Fort York

Thinking caps on please

Can anybody identify the location of Fort York

Was it Soest - was it Hemer - or was it somewhere in between??

Paul.

Paul wrote:

Thinking caps on please

Can anybody identify the location of Fort York

Was it Soest - was it Hemer - or was it somewhere in between??

Paul.

Soest!

Thanks for that soprano.

Paul.

Fort York was just outside Bad Sassendorf, actually, just east, down along the B-1, from Soest. It was alongside Fort Chambly.

Knew you would come uo with the goods Stephen

Paul.

Ehehehe...well being a bit of an amateur archivist/historian (glorified pack rat, actually) I have a plethora of trivia stored in this old noggin....

Re Fort York.
I recall in 69/70? doing an Ex at Fort McLoed [ sp] I was with 71a/c wksp at the time, was that near Soest? To cut a long story short, when my wife and I got married in 1972, we spent a night of our honeymoon in the REAL fort McLoed in Alberta.........spooky or what? Ian.

Ian wrote:

Re Fort York.
I recall in 69/70? doing an Ex at Fort McLoed [ sp] I was with 71a/c wksp at the time, was that near Soest? To cut a long story short, when my wife and I got married in 1972, we spent a night of our honeymoon in the REAL fort McLoed in Alberta.........spooky or what? Ian.

Fort McLeod (you were close! LOL) was one of the camps down in Deilinghofen, near Hemer, right alongside Fort Prince of Wales. The two camps near Soest were Fort Chambly and Fort York.

As for spending your honeymoon in the "real" Fort McLeod in Alberta...nice part of the country (I'm in Calgary, Alberta) but Fort McLeod???? Small town Alberta. Not much there. How'd you end up there, especially on a honeymoon? Banff or Jasper, sure (mountains, romantic castle hotels, etc.), but Fort Macleod? Gasp....

I was a CFN in the REME at the time, [ no money] AND we only spent one night there, we actualy spent most of our honeymoon in the crowsnest pass area, mountains, lakes, bears, skunks and snakes. We still travel that way on occasion it is a lovely place.
When I was at BATUS I spent summer weekends playing cricket in Reily [ sp] park in Calgary, It has changed a lot since then, about the only time I get to Calgary these days is on my way to and from the airport. Do you know CFB Suffield?

Ian wrote:

I was a CFN in the REME at the time, [ no money] AND we only spent one night there, we actualy spent most of our honeymoon in the crowsnest pass area, mountains, lakes, bears, skunks and snakes. We still travel that way on occasion it is a lovely place.
When I was at BATUS I spent summer weekends playing cricket in Reily [ sp] park in Calgary, It has changed a lot since then, about the only time I get to Calgary these days is on my way to and from the airport. Do you know CFB Suffield?

The cricket games still occur at Reilly Park.

Oh yes, I know CFB Suffield, although it is a fair hike south of Calgary. I periodically encounter a few squaddies up for a weekend in Calgary.

Now, the Crowsnest Pass area is pretty cool, although I could do without the snakes, thank you very much!! Ick. Bears, sure, leave them alone they'll leave you alone (most of the time). Skunks...well, as long as they don't aim spray at me, I'm fine (and they are kinda cute), but snakes??? Aaaaaagghhh....heck, I'm freaked out by garter snakes (aka garden snakes), let alone rattlesnakes, which is what you probably had up around the Crowsnest. Excuse me, I gotta go and take some meds now to calm my anxiety attack LOL

Just a small note about Fort York. ( I was doing my 2nd tour in Germany in Lahr this time.) I was there in 72 on a shooting competition. We were quartered there. I believe it was a German Airforce base then (Ground to air missile) Probably the last Canadians to stay there. We had a few brews at the Green Shack Gasthof out side Fort Henry, some locals on seeing the Canadian Forcers van pulled in and were all excited thinking the Canadians were coming back. Even now when I was back last year in Deilinghofen, I'm told that the Canadians are missed. Nice to know that.

Ah Medicine Hat, I well remember the sin bin, couldn't spell it for the life of me though.

A quick thought on Fort York. When the Canadians were there it alternated between the RCR or Canadian Guards in who was posted there. When the Cdn. Guards disbanded in 1970 they were re-badged as 3rd Battalion RCR.

Hardrations wrote:

Just a small note about Fort York. ( I was doing my 2nd tour in Germany in Lahr this time.) I was there in 72 on a shooting competition. We were quartered there. I believe it was a German Airforce base then (Ground to air missile) Probably the last Canadians to stay there. We had a few brews at the Green Shack Gasthof out side Fort Henry, some locals on seeing the Canadian Forcers van pulled in and were all excited thinking the Canadians were coming back. Even now when I was back last year in Deilinghofen, I'm told that the Canadians are missed. Nice to know that.

I think I speak for many of us in that we'd LOVE to have DND (Dept. of National Defence) re-establish a NATO presence in Germany, although of course those of us who were either stationed there or whose fathers were are far to old now (!!) to take advantage of that.

It is nice to know the Canadians are missed. At least Deilinghofen put up a "Denkmal" to the Canadians re the hockey thing. There isn't any tangible memorial in Soest at all apart from a couple of street names in the old married quarter area and a small plaque on the wall of the Rathaus.

Hardrations wrote:

Just a small note about Fort York. ( I was doing my 2nd tour in Germany in Lahr this time.) I was there in 72 on a shooting competition. We were quartered there. I believe it was a German Airforce base then (Ground to air missile) Probably the last Canadians to stay there. We had a few brews at the Green Shack Gasthof out side Fort Henry, some locals on seeing the Canadian Forcers van pulled in and were all excited thinking the Canadians were coming back. Even now when I was back last year in Deilinghofen, I'm told that the Canadians are missed. Nice to know that.

Thats be honest the only thing they really miss was all the money we ploughed into their economy!

Well Steph you got a point there, but the Memorial that was mounted originally on the stone wall in front of the Church in Deilinghofen only mentions the 4 Regiments of RCHA and 1 SSM Bty RCA, there is nothing I saw in memory of the QOR's of Canada or the PPCLI. I'm thinking the Artillery probably paid for that item. It's now mounted down near where the hockey rink and power house were, with the memorial to Canadian/German Hockey.

soprano I have to agree with you on the money part, a lot of Germans followed the Canadians down to Lahr I know. Saw a lot of familiar faces when I was posted there. Also saw some Dutch faces I knew from my wasted youth (lovely time was had) in Nijmegen. But still I was lucky to make good friends with locals both there and down in the Lahr area, who really do miss the Canadians as good neighbours to have. Incidentaly I've heard that mentioned in favour of the Brits to.

I agree with Hardrations...while the Canadians and British, and the Belgiques up in Soest, did pump a LOT of money into the local economy (I spent a fortune on beer alone!) and that left, I would think, a huge economic hole once we were all gone, our presence there went beyond that. Many German families rented to Canadians and kept in touch for years after. We were more than some variation of an occupation force, we were a part of many of their lives on a host of levels.

Being there was a major influence in so many of our lives -- a defining period for many of us -- and our being there was likewise a major influence in so many of the locals' lives too.

Soldiers who married local girls, so German families who now have Canadian or British relatives, grandchildren, etc. Childhood/teenage friends who maintained contact or who re-established contact after 20 or 30 years, so much intertwining.

As for the hockey memorials at Deilinghofen....I was aware of the one due to a Google search or some such. I wasn't aware of the memorial mounted on the Deilinghofen church wall (I am assuming here Hardrations is referring to the actual town church rather than one of the two churches located with the barrack precincts. Those are now demolished, or at least one of them is).

I certainly wasn't aware only RCHA (Royal Canadian Horse Artillery) and 1SSM Bty RCA (Royal Canadians) were mentioned and PPCLI (Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry aka Princess Pat's) and QOR of Canada (not familiar with them) were left off/forgotten/snubbed.

When I went back to Soest in 1973 to work I was sad to see very little concrete tangible evidence of our time there. We were there for a generation, after all. The Belgiques in Soest left behind a military museum. At least one Brit stayed behind and opened a business selling English teas and baked goods and handicrafts. The shop is located in behind the Rathaus, across from St. Patrokulus Cathedral. So, there is evidence of their respective times, but very little of the Canadians'. I think that kind of sucks, to be honest.

You're right there Stephen it was on the town church, on the low retaining fence wall around the front of the church. And as I said removed and placed at the hockey memorial. I did have a copy of the final parade in Deilinghofen by the Artillery but will have to dig around for it. I also have photos of the last parade of 1 SSM Bty RCA on their disbanding in 1970 at Fort Quappelle. My bud in Deilinghofen passed those items onto me. Also have a copy of the Iserlohner Zeitung showing the destruction of the Catholic Chapel in Fort McLeod. I gave it to the RCA Museum but scanned it. Incidentally did you know that the RCA Museum in CFB Shilo is a hidden trove of interesting artifacts and information. If you get a chance to visit it, do. Well worth going out of your way to see.

Hardrations wrote:

soprano I have to agree with you on the money part, a lot of Germans followed the Canadians down to Lahr I know. Saw a lot of familiar faces when I was posted there. Also saw some Dutch faces I knew from my wasted youth (lovely time was had) in Nijmegen. But still I was lucky to make good friends with locals both there and down in the Lahr area, who really do miss the Canadians as good neighbours to have. Incidentaly I've heard that mentioned in favour of the Brits to.

I was in one of the last units (3RTR) to leave Hemer, up until the time it was announced that Dielinghofen was to close as a garrison the locals wouldn't give you the time of day. Then they started to kick up a fuss about how much money they were going to lose etc we were even given the Freedom of Hemer!

soprano54 wrote:

Hardrations wrote:

soprano I have to agree with you on the money part, a lot of Germans followed the Canadians down to Lahr I know. Saw a lot of familiar faces when I was posted there. Also saw some Dutch faces I knew from my wasted youth (lovely time was had) in Nijmegen. But still I was lucky to make good friends with locals both there and down in the Lahr area, who really do miss the Canadians as good neighbours to have. Incidentaly I've heard that mentioned in favour of the Brits to.

I was in one of the last units (3RTR) to leave Hemer, up until the time it was announced that Dielinghofen was to close as a garrison the locals wouldn't give you the time of day. Then they started to kick up a fuss about how much money they were going to lose etc we were even given the Freedom of Hemer!

The camps in Deilinghofen were used briefly as a D.P. Camp for Rumanian's for awhile. From what I was told there was a real fuss kicked up over that. Presently they are using some of what's left in Fort McLeod for refuges from the Congo. That doesn't really impress the village to much.

It's interesting the different experiences different folk have had re the local civilian populations.

I'm not sure if British families lived out in civilian housing in the various towns and villages surrounding some of the central postings such as Hemer/Iserlohn, Werl, Soest, Paderborn or other postings the BAOR had to the same extent the Canadians did, but certainly the Canadian experience, by and large, was quite positive when it came to interactions with the local population.

Certainly, there was sometimes some friction between local businesses and The Single (and Bored) Soldier, predictably, and some of the local civilian males had issues with "their women" taking up with soldiers/squaddies etc. Oh well...

I think, too, after a generation of NATO presence, the locals were a bit complacent, perhaps even a tad ambivalent, about our presence and it wasn't until the various pull-outs (i.e. Canadian and BAOR) that they realized what an impact our presence had and what an impact our non-presence would have on the local economy.

Sure, there were elements within the civilian population that had little or no use for foreign military types, and even as a somewhat naive teenage boy I sometimes encountered such people, but overall I'd have to say that was relatively rare.

If there was any "anti-" sentiment of "occupation troops" (which I am sure at least might have been the perception of some locals, and I can't say as I could blame them...it was, after all, their country), it was certainly kept under wraps.

One phenomenon I often witnessed, however, that contributed to civilian animosity/ambivalence was, at least in the case of Canadian families, a disinterest in involving oneself or to even bother learning the language/respecting local customs, etc. Such behaviour would tend to tick folks off.

When we were first posted to Germany, circa 1959-62, my mother noted how shocked the locals would be witnessing the Canadian wives smoking in public, curlers in their hair, etc.

Such things were fine back home, but not in the region we were in during that era. Mom made efforts to respect the local mores and customs (i.e. not hanging laundry out on a saint's day)...she never did wear curlers in her hair when out in public!! She did smoke, however, and soon curtailed that when in public. She rarely, even upon returning to Canada, "smoked on the street."

During both of my postings to Soest I never had any negative reaction from the locals,63-66 was in married quarters,69-70 was on the economy in Wamel Dorf,our landlord was a gentleman and remained a friend until he died, he came to visit us in Woodbridge with his grandson who learned his basic English from the Canadian brats, my daughters learned their basic German from his grandparents.It was an idyllic little village, when my daughter was out with Eberhardt we knew no harm would come to them because there were a hundred unofficial baby sitters looking out for them.

Stephen Lock wrote:

Fort York was just outside Bad Sassendorf, actually, just east, down along the B-1, from Soest. It was alongside Fort Chambly.

Actually, Fort Chambly was the only camp adjacent to Bad Sassendorf off the B1 or Hellweg. It sat on its own and contained 1 Tpt Coy RCASC, 4 Fd Wksp RCEME, 4 OFP RCOC, and a Recce Sqn.

Fort York (Infantry Bn) and Fort Henry (Brigade HQ) were both some distance away from Ft. Chambly, closer to Korbecke in the Mohnesee area, but were still considered to be in Soest.

[[quote="recce83.

Fort York (Infantry Bn) and Fort Henry (Brigade HQ) were both some distance away from Ft. Chambly, closer to Korbecke in the Mohnesee area, but were still considered to be in Soest.[/quote]

The Field Ambulance was also in Fort Chambly. It was originaly in Werl in Fort Ann I believe. Incidentally Fort Chambly is now used to clear people of German descent from Russia, Ukraine and other places to become German citizens again. Not a happy subject to discuss with Germans.

recce83 wrote:

Stephen Lock wrote:

Fort York was just outside Bad Sassendorf, actually, just east, down along the B-1, from Soest. It was alongside Fort Chambly.

Actually, Fort Chambly was the only camp adjacent to Bad Sassendorf off the B1 or Hellweg. It sat on its own and contained 1 Tpt Coy RCASC, 4 Fd Wksp RCEME, 4 OFP RCOC, and a Recce Sqn.

Fort York (Infantry Bn) and Fort Henry (Brigade HQ) were both some distance away from Ft. Chambly, closer to Korbecke in the Mohnesee area, but were still considered to be in Soest.

yes, thanks recce...you are correct. 30 years on and my memory is starting to...uh...starting...uhm....what? Where was I???