to Lieutenant Colonels and above I believe, though I believe there is at least one example where it was awarded to an RSM who took command of his Battalion TAC HQ when all the key players including the CO were either killed or wounded. RSM had attended the O Group and therefore was the only survivor who knew the complete Battalion plan He continues as acting CO for atleast 48 hours whilst the Battalion fought successfully a critical battle

Old style MC was awarded to Majors and below plus Warrant Officers,

The last MM to be awarded was in Iraq 1 when a REME SNCO part of the 16/5th Lancers Battle Group was killed in a soft skinned vehicle was bringing up urgent supplies to his Squadron who were in direct contact with the enemy

When I was doing my basic training at RCASC School Camp Borden a new recruit arrived with DCM and Bar,he was immediately excused basic training and made up to L/Cpl,that was in 1954.In 1955 he was our transport dispatcher in Korea and back to being a private, a nice guy ,not too swift and he never mentioned his decorations,nor did we he was just Stan.

I think a lot of these things are being in the right place at the right time, also getting noticed by the right people, not putting down the medal, but there are usually lots that could be picked for the same thing but not always recognised

Les

A pity no women has ever won the VC although some pretty close having been awarded a GC.
Remember though a mother photographed outside Buckingham Palace during WW2 sporting both a VC and a GC, awarded postumously.

Jimsigs1

I think I should qualify for the LS&GC I know I only did 9yrs regular but stayed on the reserve until they literally said no more, ended up having 26yrs plus in the red book lol

Les

jimsigs1 wrote:

A pity no women has ever won the VC although some pretty close having been awarded a GC.

Jimsigs1

I have a picture I took of the gravestone of a woman who won the MM.

I've never seen anything higher than that.

Brum,

Four women won the GC, 3 in WW2 and one after the war as follows :-

Odette Marie Céline Sansom
Noor Inayat-Khan - posthumous
Violette Reine Elizabeth Szabo - posthumous
Post war :-

Barbara Jane Harrison - posthumously
Air Stewardess 1968, Boeing 707 caught fire taking off from Heathrow

The following ladies won either the Empire Gallantry Medal or Albert Medal which became
eligable for exchange to the George Cross. :-

Joan Daphne Mary Pearson - 1940 Empire Gallantry Medal
Dorothy Louise Thomas - 1934 Empire Gallantry Medal
Emma Jose Townsend - 1932 Empire Gallantry Medal
Florence Alice Allen - 1935 Albert Medal
Doreen Ashburnham - 1916 Albert Medal
Harriet Elizabeth Fraser - 1918 Albert Medal
Margaret Vaughan - 1949 Albert Medal
Hilda Elizabeth Wolsey - 1910 Albert Medal

Jimsigs1

Lcpls Bushbye and Watson, both Female Soldiers serving with the RAMC in Afghanistan, won the MC for bravery.

All very brave women.

Jimsigs1

[quote="jimsigs1"]All very brave women.


Thanks for that, chaps.

Thanks for the replies/info re MC. Takes time for the news to reach OZ. Australia has some of its own military valour awards these days. Although we do retain some of the Imperial awards, VC for one.

It would be interesting to know more about those awards Les ,,,and where they rank among the original imperial awards

Beachley Boy,

I was reading the other of the sad passing away of Googie Withers and noticed she had the OA. Quick Google and it tells me this is your Order of Australia and took the place of the Imperial Orders of the British Empire.

I see also that Australia decided to retain the VC as the pre-eminent gallantry award in the Australian system, only differing by being called the Victoria Cross for Australia. This was approved on 15 January 1991.

Jimsigs1

PS Talking to a fellow the other day and he tells me that your old AAS Chepstow now has the Rifle Regt based at Beachley. My AAS Harrogate is now called Army Foundation College and is an entirely newly built camp on the old site.

It`s been re built twice since you and i were there Jim.

Gordon,

What a change over the years from photo 1 photo 3. I see that the old Cinema building survived into photo 2 but nothing has survived into photo 3.
I was up there in October this year on the Harrogate Reunion as I belong to the Association of Harrogate Apprentices.

Jimsigs1

Gordon,

Do you mind telling me where you obtained photo 1 from and is there a more sharper copy available.

Jimsigs1

I`m told the old cinema is still there Jim.Or was untill recently

Photo 1 is the only one of it`s type that i have come across.And i believe it has been enhanced as far as possible

Gordon,

As far as I know, the old cinema is not there. A lot of us who have made visits over the past few years have remarked on this. Furthermore, if you have a real good look at a blown up Google Map view, there is nothing evident and todays entrance is roughly where the old entrance/guard room was. The old position of the cinema was on the right near the Pennypot Lane when you entered, just behind the old guard room. The RSM's office etc was on the left wasn't it.

Jimsigs1

Gordon. wrote:

It would be interesting to know more about those awards Les ,,,and where they rank among the original imperial awards

General GORDON, mate, this site will tell you all re Australian Defence awards etc:

www.defence.gov.au/medals

I served 6 years in the Australian Citizens Military Forces,1967-1973 (now called Australian Army Reserve )same as your T.A. So I received the Australian Defence Medal for the service.